Where is 2010 Winter Board Meeting?

[Spike]

If this were 25 years ago when USAF actually ran CAP, there would be no discussion on these areas.  I was under the impression that CAP uniforms, as long as kept distinctly different from AF uniforms was entirely under CAP control??

I see no other organizations getting this level of heat about wearing a military type uniform.  Look a the US Army Cadet Corps.  You can not tell the difference between one of their Officers and an Army Officer until you are within a foot of said individual. 

Perhaps we need our Congressional members to write a letter to USAF, and tell them to ease up on CAP when it comes to uniforms.

We are all here to serve, yet some of us are prejudiced against and segregated by a Federal Agency that has policies on non-segregation. 

[FW]

Gunner, right now I'm not sure who has "sway" over who.  As of this date, we have 3 retired 3 stars, 1 AD 3 star and 1 AD 2 star on the BoG.  They may not have sway over CAP-USAF however, they may have some pull at the pentagon.  In any event, the 10 current members seated; for better or worse, govern the affairs of CAP.  And, they determine what the bottom line is in determining our future direction.  The NB (and NEC when they are not in session) deals with figuring things out.  CAP-USAF just makes sure we're following the SOW and CO.  The senior AF adviser (also CAP-USAF/CC) serves as a non voting member of the NB and NEC.  He has a say in our affairs however, he has no vote.  HE USUALLY STAY'S NUTERAL IN CAP BUSINESS.  That's why we always get an abstention on every NB/NEC vote.  Officially, his comments are opinions based on what his JA officer perceives as reality.  Until the NB meets, everything we say about this is just speculation.  The NB will probably go into executive session to hear the "truth".  We mortals may never know what that "truth" is but, we will live with the results, now won't we? 

[Gunner C]

WARNING:  Historical Content Follows!

In the 1950s and 60s Special Forces wore green berets in direct violation of regulations.  Department of the Army had told them not to wear them in public.

JFK was paying a visit to Fort Bragg and BG Yarborough decided that he was going for broke - he wore his beret while briefing the president, risking being relieved of command and being court martialled .  After that, JFK designated it as SF's official headgear, hacking off the entire chain of command.

Just as JFK did this for SF (army CoS can't get rid of it) we need congress to exert pressure on SECAF to allow us to design our own uniform.  Of course this will never happen.

(I hope this makes sense - I'm on some pretty powerful pain killers right now.  If I sounded like a blister-head above, disregard all after "Good Morning, Sir".)

[Smithsonia]

I think it is appropriate to note that we are Chartered by the US Congress. This Charter is separate from the Air Force Charter under the National Defense Act of '47.

Our money ($44 mil roughly) is monitored by Air Force Finance and (I think this is right) we are currently a line item in the AF Budget. We are the Air Force Auxiliary in name mostly (and of course by mutual agreement.) So instead  of "ma" blue, we can think ourselves as "ma" Congress/ "Big Brother" Air Force and separate ourselves to be less Air Force and more Congress and/or Homeland Security/FEMA. If this is seen as to be in CAPs best interest then we can/should/could/may (by mutual agreement between CAP and AF) go this route.

This is not a suggestion to this course of action, just a review of the current setup.

[sparks]

Given that we're closer to Congress and Homeland than the Air Force we might be considered a relative of TSA. They have gone through several uniform changes too.

[Spike]

Given that we're closer to Congress and Homeland than the Air Force we might be considered a relative of TSA. They have gone through several uniform changes too.

Actually more like the Red Cross.  A "corporation" with a federal type charter. 

I understand the Air Force is at war, but they really do not use us to the extent they should be.  We can truly be a force multiplier, yet we have to "compell" the Air Force to try us (VSAF).  We all need to feel that our efforts are usefull and appreciated, but lately where has the appreciation been?

We are either entering a good time for CAP and the relationship with the Air Force will become stronger or we are looking down a road where we may eventually end up finding a new parent organization in a few years.

The comments from the USAF representative (CAP-USAF Commander) were contradicting in a few places and arrogant in others. 

I will say that the Boy Scout uniform looks more military than the CAP Distinctive Uniform (grey and whites).  The Air Force needs to make a decision and tell CAP "wear what you want or wear exactly this".  We all do not have the luxury to waste money and time on uniforms that may not exist the day after we purchase them.

Perhaps when the CAP-USAF Commander speaks some questions will be answered.  Now we wait.

[NCRblues]

So since FW seems to be the most "in the loop" member on here ill ask him...

Fw, how much of this are we, the "gen pop" going to be able to see? I want your opinion 25% 50%?

I will also ask you this, do you think its time to have open conversations about this? I never really agreed with closed door meetings, for some things i understand, but for uniform issues? really?

