CAP members being offered military discounts: Proper response?

[DoubleSecret]

1.  A CAP cadet's parent posts on social media that his teenage cadet (wearing CAP uniform, never served in the military) got a military discount.
2.  A CAP officer (never served in the military) commonly receives military discounts when wearing the USAF-style uniform.
3.  A CAP officer (never served in the military) occasionally receives military discounts in civilian clothes, because his CAP ID just happens to be visible in his wallet when he pays.

Can we get a consensus here as to the proper response?

I've seen the "I may not be in the military, but I'm in its unpaid auxiliary, that's close enough" defense.
I've seen the "quiet acceptance is okay because there ain't no rule" defense, i.e. If National Headquarters wanted you to turn down military discounts or clarify your status, they'd put it in a regulation.
I've seen the "people can read, the uniform says CIVIL AIR PATROL and they know, they really are thanking you for your service with that discount" defense.
I've seen the "if a nonmember of the military is offered a military discount, that's where an honest person would be forthright about his/her status instead of silently accepting it" response.

My thought:  We teach character development, yet we have some adult officers who see nothing wrong with exploiting resemblance to our serving military counterparts for financial benefit.  It boggles the mind.

[Eclipse]

Can we get a consensus here as to the proper response?

Thank you.

[MIKE]

Can we get a consensus here as to the proper response?

Thank you.

Agreed... If I was offered a discount I would politely decline... but if you are in uniform and it shows up on the receipt/check unannounced... I would just say thank you.

[Spam]

Exactly so - "Thank you".

My presumption is that members will not claim stolen valor, by actually seeking said discounts, rights, or status.  If I ever see/hear same, I will (have) quietly take(n) them out of earshot for course corrections ASAP.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Do not ask for it, but if offered, graciously accept and thank the person.

[a2capt]

Quite often, even after explaining that we're not active duty, but civilian volunteers, cadet programs, search and rescue, aerospace education, and that our organization is structured similarly to the Air Force, as it's auxiliary .. I have -still- been extended a discount. Many times the conversation starts out as 'are you...', and it's explained, like you know it's coming.

Several local vendors know -exactly- who we are and intentionally extend some sort of acknowledgement, in return word spreads and businesses are patronized both by members and non-members alike.

Isn't that what it's all about in the end? To many merchants, at least in this larger military and service organization friendly locale, extend some type of acknowledgement to community service groups, LE/FD, et al., as well.

[NIN]

Last year I shanghai'd Pylon to come up to my unit and help "supervise" a photo shoot for recruiting materials.

Afterwards, before he headed back home, we went to grab a bite to eat and we were both still in uniform.  We went to a small little restaurant here in town, just before closing, and ordered up quickly so we didn't inconvenience anybody.  When the check came, it had a 25% discount for "military" on it.

Now, we probably could have said "hey, uh, yeah, we're not military" (actually, Pylon is a Devil Dog, so I guess they were 1/2 right..) but would it have done any good? Probably.

Its not like we went there expecting a discount (I didn't know they even had one!), nor did we seek it out.  In compensation, since then I go there quite a bit with my family and I talk the place up to anybody who will listen.

At a certain point, what are you doing by correcting well-meaning civilians?  (ie. same as "thank you for your service")  You're basically saying "You shouldn't do that because..." or "Well, some folks in uniform don't deserve this.."  which, in a way, erodes confidence in the military.   

Bottom line: if you're in a CAP uniform and seeking out discounts, you're probably wrong. If you're in a CAP uniform and you wind up with a random discount, just say thanks and drive on. 

(About half the time, when I pull up to the drive thru at Dunkin' Donuts across the street from the Joint Forces HQ on my way to CAP, and they spot my uniform, they usually give me the 10% discount.  Its not worth anybody's time to lean out of my car and try to explain thru the little window that I'm not really military.  She sees a bunch of people a day in ACUs, ABUs, flight suits and Class B's.  The nuances are lost to her. I don't say when I'm at the little speaker stand "Military discount" but they see the uniform in the car and they apply it. Oh well..)

[arajca]

My $0.02:

If you ask for a military discount based on your CAP membership/uniform, you are wrong.

If an establishment asks if you are military, politely explain and let them decide if you get one. If they give you a discount, just say thanks.

If an establishment gives you a military discount without asking, just say thanks.

