Felons Supervising Minors: Is It Legal?

[Eagle400]

You guys aint gonna believe this, but...

We had a nitwit who tried to get into CAP but was rejected because of several felony convictions.

He is a "Colonel" in the Ranger Corps, and has teenagers over to his house almost every weekend for "Training."

It never ends.

Captain "Moderanger" locked the Empire Stikes Back thread, so I have to post this over here. 

Allowing a felon to supervise and be in a position of authority over minors has got to be illegal.  Can anything be done about this?  In my eyes, this goes beyond creating an appearance of impropriety, and crosses the boundary of legality. 

Flying Pig, JohnKachenmeister, and others with police experience, please help me out.

[mikeylikey]

You guys ain't gonna believe this, but...

We had a nitwit who tried to get into CAP but was rejected because of several felony convictions.

He is a "Colonel" in the Ranger Corps, and has teenagers over to his house almost every weekend for "Training."

It never ends.

Captain "Moderanger" locked the Empire Stikes Back thread, so I have to post this over here. 

Allowing a felon to supervise and be in a position of authority over minors has got to be illegal.  Can anything be done about this?  In my eyes, this goes beyond creating an appearance of impropriety, and crosses the boundary of legality. 

Flying Pig, JohnKachenmeister, and others with police experience, please help me out.

Actually a lawyer would be more able to help out.  Specifically one from your own State.

Remember some Felonies in our legal system vary by state.  A felony for passing 3 bad checks in Tennessee is only a minor misdemeanor in Pennsylvania. 

Felons are not all rapists, murderers, child molesters or deviants.  PLUS don't forget Felony convictions may or may not carry prison time, it may only be a fine.  (reference the Stolen Valor Act).

Then you get into the situation where a child is charged with felony theft when they are twelve, but now that they are 40, and a parent and conscious minded good citizen, is it really relevant. 

That is why CAP NHQ will look at all felons before stamping an "automatic" membership denied stamp on the application.

Heck.....they let felons in the military, and I even once had a 2LT who had a felony DUI conviction, but was waivered. 

People make mistakes in their lives, to be blackballed because of it until they die is not the reason we have a justice system.

(Mikey was pre-law at Penn State for 3 years before he decided business would be a better major, PLUS I loved the TV series JAG, and wanted to be an AF or ARMY JAG......but then I work-shadowed some of them while in ROTC, and decided, I would rather not shuffle papers my entire career).  I do have a minor in Business Law though.     

[CadetProgramGuy]

You guys aint gonna believe this, but...

We had a nitwit who tried to get into CAP but was rejected because of several felony convictions.

He is a "Colonel" in the Ranger Corps, and has teenagers over to his house almost every weekend for "Training."

It never ends.

Captain "Moderanger" locked the Empire Stikes Back thread, so I have to post this over here. 

Allowing a felon to supervise and be in a position of authority over minors has got to be illegal.  Can anything be done about this?  In my eyes, this goes beyond creating an appearance of impropriety, and crosses the boundary of legality. 

Flying Pig, JohnKachenmeister, and others with police experience, please help me out.

I guess my first question would be what was the felony?  From there we can better decide.

[Eagle400]

You make some excellent points, Mikey.

However, to allow someone charged with several felony convictions to join an organization where they are able to supervise minors and be in a position of authority over minors does not seem right.

[mikeylikey]

^ Its all relative to what the person actually did.  Rape, murder, molestation......ya, not a supper candidate for CAP.  Passing 12 bad checks to keep the lights on for the family 25 years ago when you lost your job and getting a felony conviction that carried a fine, might be a candidate.

PLUS.....just because someone has not been convicted of grievous acts, does not mean they are not a bad guy.  CAP needs a better investigations system into backgrounds.  I would support the AF running everyone through the Secret Security clearance program.  Last estimate to run a person through SF86 was $145.00.  Then we can start getting our Officers cleared for more sensitive missions at the same time as well. 

Heck I think that American Cadet Army Cadet Alliance thing program does a better background check on prospective members.   

[Pylon]

It also depends whether or not they later receive a "Dispensation from Civil Liabilities" after their conviction.  Makes a big difference.

And +1 for what mikey said.  It's all relative.

