Virginia Wing's "Wing Bank Solution"

Started by Ladyhawk, August 23, 2006, 10:07:20 PM

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Eclipse

I want to add an additional point to this - how much is "too much" to ask a unit or event CC to layout of personal funds?

That seems to be NHQ's answer for slow pay out of Wing - the members simplay pay the bill and request reinburseiment.

Right.

I have members NOW who are owed hundreds of dollars in gas money for years because Wing can't get its act together financially.

I am also the CC of an encampment.  Up until now, this hasn't been much of an issue, because we filtered the money for the event through a local account - this will no longer be allowed.

The Navy mess halls have a non-negotiable rule that says we have to pay for each meal with a seperate check based on the count for each meal, which varies.

So, that means we either have to have a Wing signatory at the event for its entirety (not likely), or I'm supposed to front about  $5000 in CASH (no credit cards not accepted) because some jokers out East and West stole money from their pizza fundraisers?

I would consider fronting it on a credit card, but CASH?  No way?  That actually COSTS >ME< money in lost interest, assuming I have the money to start with.

This would be a BAD idea if we were a fully staffed organization with members who are fully engaged in the singular task of finance.  We're not.

What should have happened was to put in place better controls, and real internal ramifications for units that don't comply, but like everything else CAP, they are swinging the pendulm all the way around, instead of addressing the issue head-on.

Heck - they >DID< provide Quicken to each unit? Right?  Oooops, some FM's dont' even OWN a computer, and have no interest in touching one. Hmmm...


"That Others May Zoom"

arajca

Activities are a separate issue. From what I've been told, activities will get a separate, short term account with checkbook. The signers would be the activity cc and whoever is doing the finance for it.

As for units owing wings money, part of the issue is the policy that units pay for fuel used for their corporate vehicles, which is purchased on a wing credit card. Some units have not been doing that. OTher units enter into an agreement with wing to split hte cost of hangering a/c. Wing writes the check for the whole thing (many small airports won't split the bill) and invoice the unit for their share. The unit doesn't pay the wing back. In both of these cases, the authorization already exists via the regs and agreements, so it would not be out of line for the wing to ensure the units bills get paid - even if the money is owed to the wing. Providing, of course, proper notification is sent to the unit.

As for dividing the interest, it's a spreadsheet calculation. I do it at work with a couple of accounts my dept. has. They are split among 25-30 different departments based on a varying percentage set twice a year. The amount each get billed for differs, but the percentage remains the same.

mikeylikey

Quote from: Eclipse on August 27, 2006, 07:58:46 PM
Quote from: arajca on August 27, 2006, 12:34:46 AM
One benefit to the wing is those units who owe wing money will have it taken straight out of their account. Currently, in CO, some units owe wing a substantial amount of money and have refused to pay it.

And don't look to the Wing Administrators to do this work, as many wings seem to think, including ILWG.  The wing admins are simply administrative >assistants< to the Wing Commander and staff.  They have ZEE-RO authority, and in most cases aren't even members.  They can't write checks, dispense funds, or approve ANYTHING.  All they can do is type the forms and put them on someone's desk.

We're doing that today and still can't get things done.


??  Please call your Wing Admin and see what he or she can realy do!  They are in no way "assistants", and can do more than most of the volunteer staff.  In fact, they can even sign checks if need be.   
What's up monkeys?

Pylon

Quote from: mikeylikey on August 27, 2006, 11:57:02 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 27, 2006, 07:58:46 PM
Quote from: arajca on August 27, 2006, 12:34:46 AM
One benefit to the wing is those units who owe wing money will have it taken straight out of their account. Currently, in CO, some units owe wing a substantial amount of money and have refused to pay it.

And don't look to the Wing Administrators to do this work, as many wings seem to think, including ILWG.  The wing admins are simply administrative >assistants< to the Wing Commander and staff.  They have ZEE-RO authority, and in most cases aren't even members.  They can't write checks, dispense funds, or approve ANYTHING.  All they can do is type the forms and put them on someone's desk.

We're doing that today and still can't get things done.


??  Please call your Wing Admin and see what he or she can realy do!  They are in no way "assistants", and can do more than most of the volunteer staff.  In fact, they can even sign checks if need be.   

People forget that not all Wing's have these.
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

NIN

Quote from: Pylon on August 28, 2006, 12:44:48 AM
People forget that not all Wing's have these.

IIRC, they all do, or are in the process of, getting them

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

Quote from: arajca on August 27, 2006, 11:26:57 PM
Activities are a separate issue. From what I've been told, activities will get a separate, short term account with checkbook. The signers would be the activity cc and whoever is doing the finance for it.

I don't think that is correct, in fact, encampments are no longer allowed NOW to have seperate accounts, which, without this other Wing Bank nonsense, was gearing to be a PITA in and of itself.