[Garibaldi]

On a semi-related note, I work at Home Depot, where a 10% courtesy discount is offered in-store. We had been offering it over the phone until about February last year. Well, of the couple dozen people who asked about it, the majority understood. Some got all indignant about it, even after it was explained to them. Even when I bbrought up fraudulent use, they got mad. How can we check an ID online? I would ask. Not my problem, he replied. I want it, I deserve it and you're going to give it to me.

Why?

[Eclipse]

People are people, and some will try and take advantage in any way possible, or just to "stick it to the man".

Not much you can do about it.

If it's company policy, not much you can do - maybe suggest a process by which you could verify qualification
in store for future purchases and maybe even in-store credit on past sales once verified.

[Private Investigator]

OTOH the flight suit is a "chick magnet".  Maverick out .. 

[NIN]

OTOH the flight suit is a "chick magnet".  Maverick out .. 

I've worn a flight suit off and on since 1986 or so. .

It ain't working, Goose.

[ZigZag911]

This can be a bit ambiguous.

Certainly none of our members (who do not now nor have not ever served in the Real Military) should misrepresent their true status.

However, there are businesses, large and small, that appreciate CAP's contributions to community and nation while recognizing that we aren't the "real" Air Force.

One example that comes to mind are the large hotel chains that readily offer our members the military discount for conferences and other activities.

My ultimate take is "be truthful" and, if still offered, "say thanks"!

[lordmonar]

If you ask "do you have a military discount" and show your CAP ID and they give it too you.....good on you.   And good on them.

If you ask and show your ID and they say "no not CAP" then good on you and good on them.

I don't really care.

[PA Guy]

I have never been comfortable with the military discount for CAP. I have only encountered this a few times with meals and I leave a tip that covers the discount plus if needed.

If you are going to the mall for personal  shopping in uniform that is just plain wrong. Likewise flashing a CAP ID card (joke that it is) is also wrong as well as inquiring about a mil discount based on CAP membership.

If there is no graceful way to avoid the situation thank the business and move on.

[blackrain]

I've never noticed a discount on the occasional time I've grabbed a bite to or from a SAREX while in CAP uniform but I supposed it could have happened. That said I did stop once for gas while in CAP uniform on my way to a SAREX and the young clerk behind the counter asked what branch I was in. Turns out she was Air Force Reserve (E-3 I recall) and I couldn't outright tell from her tone whether she thought I was some kind of wannabe military or genuinely wasn't familiar with CAP. I did spend a few minutes expaining the difference. The times I have been there in my RM uniform I've never run in to her so who knows if she believed me.

[Fubar]

Another advantage of wearing a polo shirt, these moral quandaries of appearing like something you're not don't come up.

I did get a discount once because the person behind the counter recognized the polo because her child was a cadet in another squadron. I was told the discount was in appreciation for being a volunteer, I thought that was nice.

[EMT-83]

Another advantage of wearing a polo shirt, these moral quandaries of appearing like something you're not don't come up.

I did get a discount once because the person behind the counter recognized the polo because her child was a cadet in another squadron. I was told the discount was in appreciation for being a volunteer, I thought that was nice.

I've never had a "moral quandary" about a rare discount being offered. Be gracious, say thanks and move on. The person offering the discount has forgotten about it before you even reached the parking lot.

[Private Investigator]

OTOH the flight suit is a "chick magnet".  Maverick out .. 

I've worn a flight suit off and on since 1986 or so. .

It ain't working, Goose.

Goose! You are on fire! BAIL OUT! Maverick out .. 

[kwe1009]

If you ask "do you have a military discount" and show your CAP ID and they give it too you.....good on you.   And good on them.

If you ask and show your ID and they say "no not CAP" then good on you and good on them.

I don't really care.

If you ask for a military discount and you are not military then not "good on you."  What is your rationale for asking for a MILITARY discount if you are not military?

[MSG Mac]

Don't go searching for a discount unless you have a military affiliation (Active, Reserve, or Retired). If given one tip at the actual cost of the meal. When I lived in Boston a restaurant I frequented as a city employee, on an occasional basis would give tell me the meal was on the house. my tip was always equal to the cost of the meal.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Why overanalyse it?

Again, if offered, graciously accept, if not, don't ask for it.

