USMC OCS

[Майор Хаткевич]

Has anyone had experience with the OCS 10 week program?

I stopped by the USMC OCS offices in my building today, and was surprised to find out that for 10 weeks you get evaluated on Leadership potential, academics and pt, while getting paid at an E-5 level. If you pass, great! Get your degree and then you can choose to take a commission or turn it down.

I'm doing my own research, but I want to see how much of that is potential smokescreen and how much is true.

If this is in the wrong section, I apologize.

[Flying Pig]

 Going to OCS isnt a try out period to see if you like it or if they like you.  OCS is officer boot camp at Quantico to make you a Marine 2Lt.  If you get accepted to OCS, you essetially HAVE accepted a commission, now you are just trying to prove you deserve it.  You need your degree to apply to OCS. You don't go, see if you like it,  and then get your degree. Because after OCS, you go the "Basic Course" and then off to your MOS training.  Its not a smoke screen, I think you just misread/misunderstood the process.

Unless OCS has DRASTICALLY changed since I was in.  Are you in college?  Because you may be talking about Platoon Leaders Course, which is something for college students over their summer breaks.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Going to OCS isnt a try out period to see if you like it or if they like you.  OCS is officer boot camp at Quantico to make you a Marine 2Lt.  If you get accepted to OCS, you essetially HAVE accepted a commission, now you are just trying to prove you deserve it.  You need your degree to apply to OCS. You don't go, see if you like it,  and then get your degree. Because after OCS, you go the "Basic Course" and then off to your MOS training.  Its not a smoke screen, I think you just misread/misunderstood the process.

Unless OCS has DRASTICALLY changed since I was in.  Are you in college?  Because you may be talking about Platoon Leaders Course, which is something for college students over their summer breaks.

I'm in college, and know about the PLC for Frosh-Sophomores and the OCS program for Junior-Grad group.

Now, what I'm trying to find out is if the Gunny was misinterpreting some info for me. What he said is that OCS isn't a done deal as to the commissioning. IF I'm still in college, then obviously I don't get a commission until I get my degree, and what the Gunny said is that a month before graduation, they contact the student again, and they can either accept to commission or not.

This is more or less the info I want to get clarification on.

Edit:

"I'm no expert on the Marines, but what you seem to be talking about isthe Platoon Leaders Course. (It only took me about 30 seconds to findthis information through Yahoo Search.) As long as you don't accept theoffer of Tuition Assistance you can turn down the offer of acommission. If you sign-up for OCS you are committed to the US MarineCorps.

"Upon completion of the first summer training session, applicants maybegin receiving a $150 per month (tax free) stipend. Upon completingtheir 4-year degree, applicants are commissioned as 2nd Lieutenants inthe United States Marine Corps. Unless one accepts tuition assistanceunder the program, there is no obligation to join the United StatesMarines after completion of the course. However, there is also noobligation on the part of the Marine Corps to offer a commission uponcompletion of the course (although, unless one totally screws up, theyusually do)."

Is this part true?

[Pylon]

You'll get an excellent gouge over at www.marineocs.com in their forums.  Just be sure to post an introduction first, otherwise you'll get a dogpile.

If you already have your degree completed, you can go through the 10-week OCC (Officer Candidates Course) at OCS.  It is true and is not a smokescreen that if and when you graduate OCS, that you have the option to decide whether or not you wish to commission into the Corps.  You have up to approximately 12 months to decide, but obviously many choose to commission immediately and do so in a separate ceremony shortly after OCS graduation. 

Once you decide to commission, you'll be scheduled for the approx. 6-month TBS (The Basic School) where you'll learn basic infantry and small unit leadership skills.  There is currently a backup/waiting list for new LT's going to TBS.  Many 2dLt's graduating OCS are waiting 6+ months to get picked up for TBS.  You will likely not get paid during the downtime before you report to TBS, unless you can get a (often competitive) PTAD job basically helping out at your hometown OSO's office.  After TBS, you'll report to additional training school for your MOS.  You rank and stack your MOS choices in TBS and there's an elaborate process that determines who gets which MOS slots, based on class standing (within your third of the class), your preferences and the needs of the Corps.  The most competitive slot according to some (though also the MOS with the most slots) is the coveted Infantry Officer MOS (0311).  If you go 0311, expect to go to the 10-week IOC (Infantry Officer's Course) after TBS.  Again, there may be a wait between TBS and IOC or your other school depending on how many LTs are going through at the time.  Reports from those currently going through OCC 203 indicate that the previously typical starting class size of 150 officer candidates is now possibly in the 200-250 range.

