Stolen Valor

[Stonewall]

I don't get it. The USAF command pilot? Or the guy with the navy badge? How do you know?

The guy on the left with the SEAL trident.

I know because I played a role in busting him.

[RiverAux]

If you look around on the pownetwork you'll find a few CAP members who've been ID'd... Their actions tarnish everybody

No, their actions do not tarnish CAP any more than they tarnish the reputation of the military service that they claim unentitled honors from.  They are the ones who have lied about their service.

[Fuzzy]

What happened? 2B'ed or just reduction in grade and removal of the badge.

Guessing kicked out if he had to make up paperwork and such.

[Stonewall]

After denying his claims and offering many excuses, it was proven that he was never a SEAL.  He submitted a letter of resignation to his wing commander.

Sad thing is many people, even people on CAP Talk believed to the end that he was a SEAL and one of the best CAP officers they had ever known.  Sad. 

[RiverAux]

Well, not to excuse his lying, but it is still be possible that he could have been performing CAP duties quite well.  Not that I would trust him after the truth came out...

[Stonewall]

Well, not to excuse his lying, but it is still be possible that he could have been performing CAP duties quite well.  Not that I would trust him after the truth came out...

Absolutely.  During the process of busting him I kept thinking that he probably did quite well in CAP, especially after several people gave him kudos for being such a good leader/commander.  Just think, people would have respected him just as much had he not been a "SEAL".

Kind of like my neighbor in DC back in 2002 that I busted.  He had been a support guy in a West Coast SEAL team and decided to start using his knowledge and experience at a SEAL team (not as a SEAL) and tell everyone he was a SEAL.  Thing is, he had a TS clearance and got a great job in DC working for the government.  The claims he made to me were so specific, to include a BUDS class number, that I believed him for about a day.  What he didn't know was his audience.  Not only did I work for the Government too, I had close ties with SOCOM as well as a close friend who retired as a MCPO SEAL that lived in the area.  I snapped a few photos of the "SEALs" uniform hanging in his car and that was enough to close him down.  He lost his clearance and his job. 

[flyboy53]

I guess I'm just so amazed. I really feel sorry for all these fakes, but it really cheapens my service.

I keep remembering the comments of one of my supervisor's, a now retired senior master sergeant, who kept saying that the goal was to make a difference and all the awards and decorations would follow in time. I see all the hardware on these guyes and keep thinking how hard I worked just to get my first Commendation Medal...and then to earn a third one for non-combat valor at a plane crash.

Guess the lesson is to be proud for what you did and make sure it's properly annotated on your discharge. That's why I made sure that the separations/retirement clerk included my badges on my discharge...just so there would never be a question.

[N Harmon]

I don't think it cheapens your service. Only you can do that. I think it reflects poorly on the individual, and would reflect poorly on CAP if we didn't take such fabrications seriously. I'm very happy that CAP does take these things seriously. But we do take it seriously, and there are serious repercussions for people who take valor without earning it.

[Fuzzy]

With the amount of veterans in CAP, those impostors would be wise to stay away from joining. I mean they're just begging to be called out on their lie by the genuine article.

Then again those people are addicted to all that bling anyway and if they were smart they wouldn't go impersonating military folk in the fist place.

[Stonewall]

With the amount of veterans in CAP, those impostors would be wise to stay away from joining. I mean they're just begging to be called out on their lie by the genuine article.

Don't assume that because someone is a veteran of the military that they have the knowledge to call someone's bluff.  Most people that try to sell themselves as something they're not usually shoot for something in Special Operations (SEALs, PJs, Special Forces, Ranger, Force Recon, etc.).  Rarely do people try to come off as a decorated Air Force Security Forces Airman, Navy Sea Bee, Army Water Purification Specialist or Marine Corps Helo Mechanic. 

Although Special Operations has grown in the last 9 years (post 9/11), it's still a very small group.  Most veterans that join CAP do not have a special operations background, thus not familiar enough with that field to call someone out.  There is a certain mystique about special operations forces that often intimidate "outsiders" and make them reluctant to even ask questions about their background.  That's how many of the phonies get away with it.  Most people believe that everything an SOF troop does is highly classified and they can't speak about their training, operations or even equipment.  This, to some extent is true.  But not to the point of there being "secret SEALs" that are off the books or a guy with a Special Forces tab that has a "sealed background".  Even Delta Operators have official Army photos, retire from the Army and have DD214s.  If something truly is secret, it would never be released onto a DD214, nor would the person in question be able to mention; nor should he.