I remember a practice mission years ago when we all went to (I think) a Shoney's restaurant to eat.  We were all aircrew and wearing green zoom bags.  The waitress gave all of us at the table (I think there were more than 10 of us) a discount.  She said her manager directed her to do so.  We thanked her and left it at that.

It's the choice of a private establishment whether they want to do so or not.

[wuzafuzz]

If offered a military discount due to a CAP uniform, I ALWAYS provide a quick "I'm not in the Air Force, but I'm in Civil Air Patrol which means I'm a volunteer who helps the Air Force."  It takes mere seconds and resolves any misunderstanding.  If they want to ask further questions or provide a discount anyway, totally cool.  Say thanks and move on.

Alternative outcome:
You accept a military discount without explaining what CAP is.  A nearby veteran or active service member overhears, recognizes your CAP uniform, knows the difference, and now thinks you are a sleazy poser.  That veteran then shares his (or her) account with a few others.  1 or more people now view CAP in a negative light.  There is a bit of Chicken Little in that tale, but you know it has happened.  Why not present CAP in the best light possible?

I have visited restaurants, coffee shops, etc in a group of people sporting CAP polo uniforms.  That still grabs attention.  Staff asks if we are in a club or something and we explain we are participating in a CAP DR/SAR exercise.  Staff thinks that is cool and offers a discount.  I've experienced that more often than being offered a military discount.

[Flying Pig]

It gets sticky where I am now for work.  I work for an LE agency, Im not an officer (well...until Feb) but I still wear a green flight suit.  So I get discounts for being in the military, because people see the green flight suit.   I get discounts for being an "officer" because people see my name patch with the star and the wings.  For an LE agency, we are supposed to decline any discounts.  But in the south, quite honestly, I would never be able to eat on duty.  I always offer to pay full price.  But like wazafuzz stated.  If I get it offered because someone thinks Im in the military, I always clarify that Im not.  If I end up looking at the bill at the end of the meal and its discounted, I just let it go.  Nobody knows and calling the manager over, potentially getting the waiter in trouble or embarrassed for trying to do the right thing, or maybe the waiter did it without the manager knowing...   Unless they announce it publicly I say just let it go.  Even as a cop, rarely has it ever been openly obvious that I got a discount.   Except for once at an In N Out burger place in CA.... when the cashier yells to the back "Hey..... cops get 1/2 off right?" as the line was going out the door it was so busy! :clap:  Situational Awareness is your friend in most of these cases.

[kwe1009]

If offered a military discount due to a CAP uniform, I ALWAYS provide a quick "I'm not in the Air Force, but I'm in Civil Air Patrol which means I'm a volunteer who helps the Air Force."  It takes mere seconds and resolves any misunderstanding.  If they want to ask further questions or provide a discount anyway, totally cool.  Say thanks and move on.

Alternative outcome:
You accept a military discount without explaining what CAP is.  A nearby veteran or active service member overhears, recognizes your CAP uniform, knows the difference, and now thinks you are a sleazy poser.  That veteran then shares his (or her) account with a few others.  1 or more people now view CAP in a negative light.  There is a bit of Chicken Little in that tale, but you know it has happened.  Why not present CAP in the best light possible?

I have visited restaurants, coffee shops, etc in a group of people sporting CAP polo uniforms.  That still grabs attention.  Staff asks if we are in a club or something and we explain we are participating in a CAP DR/SAR exercise.  Staff thinks that is cool and offers a discount.  I've experienced that more often than being offered a military discount.

That is exactly how it should be handled. 

Just simply accepting it because you "don't want to offend the person offering" (a common argument I hear) doesn't even make sense.  As you said, it takes a few seconds to properly identify yourself and if you are still offered the discount then GREAT!

Why overanalyse it?

Again, if offered, graciously accept, if not, don't ask for it.

I remember a practice mission years ago when we all went to (I think) a Shoney's restaurant to eat.  We were all aircrew and wearing green zoom bags.  The waitress gave all of us at the table (I think there were more than 10 of us) a discount.  She said her manager directed her to do so.  We thanked her and left it at that.

It's the choice of a private establishment whether they want to do so or not.

You are correct that is is the choice of the establishment but if they are offering a MILITARY discount, that means people who took the Oath of Enlistment or Oath of Office in one of the military branches, not CAP.  If you tell the business that you are not military but they still extend the discount then that is a different scenario. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I once took that oath so I am not unfamiliar with your position.

