CAP Tirades

[Майор Хаткевич]

We need to be in uniforms on a mission. No reason for the uniform to be wrong.

No problem. I just was wondering if anyone had ever done a study on our response time for SAR.  If I was near the airport and got called for a search and then had to spend an hour or more getting back home for my uniform ... I would sure feel guilty if the search was successful, but the 'rescue' was too late. I don't guess thats ever happened ... or was documented at any rate. Fortunately in my area, the police and sheriff's helicopters would be first responders. They can get airborne in mere minutes. We come along after.

We keep detailed records on 'wheels up' and 'starting search' times. Surely Hdqs has done a study at some point on our response time. But it may not be public info, but would be interesting to see and analyze.

YOU may be near your field. The rest of the crew?


We wear uniforms on missions. We don't fly in shorts and tshirts. And yes, a lot of people DO have a uniform in their car, even if it's just a polo/grey slacks.

[etodd]

We wear uniforms on missions. We don't fly in shorts and tshirts.

I'm sure the folks bleeding out in the crash feel all warm and fuzzy knowing their rescuer's boots are all spit polished. 

And yes, a lot of people DO have a uniform in their car, even if it's just a polo/grey slacks.

Good idea and should be common sense, but I've never seen it mentioned in any of the official CAP materials. Needs to be mentioned more, as well as keeping flight bags, headsets, etc. within reach.  I see people talking here about having to go back home first. No one saying "Yes, I'll go" when being called for a mission should ever have to say, "Give me a couple hours to drive home, get dressed, grab my gear and head out to the airport."

[RogueLeader]

What happens when things go wrong, and the plane you are in crashes- and you aren't in uniform.  There goes your insurance and all the nice benefits of the  AFAM go away, just because you couldn't be bothered to follow the regulations that you swore (or affirmed) to uphold.

The first thing that the insurance is going to do is to try to find a way and not pay.

[Storm Chaser]

We need to be in uniforms on a mission. No reason for the uniform to be wrong.

No problem. I just was wondering if anyone had ever done a study on our response time for SAR.  If I was near the airport and got called for a search and then had to spend an hour or more getting back home for my uniform ... I would sure feel guilty if the search was successful, but the 'rescue' was too late. I don't guess thats ever happened ... or was documented at any rate. Fortunately in my area, the police and sheriff's helicopters would be first responders. They can get airborne in mere minutes. We come along after.

We keep detailed records on 'wheels up' and 'starting search' times. Surely Hdqs has done a study at some point on our response time. But it may not be public info, but would be interesting to see and analyze.

That's why it's a good idea to keep a uniform and gear readily available, so that you can quickly respond to a mission.

[Майор Хаткевич]

We need to be in uniforms on a mission. No reason for the uniform to be wrong.

No problem. I just was wondering if anyone had ever done a study on our response time for SAR.  If I was near the airport and got called for a search and then had to spend an hour or more getting back home for my uniform ... I would sure feel guilty if the search was successful, but the 'rescue' was too late. I don't guess thats ever happened ... or was documented at any rate. Fortunately in my area, the police and sheriff's helicopters would be first responders. They can get airborne in mere minutes. We come along after.

We keep detailed records on 'wheels up' and 'starting search' times. Surely Hdqs has done a study at some point on our response time. But it may not be public info, but would be interesting to see and analyze.

That's why it's a good idea to keep a uniform and gear readily available, so that you can quickly respond to a mission.

But you don't understand! Uniforms are pointless! And we need to go NOW! ORM? Who needs that!? There's a 121.5 going off, and someone needs my rescue services NOW!

[Spaceman3750]

If someone is going to bleed out, they probably did so before CAP even got the phone call.

I'm not saying don't act with a sense of urgency, but I am saying that we don't throw the rule book out the window because "someone needs our help". Every emergency response organization has a rule book.

[Ozzy]

I thought the command chief position wasn't one you could promote a SMSgt to fill, you had to have someone already holding CMSgt.  Of course, the secret rules might vary.

Read CAPR 35-5, page 19. Command chief is the national level CMSgt position.  At wing, it is the Senior NCO advisor, at which the temp promote to CMSgt if they meeting the TIG.

[grunt82abn]

If someone is going to bleed out, they probably did so before CAP even got the phone call.

I'm not saying don't act with a sense of urgency, but I am saying that we don't throw the rule book out the window because "someone needs our help". Every emergency response organization has a rule book.

Nice point!!! As a firefighter we always preach scene safety and ORM along with the adage "Risk small to save small, risk big to save big". Not saying that CAP follows this as a responding agency, but SOP's, Policy, and Procedures are in place for a reason, to keep people from getting hurt or killed.

[Майор Хаткевич]

If someone is going to bleed out, they probably did so before CAP even got the phone call.

I'm not saying don't act with a sense of urgency, but I am saying that we don't throw the rule book out the window because "someone needs our help". Every emergency response organization has a rule book.

Nice point!!! As a firefighter we always preach scene safety and ORM along with the adage "Risk small to save small, risk big to save big". Not saying that CAP follows this as a responding agency, but SOP's, Policy, and Procedures are in place for a reason, to keep people from getting hurt or killed.