Back to Fuzzy's statement, the opposite is actually true.  You'll find a good number of phonies trying to come across as something they aren't in CAP.  Why?  Because we attract phony glory hounds who want "wann-bes" or "has beens" to look up to them.  In my 20+ years in CAP I have personally come across "Marine Snipers", "SEALs", and a 19 year old "Green Beret" from Ft. Bragg Number 2, a secret base in Kentucky and a "Vietnam LRRP Ranger" who had never been in the Army.  He was also a convicted sex offender.  Something we found out after he left CAP.

Often you'll find genuine military veterans who "expand" their legitimate backgrounds to impress people since they know that being a Services Specialist, Public Health Technician or Security Forces dude isn't that exciting.  When you see someone that was a Master at Arms in the Navy wearing a SCUBA bubble or Navy Jump Wings, you may want to start exploring their background.

One final story and I'll shut up.  In 2002/3 a former cadet of mine that was often a pain in the butt, along with his 2 younger brothers, mom and father (as CC) joined the Army Reserves as a Generator Repair Specialist.  He showed up about 6 months later at the squadron wanting to re-join as a Senior Member.  I was out of the area for a while because I was overseas so he thought that gave him free reign to make up some stories.  He talked about earning a Bronze Star because he saved his first sergeant in a fire fight in Afghanistan and mentioned how he held his best friend who died in his arms.  He went so far as to pass around photos of caves with captured Al Qaeda weapons, which clearly showed Navy SEALs in the picture.  Needless to say I confronted him and never turned in his SM application.

[funsize]

You are absolutely correct about all the "wannabees" in this organization, that are looking to self satisfy by a power trip. In my many years 40+ in the CAP I have found so many cases of this. Unfortunately we do not have the powers to be, to be able to check all the stories of this type of thing. There are members of Florida Wing that have been caught and all that happens is a slap on the hand and told not to wear the medals any more. CAP must be pretty hard up to keep liars in this organization. There are just as many impersonators saying they are attorneys and judges, etc. and we believe them and put Capt and above on them, while you have the true core of CAP the workers that actually join and start from the bottom take all the classes and jump through the hoop, put up with the BS from the above mentioned members and these are truly the ones that deserve to wear the grade, not the wannabees................Go figure............Sore subject with many members.

[capchiro]

You won't see any fake lawyers or judges in our wing.  My wife is the Wing Legal Officer and she checks credentials very carefully.  She did have one a few years ago that was trying to slip through, but she put a quick stop to it.  We all need to do our job regarding this.  My dad was WWII 8th AF and well decorated.  My oldest graduated from the AFA in 1991.  I was Army 67-69, Viet Nam era, but never in country.  Proud of my service and proud of everyone else's service, including CAP..

[funsize]

It would be fantastic if someone would do this in every wing. Florida is known to be corrupt though. To many politics involved. Have you ever heard of main staff positions being filled by members from other states?? Well, some of us just sit back, watch and wait for the fall!! Maybe one day either SER or NHQ can figure it out. Yes there is too much "FAKE" now in the organization and honestly it is promoted by our so called commanders. Can we Floridians transfer to Georgia..............   

[raivo]

It would be fantastic if someone would do this in every wing. Florida is known to be corrupt though. To many politics involved. Have you ever heard of main staff positions being filled by members from other states?? Well, some of us just sit back, watch and wait for the fall!! Maybe one day either SER or NHQ can figure it out. Yes there is too much "FAKE" now in the organization and honestly it is promoted by our so called commanders. Can we Floridians transfer to Georgia..............

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

If you look around on the pownetwork you'll find a few CAP members who've been ID'd... Their actions tarnish everybody

Like this guy...

Why is that dude (Aka: Captain) wearing a SEALs Badge? I do not think you are allowed to even wear other Military Badges (Other than ribbons) on your uniform.

[raivo]

Why is that dude (Aka: Captain) wearing a SEALs Badge? I do not think you are allowed to even wear other Military Badges (Other than ribbons) on your uniform.

Table 6-5. US Military Badges Authorized on CAP Service Uniforms and BDUs
1 US Military Aeronautical Badges
2 Air Force Occupational Badges
3 Combat Infantry or Army Medical Badge
4 US Army Air Assault Badge and Path Finder Badge
5 Parachute Riggers Badge
6 Scuba Badge
7 Distinguished International Shooter Badge
8 Air Force Distinguished Rifleman and Pistol Shot Badge
9 Silver Excellence-in-Competition Rifle and Pistol Badge with Wreath
10 Bronze Excellence-in-Competition Rifle and Pistol Badge With or Without Wreath
11 Office of the Secretary of Defense Badge
12 Joint Chief of Staff Identification Badge
13 Presidential Service Badge or Vice-Presidential Service Badge
14 Excellence-in-Competition Badge

You can, but I don't think the SEAL badge would be allowed, since it's not an aeronautical badge and occupational badges from other branches aren't allowed.