IF offered NOW I show my CAP ID card and let them decide.

That said, I rarely get offers because I tend to be fairly scrupulous about not going into commercial establishments in uniform before/after CAP activities, per regs.  Maybe a McDonalds, in and out in about 20 minutes...and I surely don't advertise what my uniform is unless asked, and I usually keep it simple if asked:

"I am an officer in the Civil Air Patrol.  We are the volunteer Auxiliary of the United States Air Force.

I have never, and never will, go into an establishment in or out of uniform and say the above along with "will you give me a military discount?"  Tacky and disrespectful as hell, reflecting badly on both CAP and the Armed Forces.

If I am in BBDU's I more often get mistaken for being a first-responder type, or Coast Guard (there is a heavy CG presence here).  I give a firm "NO" to both of those questions.

And, as I have related before (though it didn't involve a discount), I was once in a department store wearing the AF-type short sleeved kit making a brief purchase.  A young woman came up to me and asked if I was a store security guard.

[EMT-83]

I find it amusing that anyone thinks the kid behind the counter gives a rat's behind if you're active duty, reserve, veteran or lowly volunteer. Or for that matter, a cop, fireman or EMT.  They see the uniform and want to do something nice, whether on their own or by following company policy.

You don't need to explain or apologize. Just say thank you and get out of the way so they can wait on the next person in line.

[Eclipse]

[Flying Pig]

I find it amusing that anyone thinks the kid behind the counter gives a rat's behind if you're active duty, reserve, veteran or lowly volunteer. Or for that matter, a cop, fireman or EMT.  They see the uniform and want to do something nice, whether on their own or by following company policy.

You don't need to explain or apologize. Just say thank you and get out of the way so they can wait on the next person in line.

Most have directives that military, public safety or EMS in uniform get discounts.  It usually just happens without much of a mention at all.  Making it an issue makes it an issue.  Take it from me... I have a 15 yr career of 1/2 off experience 

[MSG Mac]

I met a B-K manager whose store was across the street from both a Police and a Fire stations. The Cops were always stopping in and getting free food not only for themselves, but their entire families. The firemen never asked for freebies and when offered would usually turn it down. The day his store was robbed, it took 45 minutes for the police to respond. Cops never got a free meal or discount again. Firemen couldn't pay for a meal in the store.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I met a B-K manager whose store was across the street from both a Police and a Fire stations. The Cops were always stopping in and getting free food not only for themselves, but their entire families. The firemen never asked for freebies and when offered would usually turn it down. The day his store was robbed, it took 45 minutes for the police to respond. Cops never got a free meal or discount again. Firemen couldn't pay for a meal in the store.

Firefighters don't need B-K.  They can cook better than anyone, at any restaurant, anytime, anywhere.

I grew up next to a fire station and know from experience.

It was a disadvantaged (to put it mildly) area and the firefighters often fed the neighbourhood kids who wouldn't have eaten regularly otherwise.

Whether it was chilli, grilling steaks, grilling fish, whatever...I could always tell spring had arrived by the toothsome smells wafting in from next door.

[JC004]

I've seen various places that do a public service discount (police, fire, SAR, etc.) that aren't restricted to military. 

Obviously CAP members shouldn't go seeking discounts meant only for active duty military if they aren't also that, but one thing I've done in the past was get local discounts for CAP members. 

I think squadrons should try that, if they can.  If you have a local sporting goods shop, public safety uniform/equipment shop, surplus store, disaster prep place (or other relevant retailer), give them a call and ask if they'd be willing to offer either a regular discount to your members, or do special discount periods (I've seen stores take a week or 2 and offer a discount or coupon for members doing that time period, or offer a kick-back on purchases as a fundraiser).   At least one public safety uniform/equipment place I know of offers discounts to a couple groups because they're volunteers (I'm sure other places would do this if asked). 

Maybe you can get a local hobby shop to offer a discount for cadets who want to buy model rockets or airplanes, or the local public safety supplier will give discounts on Blueberry Suits and equipment - there's lots of possibilities.

I've arranged discounts with local companies for various non-profits' volunteers, and generally, they've been happy to do it, appreciate the business, and consider it a cheap way to advertise their offerings.  I've had some of them offer special coupons to volunteers a couple times a year.