Also, keep in mind you have the option to go SMCR (Selective Marine Corps Reserve) or active duty when you apply for OCS.  You'll need to know ahead of time if you want to do Reserves or active duty.  The training money comes from different pots, the positions and selection process are different, and word on the streets is that the Reserves are hurting for more officers.  If you go the Reserves route, you will have the option to do one year on active duty in your primary MOS after completing all of your schools.  This will give you some time to learn your job and get some quality OJT in the FMF.   Lastly on this item, keep in mind that once you decide, you cannot switch midway through your commitment.  Reserve officers cannot opt to switch to active duty and vice versa until their existing obligation is up.

But yeah, check out marineocs.com.  Good luck!

[Майор Хаткевич]

Thanks for the info.

It seemed like too much to be true, but I guess the intel the Gunny had was better than the Army Master Sergeant had for me regarding 68W.

[flyguy06]

Going to OCS isnt a try out period to see if you like it or if they like you.  OCS is officer boot camp at Quantico to make you a Marine 2Lt.  If you get accepted to OCS, you essetially HAVE accepted a commission, now you are just trying to prove you deserve it.  You need your degree to apply to OCS. You don't go, see if you like it,  and then get your degree. Because after OCS, you go the "Basic Course" and then off to your MOS training.  Its not a smoke screen, I think you just misread/misunderstood the process.

Unless OCS has DRASTICALLY changed since I was in.  Are you in college?  Because you may be talking about Platoon Leaders Course, which is something for college students over their summer breaks.

You're correct Robert. You go to OCS already with a four year degree. Then go to the Basic School (TBS) for six months then to your MOS school

[Flying Pig]

Just for clarification, Marine Infantry Officers are 0302's.   0311's are Marine Rifleman.  I was an 0331, Infantry Machine Gunner. 0341 Mortarman, 0351, Dragons, 0352 TOW Gunner, and so on.....  I was led by some amazing men who I swear were genetic mutants.  But there is nothing funnier than watching a brand new butter bar lecture a group of NCOs on "how its done".

Im curious what drew you to be a Marine Officer? What MOS are you interested in? In your post you almost made it sound like you were looking for a summer job getting E-5 pay with no commitment.

My personal opinion.....
I think the $$ would be much better served allowing some motivated, proven Marine NCO attend a 10 week PLC than allowing some college student.  I still think the Marines should do Breveret Commissions, but thats just me. Id like to see the Marines commission more NCOs and just require them to finish their degrees in a certain amount of time vs recruiting and paying for some kid who is probably still living at home.
You have a Marine who may have a Purple Heart, Silver Star, Navy Cross, with combat leadership experience, but until he finishes up his degree in Geology, he isn't qualified.  But what do I know, I was only an 8 year Marine Infantryman. I dont think I ever saw anyone degree come into play.  Except a Cobra pilot who had a degree in Military History who was our Forward Air Controller.
I looked into OCS as a Marine Sgt. but didnt have my degree.  This is before everyone had internet.  I was told, sorry, no degree, you cant apply, only to watch a brand new E-3 get scooped up because he had his Bachelors.  I asked "Im in the Infantry, we are gone all the time, how the heck an I supposed to work on a degree?"  Oh well thats my sad story.

I never went the officer route, so I will refrain from any advice as mine is a few years old.

[Pylon]

I think the $$ would be much better served allowing some motivated, proven Marine NCO attend a 10 week PLC than allowing some college student.  I still think the Marines should do Breveret Commissions, but thats just me. Id like to see the Marines commission more NCOs and just require them to finish their degrees in a certain amount of time vs recruiting and paying for some kid who is probably still living at home.
You have a Marine who may have a Purple Heart, Silver Star, Navy Cross, with combat leadership experience, but until he finishes up his degree in Geology, he isn't qualified.  But what do I know, I was only an 8 year Marine Infantryman. I dont think I ever saw anyone degree come into play.  Except a Cobra pilot who had a degree in Military History who was our Forward Air Controller.

I never went the officer route, so I will refrain from any advice as mine is a few years old.

Actually from what I hear there are quite a few prior enlisted, including NCOs and even Staff NCOs going through OCS.  Several recent OCS grads told me of several SSgts and a GySgt in their graduating OCC.  Plus, with the Marine Corps Enlisted Commissioning Education Program (MECEP) program, which will send Marines to college full-time while getting paid; on top of the Enlisted Commissioning Program (ECP); and BOOST, to help Marines qualify for ECP, MECEP, and the prep school, it would seem to me that there are quite a few avenues enlisted Marines could choose to pursue if they wished to become an officer.  And from what I've heard and read, there are solid numbers of Marines who do take advantage.