[C/MSgt Lunsford]

Okay.

Seriously, why did this guy impersonate as a CAP Member. Why not the Air Force, Marines, Army, Navy. Maybe to stay under radar. I don't know.

[Gunner C]

The list above is neither exhaustive nor realistic.  It's obviously put together by people (probably two) who served in the Army and the Air Force.  There's nothing for the Navy on there (therefore Marines either).  A SEAL trident (or UDT if Gov Jesse Ventura shows up) would be difficult to turn down.

But there's another point.  There's famous folks, like Ventura, who claim to be SEALs and weren't.  He was a UDT guy.  Yes, UDT was later incorporated into SEALS (in the 19080s IIRC).  They took UDTs, sent them to jump school, and ::::poof:::: they were SEALs.  He claims "SEALhood" but he wasn't, he's a leg. 

At NC007, we had several guys who where in SF, one guy who was from 360th SOAR, and a bunch of others who were just regular guys in the Army and AF.  But here's the key - everyone acted like a regular guy.  When someone acts like they're something special, they're usually not.  I was in SF for 20 years.  So what?  I had to go through observer and GT training just like everyone else.  A wannabe will rest on his laurels and not participate in training much, real guy (that means everyone here) has fun, becomes part of the team, learns, steps on his poncho from time to time, and helps others in the process.

[flyguy06]

With the amount of veterans in CAP, those impostors would be wise to stay away from joining. I mean they're just begging to be called out on their lie by the genuine article.

Don't assume that because someone is a veteran of the military that they have the knowledge to call someone's bluff.  Most people that try to sell themselves as something they're not usually shoot for something in Special Operations (SEALs, PJs, Special Forces, Ranger, Force Recon, etc.).  Rarely do people try to come off as a decorated Air Force Security Forces Airman, Navy Sea Bee, Army Water Purification Specialist or Marine Corps Helo Mechanic. 

Although Special Operations has grown in the last 9 years (post 9/11), it's still a very small group.  Most veterans that join CAP do not have a special operations background, thus not familiar enough with that field to call someone out.  There is a certain mystique about special operations forces that often intimidate "outsiders" and make them reluctant to even ask questions about their background.  That's how many of the phonies get away with it.  Most people believe that everything an SOF troop does is highly classified and they can't speak about their training, operations or even equipment.  This, to some extent is true.  But not to the point of there being "secret SEALs" that are off the books or a guy with a Special Forces tab that has a "sealed background".  Even Delta Operators have official Army photos, retire from the Army and have DD214s.  If something truly is secret, it would never be released onto a DD214, nor would the person in question be able to mention; nor should he.

Back to Fuzzy's statement, the opposite is actually true.  You'll find a good number of phonies trying to come across as something they aren't in CAP.  Why?  Because we attract phony glory hounds who want "wann-bes" or "has beens" to look up to them.  In my 20+ years in CAP I have personally come across "Marine Snipers", "SEALs", and a 19 year old "Green Beret" from Ft. Bragg Number 2, a secret base in Kentucky and a "Vietnam LRRP Ranger" who had never been in the Army.  He was also a convicted sex offender.  Something we found out after he left CAP.

Often you'll find genuine military veterans who "expand" their legitimate backgrounds to impress people since they know that being a Services Specialist, Public Health Technician or Security Forces dude isn't that exciting.  When you see someone that was a Master at Arms in the Navy wearing a SCUBA bubble or Navy Jump Wings, you may want to start exploring their background.

One final story and I'll shut up.  In 2002/3 a former cadet of mine that was often a pain in the butt, along with his 2 younger brothers, mom and father (as CC) joined the Army Reserves as a Generator Repair Specialist.  He showed up about 6 months later at the squadron wanting to re-join as a Senior Member.  I was out of the area for a while because I was overseas so he thought that gave him free reign to make up some stories.  He talked about earning a Bronze Star because he saved his first sergeant in a fire fight in Afghanistan and mentioned how he held his best friend who died in his arms.  He went so far as to pass around photos of caves with captured Al Qaeda weapons, which clearly showed Navy SEALs in the picture.  Needless to say I confronted him and never turned in his SM application.

Man, Stonewall, you have busted a lot of people huh?

[Major Carrales]

OK,

A few years back some people posted some obviously "faux" photos of people from "public domain" stock companies showing men and women in uniforms with obvious uniform violations.  Things such as...


When I mentioned that the reason for the obvious errors was so they wouldn't be mistaken for items of this issue I was told by many of you that I didn't know what I was talking about.

It appears as if I was correct on this matter, that they were made that way purposely to avoid punishment.