All we had to do was ask, and let them know the value of the volunteers in their communities.

Some of these businesses have also put up products, services, or gift certificates to run free raffles at volunteer recruiting or public information displays at community events (get some attention and bring more people to your display/table/booth).  Get an outdoors shop to put up a $25 gift certificate, run a free raffle, and get some attention for your display.

[kwe1009]

For those that think it is acceptable to just take a MILITARY discount without at least telling the person that you are not military would you respond the same way if you were being accused of something bad?  Would you keep quiet and graciously accept the punishment just as you would graciously accept the benefit?

Again, I see nothing wrong with a CAP member receiving a military discount if they at least first explain who they really are and if the business still offers the discount then great.

[Eclipse]

For those that think it is acceptable to just take a MILITARY discount without at least telling the person that you are not military would you respond the same way if you were being accused of something bad?  Would you keep quiet and graciously accept the punishment just as you would graciously accept the benefit?

This isn't even remotely the same thing.

[Private Investigator]

For those that think it is acceptable to just take a MILITARY discount without at least telling the person that you are not military would you respond the same way if you were being accused of something bad?  Would you keep quiet and graciously accept the punishment just as you would graciously accept the benefit?

This isn't even remotely the same thing.

Wow, I agree, that came in from left field. 

[raivo]

This one time, I saw a CAP LtCol in blues at a restaurant where I was TDY, on a military appreciation night around Veterans' Day.

The "are you serious?" meme hadn't been invented yet, but I suspect it was a pretty good approximation of my expression.

[lordmonar]

This one time, I saw a CAP LtCol in blues at a restaurant where I was TDY, on a military appreciation night around Veterans' Day.

The "are you serious?" meme hadn't been invented yet, but I suspect it was a pretty good approximation of my expression.

So...the initial response is...."this guy is just milking CAP for a free meal".   Not maybe.....he's on his way home from a CAP thing and stopped off for dinner.    Any idea if he asked for or got a discount just for being a CAP member?

This sort of thing works both ways.  Let's not perpetuate the myth of Salute Trolls and Benefit Trolls just because you saw a guy in CAP uniform.

BTW I was in my CAP uniform last Veterans Day.   I was at a Veterans Event and then I went out to dinner at a place that was giving discounts.....so it could have been me you saw.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

To me just handing the establishment owner/manager my CAP Identification Card is information enough.  It says who I am and what CAP is.

[raivo]

Unlikely, this was in 2009.

I won't say it wasn't a coincidence, but... it was odd timing.

[lordmonar]

Unlikely, this was in 2009.

I won't say it wasn't a coincidence, but... it was odd timing.

It could have been me in 2009.   Again....a CAP member wearing a uniform on Veteran's Day.....what are the odds of that happening.    Like I said....lots of legitimate reasons for that to happen without jumping straight to "oh he's just trying to get a free meal".

[Private Investigator]

On most Memorial Days I am in a CAP uniform and I do not fast on Mondays. 

[kwe1009]

For those that think it is acceptable to just take a MILITARY discount without at least telling the person that you are not military would you respond the same way if you were being accused of something bad?  Would you keep quiet and graciously accept the punishment just as you would graciously accept the benefit?

This isn't even remotely the same thing.

Why not?  In both cases you are mistaken for something that you are not.  If you would correct the person accusing you of doing something that doesn't benefit you, why wouldn't you correct the person when they are doing something that would benefit you?  I admit it is extreme but if you are willing to accept the "rewards" due to a case of mistaken identity without trying to correctly identify yourself then you should to the same when it is not to your benefit. 

[Eclipse]

You forget that the granting of this magic discount benefits the spirit of the
giver as much or more then the recipient.

Further, the explanation is counter productive to both parties and again assumes
the magic discount was given in error, potentially insulting the giver and possibly
making them reluctant to grant a discount to anyone next two me.

Your example overthinks the entire situation.

Just don't troll and say "Thank You." and move on.

[Storm Chaser]

Are we still talking about this?

It's very simple. Just follow these basic rules:

     1.  If you're not in the military, then don't ask for a military discount.

     2.  If you're in CAP uniform and they ask you whether you're in the military, then say no, that you're in Civil Air Patrol. No further explanation is necessary unless they ask.