Yea, I wasn't going to make that point,but what's our typical "call" time? 2-4 hours?

[grunt82abn]

I thought the command chief position wasn't one you could promote a SMSgt to fill, you had to have someone already holding CMSgt.  Of course, the secret rules might vary.

Read CAPR 35-5, page 19. Command chief is the national level CMSgt position.  At wing, it is the Senior NCO advisor, at which the temp promote to CMSgt if they meeting the TIG.

This whole NCO thing still has me confused even after reading the 35-5. I was going to put on NCO stripes, but without any knowledge on the system, I have decided to go the officer route. If the new policy comes out before I hit my 6 month mark, and before I throw on any rank, if I can figure it out, I might go the NCO route and throw Tech Sergeant on. Only time will tell i guess

[grunt82abn]

If someone is going to bleed out, they probably did so before CAP even got the phone call.

I'm not saying don't act with a sense of urgency, but I am saying that we don't throw the rule book out the window because "someone needs our help". Every emergency response organization has a rule book.

Nice point!!! As a firefighter we always preach scene safety and ORM along with the adage "Risk small to save small, risk big to save big". Not saying that CAP follows this as a responding agency, but SOP's, Policy, and Procedures are in place for a reason, to keep people from getting hurt or killed.

Yea, I wasn't going to make that point,but what's our typical "call" time? 2-4 hours?

Maybe even longer!!! it's not like we have to follow DoD ART times and be out the door in less than 2 minutes from callout

[Ozzy]

Read CAPR 35-5, page 19. Command chief is the national level CMSgt position.  At wing, it is the Senior NCO advisor, at which the temp promote to CMSgt if they meeting the TIG.

This whole NCO thing still has me confused even after reading the 35-5. I was going to put on NCO stripes, but without any knowledge on the system, I have decided to go the officer route. If the new policy comes out before I hit my 6 month mark, and before I throw on any rank, if I can figure it out, I might go the NCO route and throw Tech Sergeant on. Only time will tell i guess

I'll let you know how it goes. I'm in the process of rejoining after leaving for a few years and I'm planning on going the NCO route. I'm not sure how the dates work for rejoining... perhaps someone can let me know?

[Майор Хаткевич]

If someone is going to bleed out, they probably did so before CAP even got the phone call.

I'm not saying don't act with a sense of urgency, but I am saying that we don't throw the rule book out the window because "someone needs our help". Every emergency response organization has a rule book.

Nice point!!! As a firefighter we always preach scene safety and ORM along with the adage "Risk small to save small, risk big to save big". Not saying that CAP follows this as a responding agency, but SOP's, Policy, and Procedures are in place for a reason, to keep people from getting hurt or killed.

Yea, I wasn't going to make that point,but what's our typical "call" time? 2-4 hours?

Maybe even longer!!! it's not like we have to follow DoD ART times and be out the door in less than 2 minutes from callout

I'm thinking not our spool up time, but the AFRCC call time. From the moment they get the first ping, how soon do they call us?

[Holding Pattern]

If someone is going to bleed out, they probably did so before CAP even got the phone call.

I'm not saying don't act with a sense of urgency, but I am saying that we don't throw the rule book out the window because "someone needs our help". Every emergency response organization has a rule book.

Nice point!!! As a firefighter we always preach scene safety and ORM along with the adage "Risk small to save small, risk big to save big". Not saying that CAP follows this as a responding agency, but SOP's, Policy, and Procedures are in place for a reason, to keep people from getting hurt or killed.

Yea, I wasn't going to make that point,but what's our typical "call" time? 2-4 hours?

Maybe even longer!!! it's not like we have to follow DoD ART times and be out the door in less than 2 minutes from callout

I'm thinking not our spool up time, but the AFRCC call time. From the moment they get the first ping, how soon do they call us?

A wing/unit activation policy helps send out warnings to members of a possible activation. These days it is easier than ever to set up a distribution list that will fire off a short message via SMS, IM and email at the same time with the pertinent data to get a person moving.

[grunt82abn]

Read CAPR 35-5, page 19. Command chief is the national level CMSgt position.  At wing, it is the Senior NCO advisor, at which the temp promote to CMSgt if they meeting the TIG.

This whole NCO thing still has me confused even after reading the 35-5. I was going to put on NCO stripes, but without any knowledge on the system, I have decided to go the officer route. If the new policy comes out before I hit my 6 month mark, and before I throw on any rank, if I can figure it out, I might go the NCO route and throw Tech Sergeant on. Only time will tell i guess

I'll let you know how it goes. I'm in the process of rejoining after leaving for a few years and I'm planning on going the NCO route. I'm not sure how the dates work for rejoining... perhaps someone can let me know?

I know it is splitting hairs, but I have a hard time convincing myself to put on officer rank after being a NCO for so long. I know it's all in my head, and it shouldn't be a big deal to me because this is CAP, but it just doesn't feel right having people salute me and call me sir all the time. Every time a cadet calls me Sir, I turn around and look for an officer behind me. Thank you US Army for totally brain washing me!!!