Edit to Add:

Id like to see the Marines commission more NCOs and justrequire them to finish their degrees in a certain amount of time

Also, through the ECP, Marines who have worked to a certain number of college credits can go to OCS and then have 18 months to wrap up their degrees.  Then once they finish, they commission and can go to TBS.

[PA Guy]

It has been a long time since I went but here are a few thoughts.

First, find an OSO (Officer Selection Officer) recruiter.  They have the straight dope for officer programs.  The gen recruiters deal with recruiting enlisted folks.

Marine OCS is a screening process.  Your education as an officer really begins at TBS.

Marine OCS is all about being in outstanding physical condition when you arrive.  Unlike boot camp there is no build up period.  If you aren't scoring in the area of 275 on the PT test before you get there it will be very difficult to catch up. They will not recycle you for PT failure.

The academics are no big deal if you have graduated from college.  However, if you aren't doing well with the physical part plus the stress they put on you they can be a killer.

They absolutely positively mess with your head. I don't care how good you think you are they will find your weak points and exploit them. This isn't pretty or glamorous so get that out of your mind. I've seen law school graduates sit down on the Hill Trail and cry like a baby out of frustration.

If I were to do it over again I would probably go the PLC route.  I think it offers more flexibility.

[Flying Pig]

There probably are now which is excellent.  Ive been out a while.  I would hate to see combat experience lost because a guy doesnt have a degree.
Back then, 1994,  the Regimental Commander and the Regiment Sgt Maj came to our unit once and gave a huge speech about enlisted Marines wanting to become officers. Afterward, they invited the enlisted to go to a lecture hall to hear a more detailed presentation if we were interested.  Myself and another NCO went.  Both bald white guys.   The female (Hispanic) Marine 1Lt. at the door asked us what we needed.  When we told her, "Ma'am, we are here for the OCS presentation." She said, "Oh this is specifically for minority Marines that are interested.  You can check with your career counselors later if you Marines are interested."  My partner responded, "Ma'am, in Boot Camp we were told the only color the Marine Corps sees is green."  She responded, "Like I said, you can check with your career counselors."  Ill admit, I really never checked back.  Shortly thereafter, I was forced to sit through a day long workshop called "Harnessing the Rainbow and Celebrating Diversity" in the same lecture hall.
(Marine Corps Security Force Company, Yorktown, VA 3rd Sq, 3rd Platoon if anyone thinks I made up that story)

I would imagine now with being able to have complete online degrees available, getting your degree done should be pretty easy.  Of course, back then, my GI BIll was $12,000 and there were not a whole lot of night courses available to deployed Infantryman.

[Rodriguez]

Im lookin for some calrification on this,

I want to apply for the NROTC scholorship (marine option) durring my senior year in high school. Im currently a junior. Lets say I dont get it, am I automaticly enlisted? Which I dont have a problem with but I would just like to know.

[Spike]

Im lookin for some calrification on this,

I want to apply for the NROTC scholorship (marine option) durring my senior year in high school. Im currently a junior. Lets say I dont get it, am I automaticly enlisted? Which I dont have a problem with but I would just like to know.

You don't get what?  You never "enlist" until you accept a scholarship.  If you decide to drop out while on Scholarship or are not offered a Commission your last year of ROTC, you either are forced to pay back the money, or ordered to Active Duty as an enlisted Marine/ Sailor. 

So read the contracts carefully!

[Flying Pig]

Im lookin for some calrification on this,

I want to apply for the NROTC scholorship (marine option) durring my senior year in high school. Im currently a junior. Lets say I dont get it, am I automaticly enlisted? Which I dont have a problem with but I would just like to know.

I believe you have to commit to a particular service in your Junior year of college. A friend of mine accepted an NROTC scholarship, but in his Junior year decided to go AF and switched.  He is now an AF Major flying on an AWACS.  Not sure of the details of how he did it though.

[flyguy06]

If you dont accept the scholorship you are not automatically enlisted. If you accpet it and fail out then like was said b4 you either have to pay the money back or enlist

[Майор Хаткевич]

Im curious what drew you to be a Marine Officer? What MOS are you interested in? In your post you almost made it sound like you were looking for a summer job getting E-5 pay with no commitment.

Obviously as a CAP cadet I have an interest in the military. Back in 07, when I was a Junior in high school I really wanted to get into the military.

I couldn't become an officer since I wasn't a citizen, and wouldn't be able to apply until 2008, after I graduated high school (did that gig in 3 years).

I couldn't become a warrant officer (I was into the Army at this point), because I was 17 and not a citizen.