     3.  If they offer you a discount anyway, then say thank you and move on.

Whatever you do, don't ask for a discount that hasn't been offered, don't lie about your military status and don't make a big deal if they give you a discount anyway. Is it really that difficult?

[JeffDG]

     3.  If they offer you a discount anyway, then say thank you and move on.

Corollary to this...leave a tip of at least as much as the discount...

[SarDragon]

I generally leave a tip on the full amount, regardless of the amount or percentage of the discount. I also tip on the full tab, including tax.

[Eclipse]

I generally leave a tip on the full amount, regardless of the amount or percentage of the discount. I also tip on the full tab, including tax.

+1

[Chappie]

I generally leave a tip on the full amount, regardless of the amount or percentage of the discount. I also tip on the full tab, including tax.

SarDragon is and always has been a class act.  You, my friend, are a true gentleman and a scholar. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

I generally leave a tip on the full amount, regardless of the amount or percentage of the discount. I also tip on the full tab, including tax.

SarDragon is and always has been a class act.  You, my friend, are a true gentleman and a scholar.

Agreed. I always end up tipping 20%. I hear 15-18% being the norm, so at least 20% (unless service is REALLY that bad, and that's rare), it ends up being 20-25% easy.

[SarDragon]

OTOH, if the service is really bad, ow much do you tip?

[Майор Хаткевич]

OTOH, if the service is really bad, ow much do you tip?

Depends.

Is it because there's 1 server for 20 tables?

Is the kitchen taking for ever?

Is the server being a jerk?

[SarDragon]

Let's stick with #3 - jerk, or just plain incompetent.

[raivo]

I always baseline at about 20%, or whatever my math-disinclined brain approximates that to. If someone's really good, I add more.

Minimum wage for servers is bad enough as it is, and they're probably getting stiffed by plenty of other people on a daily basis.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Let's stick with #3 - jerk, or just plain incompetent.

Depending on the jerk-factor, I'd go 5-10%. As mentioned, the pay sucks. Maybe he's having a bad day. Maybe it's something else. I may just leave a note on the bill as well.

I found it quite interesting after spending some time (about 7 months, which at the time seemed like a lifetime, but to a 17-18 year old kid out of high school, it was) as a server at a country club, that I have a lot more understanding, appreciation, and observation when it comes to the service I get.

Now on our trips to Mexico to an "all-inclusive" resort, we'll typically tip $1/ drink and at least $2-3 for room service, $2-5 for meals, and $1-2 for general "Gracias" on the service department. Yes it's all inclusive. No those people don't make a good wage. Based on what we'd spend, I'd say easily $300+ of our "spending" cash went in single bills for tipping.

[Private Investigator]

I tipped my little sister $20 on a $1.95 tab when I came back from overseas. That cherry pie and coffee was really that good.

My daughters have received excellent tips too.   

[SarDragon]

Bad service - a bunch of pennies, so they know I didn't just forget.

I did tip my middle daughter a Bennie on the side one time.

[JeffDG]

I generally leave a tip on the full amount, regardless of the amount or percentage of the discount. I also tip on the full tab, including tax.

SarDragon is and always has been a class act.  You, my friend, are a true gentleman and a scholar.

Agreed. I always end up tipping 20%. I hear 15-18% being the norm, so at least 20% (unless service is REALLY that bad, and that's rare), it ends up being 20-25% easy.

Easier math!

But the point I was trying to make with respect to tips was:  If you don't feel right accepting the discount, then simply accept it graciously and add it into the tip you leave the server.  That way the server, who extended you the courtesy, ends up receiving the benefit.  You don't need to feel guilty, as you received no benefit, and you don't need to make a big deal out of it.

[RRLE]

Bad service - a bunch of pennies, so they know I didn't just forget.

Hopefully, you only apply that if the server gave you the bad service. Servers very often are, incorrectly, penalized by the customer due to long times out of the kitchen or the taste of the food. Your server has no control over the kitchen, unless they own the place. Further, most servers are required to pool their tips with the other servers and/or split them with the bus staff, maître d' etc.

[Eclipse]

Pennies?  What is this word Pen-y?  Is that the thing that sounds like jingle-bells in Grandpa's pocket?

I can't remember the last time I had service bad enough not to tip or make a "statement" tip. Nor for that matter
carried enough cash to pay for a meal, let alone change (FSM I hate change).