[JoeTomasone]

Plus if he passed those theoretical 12 bad checks in bunches of 3 on 4 separate occasions, that might be a felony each time - making "several" felonies.  Who knows??

[Eagle400]

That's weird, less than a minute ago my last two posts said "blah blah blah."

I think someone has hacked into my account.  Mods?  

[Pylon]

That's weird, less than a minute ago my last two posts said "blah blah blah."

I think someone has hacked into my account.  Mods?   

What?  I don't see it.

[Eagle400]

That's weird, less than a minute ago my last two posts said "blah blah blah."

I think someone has hacked into my account.  Mods?   

What?  I don't see it.

I swear, it was there a minute ago.

Weird.

[Pylon]

That's weird, less than a minute ago my last two posts said "blah blah blah."

I think someone has hacked into my account.  Mods?   

What?  I don't see it.

I swear, it was there a minute ago.

Weird.

Taken to PM.  Sorry for the thread sidetrack.

[Eagle400]

Taken to PM.  Sorry for the thread sidetrack.

No worries.

PM received and reply sent.

[CadetProgramGuy]

That's weird, less than a minute ago my last two posts said "blah blah blah."

I think someone has hacked into my account.  Mods?   

What?  I don't see it.

I swear, it was there a minute ago.

Weird.

I see it, tried to quote it

[Eagle400]

I see it, tried to quote it.

Did you happen to grab a screenshot of it by any chance?

[DNall]

I can see waivering a person in with a past felony in that bad check kind of category, but multiple felonies is a problem, not so much for supervision of kids, but in terms of complying with rules. It indicates that when things get tight this person has a history of intentionally putting aside the rules to do what benefits them. That wouldn't be acceptable in the military, and they got the UCMJ to do something about it if the guy misbehaves, CAP doesn't have any recourse.

Far as SF86, which is EPSQ now, for $145 per... that's not something we can do on the front end just base on costs. We do a national agency check now, I'd add the local check to be done locally & attached to the application. Put new members on probationary status for a period. Then lets look at getting clearances on people after a couple years, or in conjunction with aircrew & certain other positions (comm, IC, GBD/AOBD/OSC/PSC, etc). We should be able to get some funding to keep that cost down too. Secret just has to be redone what every 10 years? And honestly there's not a whole lot more to it then the above plus a credit check.

[CadetProgramGuy]

I see it, tried to quote it.

Did you happen to grab a screenshot of it by any chance?

Sorry, but no

[RRLE]

I would support the AF running everyone through the Secret Security clearance program.  Last estimate to run a person through SF86 was $145.00.

The Coast Guard Auxiliary did that and lost 1/3 of its membership over the 3 years it took to process the whole membership of 37,000. All new Auxie applicants must go thru the same check and it takes months. Many applicants don't wait out the process and 'leave' before their applicantion is ever processed.

Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

[cnitas]

So was the CGAux happy about the membership loss (read: Were these losses worth keeping?)

[NIN]

So was the CGAux happy about the membership loss (read: Were these losses worth keeping?)

hey, some people won't wait until September to join my unit.  Oh well.  Depends on how motivated you are and how the bar is set.

If they tell you "Yeah, you can join *right now* and be skimming across the waves looking for boaters with expired EPIRBS *tomorrow*!" and then *poof* you're told "Oh, but you gotta wait 45 days for your background check to complete.." that's a little disingenuous and it would be understandable for someone to get PO'd and say "forget it."

If, however, you're told up front "Hey, here's the process and heres how it goes and its going to take 45 days or more from the moment you put your paperwork in just to clear your background check," at least that's a known quantity and you know it beforehand.

[O-Rex]

Back to topic:

As for the individual with teenagers in his house for "training:"  If he's not in CAP, and is not conducting illegal activities, it's a moot point, unless the individual was convicted of some kind of molestation charge. . .

As for the US Ranger Corps, I see it as TP's realization that resurrecting his CAP career is a not going to happen, so he's starting his own org.

It is an extremely amitious undertaking to spool up something like CAP, particularly without a Govt sponsor.

Don't see it as a threat to CAP. 

TP is no longer in the organization: let's leave him to pursue his own endeavors as we pursue ours, because we have alot for us to do to get our own house in order.