I COULD enlist, and decided to do that.  Took the ASVAB 10 days after turning 17 and had a 90% as well as all scores 124 and up, which more than qualified me for pretty much any job.
The kicker? Since I wasn't a citizen I got to choose from 10-15 MOS. My top three came to Infantry, Combat Engineer, Combat Medic. Infantry was out since that was my mothers only condition for signing the papers. A Combat Engineer told me to look for a different MOS. So that left me with Combat Medic.

At the time that came with a 17K enlistment bonus, but I wasn't doing it for the money. The final slap in the face though, was the fact that I didn't qualify for the bonus since...I'm not a citizen.

Nevertheless, I went to MEPS and had a 68W Contract with an Airborne option. (And that was one awkward test to be allowed to select it! What does my anus have to do with my ability to jump out of Air Planes!?!?)

Prior to shipping I went to visit friends and family in Europe, and there came upon an opportunity to go to college in England. Having re-evaluated the reasons I wanted to join the Army, I realized that they weren't good for my family, me, or the Army.

Oxford turned me down, and Cambridge refused to offer me the European Student Tuition rate, so I ended up working for a year (what would have been my Senior year in high school).

During that time I got accepted into DePaul University in Chicago, and got engaged to my fiancee. We now live in an apartment, have a dog, and I work full time while going to school full time.

Today, any decision about military service isn't up to just me anymore, and I have others to consider as well as ask for opinions.

Having no chance at ROTC in college due to my work schedule and all night classes, the only way for me to commission left is OCS, OTS, etc.

I looked into the AF process, and actually went to the AF office before the USMC office. I looked into the Army process, but at this time I'm not sure if a Combat Arms Commision is something I want to persue, and would need to have quite a few discussions about it with my significant other. Not to mention that if you flunk out of the Army process, your basic training comes in useful as a disgruntled enlisted soldier.

So, after all that, I go to the USMC office, and talk to a Gunnery Sergeant who tells me that not only is their OCS available to current students and not only post-grads, but that this isn't really when they make you an officer, only make a decision whether you could cut it as one. The structure of the program, and the goals not only make sense, but I wonder why the other services don't do the same.

The pay is nice, I believe an E-5 makes more than an O-1, but obviously I wouldn't go to a 10 week course JUST for the pay. What it would be nice for though is covering the pay I'd loose at my regular job while gone (and int he long run, I'd be down 2-3K after the 10 weeks as is). That said, the folder I got from the Gunny had a flier that called the PLC a paid internship.

So why do I want to be a Marine officer? Honestly, I didn't consider the Marines up until yesterday when I got to talk to that Sergeant. Why I don't know, maybe because I didn't think I could cut it? For whatever reasons, becoming an officer has been a goal of mine, and while I am showing interest in this program, I'm still researching and am not sure if it is what I want to do.

The reason I asked about the non-commitment was to verify what I heard from the OCS recruiter. What If I was to go, pass the course, but decide that it really isn't something that is right for me? Wouldn't it serve the Corps better if I chose to decline a commission instead of taking it or even worse, being forced into it while knowing it's really not a right fit for me?

And as for taking a slot from a qualifing NCO, if it was down to that, then I would need to be [darn] sure that I want this before even considering. However the OCS process a prior enlisted goes through is not the same one I would go to. The only people I'm competing against are other college students.

[Spike]

You really need to find a Marine Officer that has gone through this to speak to.

[Pylon]

You really need to find a Marine Officer that has gone through this to speak to.

Hence, my recommendation for the OP to check out www.marineocs.com.  Plenty of returned officer-candidates-become-lieutenants there to answer questions, proffer advice, and speak about their experiences.

[O-Rex]

Sounds like Platoon Leader's Class (PLC) which is split between two summers with 10 week sessions each.

[Flying Pig]

Going to OCS isnt a try out period to see if you like it or if they like you.  OCS is officer boot camp at Quantico to make you a Marine 2Lt.  If you get accepted to OCS, you essetially HAVE accepted a commission, now you are just trying to prove you deserve it.  You need your degree to apply to OCS. You don't go, see if you like it,  and then get your degree. Because after OCS, you go the "Basic Course" and then off to your MOS training.  Its not a smoke screen, I think you just misread/misunderstood the process.

Unless OCS has DRASTICALLY changed since I was in.  Are you in college?  Because you may be talking about Platoon Leaders Course, which is something for college students over their summer breaks.

[flyguy06]

Sounds like Platoon Leader's Class (PLC) which is split between two summers with 10 week sessions each.

I thought PLC was two six week seesions or one ten week session.