Restaurants get busy, stuff happens. If the food is bad, send it back, if you're not getting enough water,
ask for more, then look at the number on the bottom and scratch-pad / round up 20% and move on.

Someday you'll need the Karma points, and even if not, the server can.  I think it's been said before that
everyone should work in food service at least once in their life to understand how the universe works.

Also, don't ignore them on your phone while you check in on Yelp, or for that matter "get even" there (so. lame.), try and
pick up the server, treat the server like your mom, be rude, expect them to laugh at your stale jokes, or read
your mind that the last time you ate at a restaurant with a similar name in a different city "medium" meant "well".
Be a human being, smile, ask important questions, order exactly what you want, and then move on with your meal.

[Flying Pig]

  Usually 10% was the tax rate when my wife was waitressing.  So if someone didnt leave her a tip, she actually lost money. 

[SarDragon]

I got an up close look at the restaurant business when my daughter worked as a server. She shared all kinds of interesting tidbits about the industry. Also, when I was a teen, I worked in fast food and learned all about customers.

I base my tips on the performance of the server. This includes attitude, efficiency, and general demeanor. I try to be friendly to the wait staff, and generally get good service. Bad service is infrequent, but obvious, and given due attention.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

My mother was a waitress up until she became pregnant with me.

I heard many, many stories from her of the kind of Bravo Sierra that waitresses (which in her day were almost exclusively female) had to put up with...everything from rude customers blaming her for something the cook messed up to having to break up fights (some of the places she worked were rather seedy) to men trying to "put hands" on her.

In her later years, she suffered severe lower back pain and had to use a walker due to all the years she spent on her feet carrying trays full of food.

Waitstaff today don't even get minimum wage in most states; hence, they virtually live on their tips.

In most cases, regardless of whether I've got a discount or not for being in CAP, I usually give the waitstaff $5, unless the service was really bad.  I try to give it to them in person, rather than just leaving it at the table.  If the server was male, I usually say, "thanks for good service, don't spend it all in one place," accompanied by a smile and usually a handshake.  If the server was female, I usually say, "that's for being attentive and friendly," accompanied by a smile.

In the vast majority of cases, the waitstaff are usually extremely appreciative when I do that...if it brightens their day, much the better.

[Flying Pig]

Waitstaff today don't even get minimum wage in most states; hence, they virtually live on their tips.

Florida is like that.  Employers can pay food service employees who get tips 50% of minimum wage.  (or close to that.  I don't know that actual number)  When we first moved here my wife looked into it and we both agreed it wasnt even worth the gas to drive to work. I think it was $4.75 an hour and your tips were taxed also. 

[Ned]

I have certainly spent my fair share of time working in the restaurant business at or near the minimum wage level.  But when I started as a busboy at minimum wage, the servers were supposed to pool the tips.  But somehow all I ever got was the pennies and loose change they didn't want to carry around.

Similarly, later as the lead cook on a shift, if my crew did a particuarly good job getting orders out in a timely manner and with a spectacular presentation we somehow never seemed to share in the servers' good fortune.

This isn't really about whether servers are good or bad people; but rather about the pecularly American system that has large corporations and wealthy restauranteurs undercompsenating front of the house staff and expecting the customers to pony up the difference.  Plenty of other countries have high quality restaurants and pay their employees fairly.  If we could figure out how to manage the transition, it would certainly minimize the amount of drama that colors the interaction of tipped and non-tipped personnel in the hosptitality industry.  Little of which inures to the benefit of the customer.

Oh, and the uniforms worn by most front of the house crew are unprofessional and do not allow them to wear insignia denoting professional education and accomplishments.   

[Luis R. Ramos]

Drat! Another good thread derailed by the uniform issue!!!

[posted this with a smile]

[Alaric]

Oh, and the uniforms worn by most front of the house crew are unprofessional and do not allow them to wear insignia denoting professional education and accomplishments.   

You mean the pins that the waitress at TGI Fridays is wearing do not denote professional education and accomplishments ?   

[MacGruff]

This isn't really about whether servers are good or bad people; but rather about the pecularly American system that has large corporations and wealthy restauranteurs undercompsenating front of the house staff and expecting the customers to pony up the difference.  Plenty of other countries have high quality restaurants and pay their employees fairly.  If we could figure out how to manage the transition, it would certainly minimize the amount of drama that colors the interaction of tipped and non-tipped personnel in the hosptitality industry.  Little of which inures to the benefit of the customer.

