Hello,
Now I understand that the Air Force has the Air Mobility Command, Air Combat Command, etc.
Does CAP happen fall under any of these:
Air Force structure and organization
-Major Commands
-ACC Air Combat Command
-Air Education and Training Air Education Command
-Air Force Global Strike Air Force Global Strike Command (AFGSC)
-Air Force Materiel
-Air Force Space Command (AFSPC)
-Air Force Special Operations Command (AFSOC)
-Air Mobility Command(AMC)
Sincerely,
DeRosa
None of the above, really - CAP, per se, isn't a component of the Air Force, it's a separate organizaiton
that supports the Air Force with most of that support going through First Air Force (1AF),
which itself is part of ACC.
CAP-USAF moved from AETC to ACC at the same time (who was going to pay for the patches for the
Reservists was a hot topic at the time on the level of CAP uniform discussions).
Based on the above, you could probably make a strained case that CAP is part of ACC, but it's dotted at best, and
not really true in a meaningful way.
CAP-USAF, the liaison unit within the USAF, is part of the 1st Air Force within the Air Combat Command.
CAP is not part of an Air Force command, per se.
From the stand point of the USAF
CAP is part of ACC and 1st AF.
That's where our money comes from (at least most of the federally allocated money) and that is where our AFAM missions come from.
Quote from: lordmonar on October 27, 2018, 05:11:41 AM
From the stand point of the USAF
CAP is part of ACC and 1st AF.
That's where our money comes from (at least most of the federally allocated money) and that is where our AFAM missions come from.
Perhaps it's picking nits, but the money doesn't
come from the Air Force, but is most certainly routed through them. There have been issues over the years with the Air Force trying to do "stuff" with our allocated funds which leads to arguments over the fact the money isn't really the Air Force's. To be fair, the Air Force has also does contributed funds from their allocated budget to CAP, sometimes for stuff they want, sometimes because they do in fact like what we do for them. The current CEAP program I believe is a great example of this.
So no, CAP is not part of ACC and 1AF, but we're certainly cozy with both and currently the relationship is quite strong. Interestingly, the AFRCC which requests (not assigns) most of our AMFAMs isn't part of ACC either.
Sometimes the military org chart is hard to understand (at least for me).
Quote from: Fubar on October 27, 2018, 07:47:01 AM. Interestingly, the AFRCC which requests (not assigns) most of our AMFAMs isn't part of ACC either.
Sometimes the military org chart is hard to understand (at least for me).
https://www.1af.acc.af.mil/Units/AFRCC/
Strange.....ACC and 1AF seem to think the AFRCC is part of their org chart.
I looked at the page earlier, I didn't see mention of the ACC, just "NORTHCOM" and "AFNORTH", is that the same thing?
Like I said, the military org chart really confuses me.
AFNORTH is synonymous with First Air Force, which is part of Air Combat Command.
AFNORTH is the Air Force component to NORTHCOM. AFNORTH is part of 1 AF which is under ACC. HQ CAP-USAF reports to 1AF.
Clear as mud?
QuoteAFNORTH is part of 1 AF which is under ACC. HQ CAP-USAF reports to 1AF.
Not part of, AFNORTH = 1AF.
QuoteAFNORTH is synonymous with First Air Force, which is part of Air Combat Command.
Correct.
From ACC: https://www.acc.af.mil/Units.aspx
First Air Force, or Air Forces Northern, with headquarters at Tyndall AFB, Fla...
From the 1AF homepage https://www.1af.acc.af.mil/Library/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/289618/1st-af-mission/
First Air Force (Air Forces Northern) is one of three numbered air forces assigned to Headquarters Air Combat Command.
First Air Force is also the designated air component for the U.S. Northern Command.
As the USNORTHCOM air component, AFNORTH is the senior agency in the United States Theater Air Control System...
From the NORTHCOM homepage http://www.northcom.mil/About-USNORTHCOM/
USNORTHCOM consolidates under a single unified command existing missions that were previously executed by other DOD organizations. This provides unity of command, which is critical to mission accomplishment. USNORTHCOM Units - U.S. Special Operations Command, North, U.S. Marine Forces Northern Command, U.S. Fleet Forces Command/U.S. Navy North,
Air Forces Northern (First Air Force), U.S. Army North, Joint Task Force North, Joint Task Force Civil Support...
QuoteInterestingly, the AFRCC which requests (not assigns) most of our AMFAMs isn't part of ACC either.
No, as noted here
QuoteStrange.....ACC and 1AF seem to think the AFRCC is part of their org chart. https://www.1af.acc.af.mil/Units/AFRCC/
and here https://www.1af.acc.af.mil/Library/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/289622/air-force-rescue-coordination-center/
In 1993, the AFRCC relocated to Langley Air Force Base, Va. (from Scott AFB, IL), when Air Combat Command assumed responsibility for Air Force peacetime and combat SAR. In October 2003, the AFRCC was realigned under the Air Force Special Operations Command. Then in April 2006, the AFRCC was realigned back to Air Combat Command. On 1 March 2007 the AFRCC was moved from Langley to Tyndall Air Force Base under the 1st Air Force (AFNORTH) commander.
(https://i.imgur.com/A6FT1mp.jpg)
Yes, that is a direct line from the AFRCC/CC to the 1AF/CC.
From the earlier 1AF link
Additionally, the realignment of CAP-USAF to ACC provides 1AF the ability to increase the utilization of the Air Force Auxiliary as part of the Total Force. First Air Force can better assist CAP-USAF in its responsibility for ensuring that CAP is organized, trained, and equipped to fulfill Air Force-assigned missions.