"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

Quote from: mikeylikey on August 27, 2006, 11:57:02 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 27, 2006, 07:58:46 PM
Quote from: arajca on August 27, 2006, 12:34:46 AM
One benefit to the wing is those units who owe wing money will have it taken straight out of their account. Currently, in CO, some units owe wing a substantial amount of money and have refused to pay it.

And don’t look to the Wing Administrators to do this work, as many wings seem to think, including ILWG.  The wing admins are simply administrative >assistants< to the Wing Commander and staff.  They have ZEE-RO authority, and in most cases aren’t even members.  They can’t write checks, dispense funds, or approve ANYTHING.  All they can do is type the forms and put them on someone’s desk.

We’re doing that today and still can’t get things done.


??  Please call your Wing Admin and see what he or she can realy do!  They are in no way "assistants", and can do more than most of the volunteer staff.  In fact, they can even sign checks if need be.   

Under what authority would a WA, who isn't even a member, be able to sign checks?

Checks have to be dually (sp?) signed by two officers of the unit. and those signing would have to be both authorized as part of the finance committe and on the account itself at the bank.

In fact, the Wing admins are not allowed to be Unit CC's specifically because of the control over money issue.  Check it out on the KB.

"That Others May Zoom"

CAP Producer

Bob,

the way we do it at encampment is to get blank checks from the wing's CP account. (wing is supposed to maintain seperate accounts for CP, overhead and operations (Planes)) make sure that the encampment CC and another officer are on teh signature card and go to town.

When you do your finance report to wing give back the blank and unsigned checks with a check log/reciepts for every check issued and wing finance can enter them into quickbooks and everybody is happy.

No fuss and no muss.
AL PABON, Major, CAP

CAP Producer

Quote from: Eclipse on August 28, 2006, 02:50:12 AM
Quote from: mikeylikey on August 27, 2006, 11:57:02 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 27, 2006, 07:58:46 PM
Quote from: arajca on August 27, 2006, 12:34:46 AM
One benefit to the wing is those units who owe wing money will have it taken straight out of their account. Currently, in CO, some units owe wing a substantial amount of money and have refused to pay it.

And don't look to the Wing Administrators to do this work, as many wings seem to think, including ILWG.  The wing admins are simply administrative >assistants< to the Wing Commander and staff.  They have ZEE-RO authority, and in most cases aren't even members.  They can't write checks, dispense funds, or approve ANYTHING.  All they can do is type the forms and put them on someone's desk.

We're doing that today and still can't get things done.


??  Please call your Wing Admin and see what he or she can realy do!  They are in no way "assistants", and can do more than most of the volunteer staff.  In fact, they can even sign checks if need be.   

Under what authority would a WA, who isn't even a member, be able to sign checks?

Checks have to be dually (sp?) signed by two officers of the unit. and those signing would have to be both authorized as part of the finance committe and on the account itself at the bank.

In fact, the Wing admins are not allowed to be Unit CC's specifically because of the control over money issue.  Check it out on the KB.

WA's are not authorized to sign checks. they can  do everything (AR and AP) else but cannot approve expenditures. This is VERBOTEN!!!!!!!
AL PABON, Major, CAP

NIN

Quote from: Eclipse on August 28, 2006, 02:45:32 AM
Quote from: arajca on August 27, 2006, 11:26:57 PM
Activities are a separate issue. From what I've been told, activities will get a separate, short term account with checkbook. The signers would be the activity cc and whoever is doing the finance for it.

I don't think that is correct, in fact, encampments are no longer allowed NOW to have seperate accounts, which, without this other Wing Bank nonsense, was gearing to be a PITA in and of itself.

Maybe in your wing, but in mine, the encampment had a separate account with its own checkbook.  Like we were a chartered unit, we adhered to the same rules (finance committee, 2 signers, etc), but it was the encampment's bank.

Your wing should have a similar thing.  In this case, its about flexibility.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
I have no responsibilities whatsoever
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2024 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

Up until this point, its been fine, but I was under the impression that this was a national directive regarding elmination seperate accounts.

That's an intreresting idea about setting up a seperate charter, though.
In fact, we have an inactive charter we might be able rename and light back up. 

Very interesting idea indeed.

"That Others May Zoom"

BlackKnight

#31
...
Phil Boylan, Maj, CAP
DCS, Rome Composite Sqdn - GA043
http://www.romecap.org/

Eclipse

Quote from: BlackKnight on August 29, 2006, 02:25:15 AM
First... Our unit (chartered during WWII, then recharted in the early 1960s) may indeed FOLD under this plan. And quickly. As I explained earlier it will wipe out our funding completely, effective October 2006.  T

I'm as staunchly opposed to this as anyone, and I >WON'T turn over my money voluntarily until many questions, including those related to things raised here are answered, in writing.

But how does this plan wipe out your funding?

"That Others May Zoom"

Eclipse

Somethig else I just thought of,

We've been seriously discussing setting up a merchant account or using PayPal to process payments for some of the bigger events like encampments.

I imagine this will all but ki-bosh that idea.

"That Others May Zoom"

lordmonar

Okay....let me caveat that I have never worked with this program yet and don't know all the ins and outs of it.