Oh, and the uniforms worn by most front of the house crew are unprofessional and do not allow them to wear insignia denoting professional education and accomplishments.   

I remember visiting London a few years ago and leaving a tip at a restaurant for my first lunch there. I was shocked when the waitress chased me down in the street and gave me back the tip money telling me that it was unnecessary and included in the price. Much nicer than the U.S.

To make this a mandatory uniform thread, the local grocery store personnel wear nametags with their years of service on them!

[Eclipse]

This isn't really about whether servers are good or bad people; but rather about the pecularly American system that has large corporations and wealthy restauranteurs undercompsenating front of the house staff and expecting the customers to pony up the difference.  Plenty of other countries have high quality restaurants and pay their employees fairly.  If we could figure out how to manage the transition, it would certainly minimize the amount of drama that colors the interaction of tipped and non-tipped personnel in the hosptitality industry.  Little of which inures to the benefit of the customer.

http://www.slate.com/articles/video/video/2014/06/office_space_t_g_i_friday_s_mike_judge_movie_led_restaurant_chain_to_abandon.html

The problem with the tip / no tip discussion is that a lot of tipped workers are just fine with how it is.
For better or worse, people on salary are forced to pay taxes, those getting tips are free to use their integrity in that regard.

A big part of the issues is the attitude many "professionals" hold and engender in their kids, about service personnel in general
whether you're talking about servers, skycaps, plumbers or the beleaguered IT people, many with a white collar think having a blue collar
makes you "less" - which works great until your terlit don't flush at 2AM, etc.

It's especially prevalent in college kids, who, granted, are kids.   We've always tried to make our kids understand that
servers, etc., deserve the same respect as anyone else, and part of that is dropping the 20% as a matter of course and
not making a big deal about it (and being nice in general).

Those of us who have to travel a lot for work learn(ed) quickly that a smile and respectable tip, but especially the smile
gets doors opened a lot faster and smoother (both figuratively and literally) then pounding a fist or threatening to call a boss.
These people are required to do "x", but are able to do "pretty much anything".  Whether you get "x", or an upgrade
depends a lot on your attitude.

[raivo]

You mean the pins that the waitress at TGI Fridays is wearing do not denote professional education and accomplishments ?   

"We need to talk about your flair."

[MSG Mac]

Before tipping make sure there's not a mandatory tip already on the bill. Also tip in cash, The IRS can't follow it through the restaurant's receipts.

[Alaric]

Before tipping make sure there's not a mandatory tip already on the bill. Also tip in cash, The IRS can't follow it through the restaurant's receipts.

I tip in whatever method I'm paying if the waitstaff do not have the integrity to report, that's on them, I certainly won't abet tax evasion.

[SarDragon]

A certain amount of allocated tips will show up on the server's W-2, usually 8% of the server's business, if the server under-reports tips to the employer.

IRS Publication 531 covers the subject.

[RRLE]

Florida is like that.  Employers can pay food service employees who get tips 50% of minimum wage.  (or close to that.  I don't know that actual number)

Florida's minimum wage for 2015 is $8.05/hr (higher than the federal minimum wage), $5.03/hr for tipped employees, which is ~ 62% of the non-tipped wage. The tipped wage is calculated from dollars off the non-tipped wage, it is not calculated as a percent of the non-tipped wage.

[JC004]

This thread appears to outlived its usefulness?

[Alaric]

This thread appears to outlived its usefulness?

+!

[LTCinSWR]

Before tipping make sure there's not a mandatory tip already on the bill. Also tip in cash, The IRS can't follow it through the restaurant's receipts.

I do the same; I won't add it to a credit/debit card. I tell the server 'I won't get between you and Uncle Sam'.

[abdsp51]

For me I generally tip based on the service being received.  How long it takes for my order to be taken, how long my glass sits empty and the demeanor of the server.  All of those things will generally determine how much I tip a server.  Now the pizza guy will generally get about 3-4 bucks for a tip. 

Now as a CAP member I have received a mil discount while wearing the uniform but I have never asked for it.  If it is given it's accepted graciously but I don't ask.