Mike
Quote from: sardak on October 28, 2018, 06:24:45 PM
Additionally, the realignment of CAP-USAF to ACC provides 1AF the ability to increase the utilization of the Air Force Auxiliary as part of the Total Force.
Unfortunately, we haven't really seen any of this come to pass.
Thank you SARDAK! I didn't grasp that the ACC was the top-level part of the org here. I thought it reported to 1AF, thank you for the great information!
So do I have this right?
Headquarters, United States Air Force (HAF) -> Air Combat Command (ACC) -> First Air Force (1AF) (which is commanded U.S. Northern Command, NORTHCOM as part of a joint command structure) -> CAP-USAF
Headquarters, United States Air Force (HAF)->Air Combat Command (ACC) -> First Air Force (1AF) (which is commanded U.S. Northern Command, NORTHCOM as part of a joint command structure) -> AFRCC
Making the CAP-USAF folks and the AFRCC neighbors on the org chart.
The old position of CAP-USAF prior to being moved (back I believe?) to it's current position was HAF->Air Education Training Command (AETC)->Air University->Holm Center->CAP-USAF
I'm told the thought process behind this was it's where ROTC/JROTC lived and it's also at Maxwell AFB.
Quote from: RiverAux on October 28, 2018, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: sardak on October 28, 2018, 06:24:45 PM
Additionally, the realignment of CAP-USAF to ACC provides 1AF the ability to increase the utilization of the Air Force Auxiliary as part of the Total Force.
Unfortunately, we haven't really seen any of this come to pass.
I'm told the behind-the-scenes management is much easier for CAP-USAF being under the ACC, as before being under a different major command (MAJCOM) made some coordination (I read that to mean money flow) challenging.
As for utilization, they seem to keep CAP busy, although they tend to be large national-level type stuff.
Quote from: RiverAux on October 28, 2018, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: sardak on October 28, 2018, 06:24:45 PM
Additionally, the realignment of CAP-USAF to ACC provides 1AF the ability to increase the utilization of the Air Force Auxiliary as part of the Total Force.
Unfortunately, we haven't really seen any of this come to pass.
What exactly are you looking for?
Quote from: PHall on October 29, 2018, 12:28:18 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on October 28, 2018, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: sardak on October 28, 2018, 06:24:45 PM
Additionally, the realignment of CAP-USAF to ACC provides 1AF the ability to increase the utilization of the Air Force Auxiliary as part of the Total Force.
Unfortunately, we haven't really seen any of this come to pass.
What exactly are you looking for?
We barely have the resources for the missions we currently have.
Quote
Additionally, the realignment of CAP-USAF to ACC provides 1AF the ability to increase the utilization of the Air Force Auxiliary as part of the Total Force.
I just don't get it with the folks that will go so far 'round the bend in a discussion .... to try and and make the point they are somehow connected to the Air Force , even if its like being someone's 4th cousin, twice removed.
Those who truly want to be full blown Air Force? The recruiting office is right down the street. ;D
These discussions always tickle me. People are funny creatures. I see the craziest one, in the mirror every morning.
Quote from: PHall on October 29, 2018, 12:28:18 AM
Quote from: RiverAux on October 28, 2018, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: sardak on October 28, 2018, 06:24:45 PM
Additionally, the realignment of CAP-USAF to ACC provides 1AF the ability to increase the utilization of the Air Force Auxiliary as part of the Total Force.
Unfortunately, we haven't really seen any of this come to pass.
What exactly are you looking for?
Plenty of other threads on the topic of alternative ways CAP could assist the Air Force. Just saying that if this was a significant reason for the switch, then it hasn't really come to pass as advertised.
There is absolutely no direct (Chain of Command) line between ACC and CAP, however the commander of 1AF is a member of the CAP Board of Governors; appointed by the SECAF. That's about it. The only other real relationships between the two organizations is AFRCC and CAP, and CAP-USAF and CAP. Of course, we do have an "Auxiliary" relationship with the USAF... from time to time :angel:
Quote from: RiverAux on October 28, 2018, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: sardak on October 28, 2018, 06:24:45 PM
Additionally, the realignment of CAP-USAF to ACC provides 1AF the ability to increase the utilization of the Air Force Auxiliary as part of the Total Force.
Unfortunately, we haven't really seen any of this come to pass.
Green Flag East and West, plus specifically the Escort missions come to mind, as ACC, looks at ways to increase it's use CAP.
Quote from: Larry Mangum on October 29, 2018, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on October 28, 2018, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: sardak on October 28, 2018, 06:24:45 PM
Additionally, the realignment of CAP-USAF to ACC provides 1AF the ability to increase the utilization of the Air Force Auxiliary as part of the Total Force.
Unfortunately, we haven't really seen any of this come to pass.
Green Flag East and West, plus specifically the Escort missions come to mind, as ACC, looks at ways to increase it's use CAP.
Green flag missions started many years before the move.
Quote from: RiverAux on October 30, 2018, 11:39:39 AM
Quote from: Larry Mangum on October 29, 2018, 01:25:27 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on October 28, 2018, 08:19:22 PM
Quote from: sardak on October 28, 2018, 06:24:45 PM
Additionally, the realignment of CAP-USAF to ACC provides 1AF the ability to increase the utilization of the Air Force Auxiliary as part of the Total Force.
Unfortunately, we haven't really seen any of this come to pass.
Green Flag East and West, plus specifically the Escort missions come to mind, as ACC, looks at ways to increase it's use CAP.
Green flag missions started many years before the move.
They did but ACC comes by to visit reguarly now days and is looking at investing additional monies into new equipment and new missions.