[grunt82abn]

If someone is going to bleed out, they probably did so before CAP even got the phone call.

I'm not saying don't act with a sense of urgency, but I am saying that we don't throw the rule book out the window because "someone needs our help". Every emergency response organization has a rule book.

Nice point!!! As a firefighter we always preach scene safety and ORM along with the adage "Risk small to save small, risk big to save big". Not saying that CAP follows this as a responding agency, but SOP's, Policy, and Procedures are in place for a reason, to keep people from getting hurt or killed.

Yea, I wasn't going to make that point,but what's our typical "call" time? 2-4 hours?

Maybe even longer!!! it's not like we have to follow DoD ART times and be out the door in less than 2 minutes from callout

I'm thinking not our spool up time, but the AFRCC call time. From the moment they get the first ping, how soon do they call us?

A wing/unit activation policy helps send out warnings to members of a possible activation. These days it is easier than ever to set up a distribution list that will fire off a short message via SMS, IM and email at the same time with the pertinent data to get a person moving.

I'm way to new to have been on a callout, but realistically, what is a normal time from notification to on scene time?

[Holding Pattern]

If someone is going to bleed out, they probably did so before CAP even got the phone call.

I'm not saying don't act with a sense of urgency, but I am saying that we don't throw the rule book out the window because "someone needs our help". Every emergency response organization has a rule book.

Nice point!!! As a firefighter we always preach scene safety and ORM along with the adage "Risk small to save small, risk big to save big". Not saying that CAP follows this as a responding agency, but SOP's, Policy, and Procedures are in place for a reason, to keep people from getting hurt or killed.

Yea, I wasn't going to make that point,but what's our typical "call" time? 2-4 hours?

Maybe even longer!!! it's not like we have to follow DoD ART times and be out the door in less than 2 minutes from callout

I'm thinking not our spool up time, but the AFRCC call time. From the moment they get the first ping, how soon do they call us?

A wing/unit activation policy helps send out warnings to members of a possible activation. These days it is easier than ever to set up a distribution list that will fire off a short message via SMS, IM and email at the same time with the pertinent data to get a person moving.

I'm way to new to have been on a callout, but realistically, what is a normal time from notification to on scene time?

There is no "normal" time because every squadron is different.

But to use myself as an example, I work 5 minutes away from my home, and both work and home are 15-20 minutes away from the airport where our squadron meets. I also have more leeway than most people as I have my own office with a closet. I could realistically change at my office if I keep a spare uniform there (I don't have the spare cash for that yet. Also, ABU rollout... so waiting on that.)

Add a 15-30 minute buffer for a callout during rush hour.

Depending on timing and assets in place, the callout can be much faster (like the time we got a call as people were prepping for our regular meeting. That must have been a record!)

[grunt82abn]

If someone is going to bleed out, they probably did so before CAP even got the phone call.

I'm not saying don't act with a sense of urgency, but I am saying that we don't throw the rule book out the window because "someone needs our help". Every emergency response organization has a rule book.

Nice point!!! As a firefighter we always preach scene safety and ORM along with the adage "Risk small to save small, risk big to save big". Not saying that CAP follows this as a responding agency, but SOP's, Policy, and Procedures are in place for a reason, to keep people from getting hurt or killed.

Yea, I wasn't going to make that point,but what's our typical "call" time? 2-4 hours?

Maybe even longer!!! it's not like we have to follow DoD ART times and be out the door in less than 2 minutes from callout

I'm thinking not our spool up time, but the AFRCC call time. From the moment they get the first ping, how soon do they call us?

A wing/unit activation policy helps send out warnings to members of a possible activation. These days it is easier than ever to set up a distribution list that will fire off a short message via SMS, IM and email at the same time with the pertinent data to get a person moving.

I'm way to new to have been on a callout, but realistically, what is a normal time from notification to on scene time?

There is no "normal" time because every squadron is different.

But to use myself as an example, I work 5 minutes away from my home, and both work and home are 15-20 minutes away from the airport where our squadron meets. I also have more leeway than most people as I have my own office with a closet. I could realistically change at my office if I keep a spare uniform there (I don't have the spare cash for that yet. Also, ABU rollout... so waiting on that.)

Add a 15-30 minute buffer for a callout during rush hour.

Depending on timing and assets in place, the callout can be much faster (like the time we got a call as people were prepping for our regular meeting. That must have been a record!)

Not bad!!!

[Holding Pattern]

That being said, there are circumstances that in theory could make things much longer, from stalled trains to snarled traffic jams. Or just Murphy playing with our scheduled lives.

[etodd]

I'm thinking not our spool up time, but the AFRCC call time. From the moment they get the first ping, how soon do they call us?

I would think that in many cases the biggest delay might be from the time that a farmer calls 911 to say he saw a plane looking like it was going down behind the hills in the distance .... to the time AFRCC actually gets called.  Here in my area the first responders would be police and sheriff helicopters. I do not have a clue as to how long they search before calling up AFRCC(?)