[FW]

I've never been able to watch the live stream before now

From what I've been told, we'll probably be able to watch most of the open session.  I think things will be shut down if the discussion gets a bit spicy.  All the votes though should be on line.  Since I'll be in the audience, I'll try to report any spicy tidbits that might not be streamed.

Closed door meetings should only be about personnel actions.  IMO, Policy discussions should be open.  Most "debate" should be at Region commander's calls anyway.  I still can't believe how long the meetings have become.  This one should be a doozy...

[flyguy06]

I think it is appropriate to note that we are Chartered by the US Congress. This Charter is separate from the Air Force Charter under the National Defense Act of '47.

Our money ($44 mil roughly) is monitored by Air Force Finance and (I think this is right) we are currently a line item in the AF Budget. We are the Air Force Auxiliary in name mostly (and of course by mutual agreement.) So instead  of "ma" blue, we can think ourselves as "ma" Congress/ "Big Brother" Air Force and separate ourselves to be less Air Force and more Congress and/or Homeland Security/FEMA. If this is seen as to be in CAPs best interest then we can/should/could/may (by mutual agreement between CAP and AF) go this route.

This is not a suggestion to this course of action, just a review of the current setup.

So, how do we become more of the Aux of the Air Force? We did used to have a very close relationship withthe USAFwhen I was a cadet in the 80's. what happened?

Ido not profess to know a lot about the politics of CP. I just attend weekly meetings and help out when and where I can. But I wish we had a stronger relationship with the Air Force.

As for uniforms. someone saidthey wished CAP would stop chaning uniforms becaus it is costing members money. I guess I do not understand why it is costing so much money,. I have wornthe same style uniform for 25 years. Just because CAP comes out with a new uniform doesnt mean I "have" to purchase it. Stick with the one you been wearing.

I wear the AF Style unifrom and thats what I will always wear.

[flyguy06]

Ok, so I just read the agenda item in its entierty concerning the CAP distinctive uniform. Here is my question. Why do we need to start a committee to design a new CAP distinctive uniform? We already have the grey slack/white shirt. Why not just keep that one?

[RiverAux]

Because the folks that can't wear the AF-style service dress uniform don't have a coat to wear with the gray/whites on which they can put their ribbons and rank. 

[flyguy06]

Do they nothave the Balzor anymore? What happened  to it?

[PA Guy]

I wear the AF Style unifrom and thats what I will always wear.

Good for you.  But let's say something happened and for some reason you no longer met the CAP MAW. And since CAP doesn't allow taping like AR 600-9 your only CAP uniform option was white/gray with none of your military bling. What would you do? Quit or charge on feeling like a less than complete member?

[SarDragon]

Do they nothave the Balzor anymore? What happened  to it?

Did you mean the Blazer?

Because the folks that can't wear the AF-style service dress uniform don't have a coat to wear with the gray/whites on which they can put their ribbons and rank.

[RiverAux]

Can't wear your ribbons on the blazer and your rank is only a tiny little thing on the nameplate..

[dondiego]

So, how do we become more of the Aux of the Air Force?

I have a much better idea.

Let's get rid of uniforms entirely.  Once and for all.

Then work for the Air Force just like a civilian contractor.

[FW]

^ hahahahahahahahahahahah!
If that happened, there would be nothing left to discuss on CAPTALK. 

[flyguy06]

Can't wear your ribbons on the blazer and your rank is only a tiny little thing on the nameplate..

So? and? So this about people wanting to show off their bling?

[flyguy06]

I wear the AF Style unifrom and that's what I will always wear.

Good for you.  But let's say something happened and for some reason you no longer met the CAP MAW. And since CAP doesn't allow taping like AR 600-9 your only CAP uniform option was white/gray with none of your military bling. What would you do? Quit or charge on feeling like a less than complete member?

If I were no longer able to meet the height and weight, i would wear the Gray pants, white aviator shirt. But I would also try very hard   to get back to height and weight standards.

Brings me to a point I read on the agenda. the CAP-USAF CC alluded to the fact that he didn't care if CAP designed a AF style uniform. his main point was that members need to meet the H&W standards to wear any military style uniform. I concur. I am not saying we All have to be slim and Trim, I know plenty of high speed members that dont meet H&W but are excellent CAPers. Would never want to loose their knowledge and skill. And I think CAP makes provisions for them as well. There is a uniform for everybody.

But I also think that if CAP wants to make a distinctive "uniform" then do that and get rid of the grey slacks/white shirt combo. In otherwords, have one or the other, but we don't need both.

[RiverAux]

Can't wear your ribbons on the blazer and your rank is only a tiny little thing on the nameplate..

So? and? So this about people wanting to show off their bling?

Well, that probably overstates it a little bit.  One could say it was unfair that people who had earned ribbons and rank could not display them because the only uniform option available to them for formal situations requiring a coat did not allow them to be displayed.