So, I suppose we want to encourage self-deployment by CAP members now...

[arajca]

There is a difference between the one that started this thread and the last one: First, CAP members self-dispatched to an incident. They weren't on-scene already. The second, CAP members stumbhled onto a situation, notified proper chain of command and authorities, and rendered assistance. Two very different scenarios.

The second scenario was, IMHO, handled properly.

[afgeo4]

Do we know there was no existing MOU between this CAP unit and the Emergency Management Agency in question?  Don't forget, we can be hired by organizations other than USAF.

[afgeo4]

I would make sure there's a written release for this filed paperwork so it doesn't come back as questions of why the signal wasn't shut off.  Personally, I'd insist on the FBO contacting the owner of the aircraft so the ELT would be shut down. 2 reasons... first, the a/c could be moved in the middle of the night and the AFRCC would have to alert everyone and second, if a non-distress signal goes off and isn't shut off and then a real, distress signal goes off in the area, which one will you find? How long will it take you to find it? Will you kick yourself in the ass for not shutting it off? I know I would.

Now if you did everything you could short of breaking into someone else's a/c to shut the thing off and still couldn't, then sure, cya and go home.

[SJFedor]

That's what I did, talked to the FBO manager, told him I heard a signal and would like to work with him to find it, found it in a storage/maintenance hangar, happened to be a bird they were working on, so they just opened the little trap door and flicked the switch.

Of course, with all the other prior notifications first. If I couldn't have found someone to get into the aircraft legally, I guess I woulda had to wrap the airplane in tin foil and stick a "Your ELT has been found by the Civil Air Patrol" sticker on it.

Almost sounds like a frat prank.

[Ricochet13]

OK . . . .my 2 cents.

Don't care what the regs say . . . if hear a "Mayday" on the frequency (CAP or otherwise), my first priority will be to get to the scene ASAP.  And just so you know . . . I have done that.  Heard the "Mayday", realized it was on a pipeline 3 miles from my house, and I got in the car and went.  Have no regrets, neither did the Grandfather, his wife, and two grandchildren.  Their aircraft had blown a cyclinder and the made a forced landing.  Was first on the scene and found them trying to walk out of a heavily wooded portion of U. S. National Forest.  I got their before they "disappeared" into the woods.  Come on guys, people are our priority!

And so you know, once I had determined no one was injured other than being scared, I called on the local repeater and got another member who happened to also by the wing alerting officer (just lucky), he then contacted AFRCC and dealt with them.  Again, people come first.

Happens that the radio I used wasn't NTIA compliant either, but it was the only thing I had as no cell phone coverage. 

To this day the pilot thanks me every time I see him.

As I said . . . no regrets.

[RiverAux]

Ricochet that is so different from the situation that started this thread it isn't even funny.  I don't think anyone would have a problem with what you did unless you decided to put on your CAP uniform when you went out. 

[lordmonar]

Ricochet that is so different from the situation that started this thread it isn't even funny.  I don't think anyone would have a problem with what you did unless you decided to put on your CAP uniform when you went out. 

No...I got to say...it is part and parcel of the whole discussion.  Why do we say that Ricochet's self deployment is okay but the yahoos in the CAP article was not?

The regulation about self deployment is there to help protect the individuals going out into the woods.  Ricochet was very stupid (but noble) to self deploy.  What would have happened if he got hurt?  Who knew he was out there?

The other reason we have rules about self deployment is because of jurisdictional relationships.  No one wants us poaching in their back yard.

Does this mean we should not help in a real life threatening situation?  No of course not.  What it does mean is that we (CAP) needs to find ways of steam lining the deployment process.  We need to clearly understand where each wing and squadron fits in the overall SAR operations plan and we need to stick to the plan.

Does that mean, if we are sitting at the Airport and an ELT goes off we should wait the 3 ours it take AFRCC to make the call and start the alert process?  NO...it means we call our squadron commander, our wing commander and AFRCC in that order, make sure we have the right number of trained personnel and equipment for the job and we deploy.

The self deployment rules are about safety....our safety....we do not compromise rescuer safety just because.  Unless you actually see the crash with your own eyes...the few minutes it takes to make the calls and assemble the teams will not make that much difference to the victims but can make a world of difference to the rescue team.

[RiverAux]

Why do we say that Ricochet's self deployment is okay but the yahoos in the CAP article was not?

Easy. he apparently did it as a private citizen and not as a CAP member.  He didn't do anything different than any other person would (or should) have done in a similar circumstance. 

The people that started this thread put on CAP uniforms and went out to a non-emegency site (they already knew the people were dead and officials were on scene) and presented themselves as CAP members. 

Totally different situations. 

Does that mean, if we are sitting at the Airport and an ELT goes off we should wait the 3 ours it take AFRCC to make the call and start the alert process?  NO...it means we call our squadron commander, our wing commander and AFRCC in that order, make sure we have the right number of trained personnel and equipment for the job and we deploy.

That is not what the people did who started this thread.  They didn't bother asking anyone's permission.  That is the problem. 

[lordmonar]

Riveraux...I know what you are saying...and I agree...but we should not be letting Ricochet and other self deplorer's off the hook so easily.  They may have deployed as private citizens...but they may have thought they were CAP members.
For their own protection we have got to educate them to this fact.  There is no difference between what ricochet did and those two yahoo in the article.  They all self deployed and we don't do that.  Unless you are an eye witness to the crash/incident you stay put until someone in authority calls you.  You may be proactive by calling your chain of command, even calling up your team members and having them stand by....but being on stand by is not deploying.

[RiverAux]

So, you are taking the position that Ricochet is at all times a CAP member?  Rather than call the county sheriff if I believe an airplane crashed by my house, I need to work my way through the CAP bureacracy? 

There is a huge, huge, huge difference between going to help somebody after an accident as regular Joe Citizen Pilot and doing so under your auspices as a CAP member.  As long as you're not wearing a CAP uniform or in any way representing yourself as a member of CAP, you can go do what you want. 

Sure, our folks need to be educated about these distinctions.

[arajca]

As most of the folks here know, "Mayday" is a call for help. Any station receiving a "Mayday" is obligated to render aid if possible and appropriate for them to do so. Being that close to the location, Ricochet took what I would consider the appropriate steps. There are some details left out, like was he in uniform or driving a CAP vehicle, but the overall incident was properly handled.

Yes, there is a huge difference in being on CAP's time vs. private/non-CAP time, and I think it was properly handled. Notifying the AFRCC is a nice touch, but he could have just as easily called the sheriff to make the notification.