With that said....if you don't trust your wing on their say so....join the wing Finance staff and write a WING OI or sup to the CAPR, stating that squadron money will only be used to pay for squadron bills to wing or will be disbursed to the squadron.

Also you have got to remember......Eclipse, BlackKnight....its not your money....you may have raised it and you may have used it for your squadron's activiteis....but legally it is CAP's money.

CAP is legally obligated to account for all of its money including the moneys raised and spent at the squadron level.

Currently there is no way of doing that....this is attempt to fix that problem.

Instead of fighting it.....find a way to better account for all the money (not just your squadrons) and move from there.

A suggestion I can think of off the top of my head...is that wings should designate a statewide bank that every squadron has access to and then give the wing audit authority.

That way they can see what you are doing and call up at anytime a bottom line.  I don't know if this sort of thing is even possible but it can be check out.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

BlackKnight

#35
...
Phil Boylan, Maj, CAP
DCS, Rome Composite Sqdn - GA043
http://www.romecap.org/

BlackKnight

#36
...
Phil Boylan, Maj, CAP
DCS, Rome Composite Sqdn - GA043
http://www.romecap.org/

mikeylikey

Quote from: BlackKnight on August 29, 2006, 12:35:46 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on August 29, 2006, 03:39:14 AM
Quote from: BlackKnight on August 29, 2006, 02:25:15 AM
First... Our unit (chartered during WWII, then recharted in the early 1960s) may indeed FOLD under this plan. And quickly. As I explained earlier it will wipe out our funding completely, effective October 2006.  T

I'm as staunchly opposed to this as anyone, and I >WON'T turn over my money voluntarily until many questions, including those related to things raised here are answered, in writing.

But how does this plan wipe out your funding?

Capt.,  see my original post on page 1 of this thread.  The majority of my squadron's funding is from local government, with another 10% or so from local civic organizations.  We have squadron members who hold seats on the airport commission and others who are members of our benefacting civic groups.  When these organizations discover that our local squadron cannot ensure that contributions are spent as designated by the grant contract that funding will terminate.  (There may even be lawsuits to recover funds already given.) The county government has many deserving requests for funding and they cannot politically afford to be caught sending taxpayer dollars out of the county or knowingly putting funds at risk. Ditto for the local civic organizations. We've already been told this informally (and bluntly) by CAP members who hold positions of authority in these other organizations. 

Now I realize that to a lawyer or CPA, nothing has changed. Per the fine print all funds and donations have always 'belonged' to CAP NHQ. However, local control provided a level of personal assurance and accountability that donated funds would be used as intended. There has always been an implied understanding that if CAP NHQ exercised their "funds seizure option" that would be the last time those organizations would consider donating to CAP.

In the final analysis it doesn't matter how efficient or well run the wing bank is.  In our particular case loss of local control means loss of local funding. Period.  We'll find ourselves spending most of our time on bake sales and car washes instead of ES training.  NHQ needs to find another way. The current plan is a PR disaster at the local level.


Prepare a list that shows what you would use your money on, and say here "civic organization" is what we intend to use your money on.  Take the same list and say hey "Wing HQ" here is what we intend to buy.  Go to "big box retail store" and say I intend to but this junk, place it aside and bill Wing HQ.  I will then come back and pick it up".  Most retailers will work in this fasion, some may not.  There is nothing in the plan that says you can not send a recurring or corporate account bill to Wing for them to pay directly. 

I feel bad that you are giving your members that sit on these civic and charity boards the wrong impression about the plan before you know all of the details.  If they decide to walk because of it, it is your fault for not being a supporter of the plan from the beginning. 

HERE is the best advice I can give everyone.  SUPPORT the plan, even if you do not agree with it, and if it truly is a bad plan it will FAIL on its own, without you causing it to fail.  THEN you can say "I supported it, it is just a bad plan"
What's up monkeys?

capchiro

I do believe that Phil has seen the manual for this program and fully understands how it works and I think we should give him credit for knowing his squadron and donors well enough to know how this will impact his squadron.  I was at a meeting the other day and about half of the squadrons said they don't have any funds.  This floored me.  How does anyone run a squadron without funds?  As a Composite squadron, I have to obtain rank, ribbons, various awards, and other incidentals at a cost of about $2,500.00 to $3,000.00 per year, not to mention Christmas Parties, etc.  I just don't see how any squadron runs without supplies, etc.  Perhaps these squadrons are really doing some creative financing to make it look like they don't have any funding.  Anyhow, I think we should give Phil the credit to know what is going on in his squadron and not bust his chops about his concerns.  By the way, I doubt if Wal-mart or the local army-navy or Vanguard will sit on your order while you obtain funding from Wing.  JMHO
Lt. Col. Harry E. Siegrist III, CAP
Commander
Sweetwater Comp. Sqdn.
GA154

BlackKnight

#39
...
Phil Boylan, Maj, CAP
DCS, Rome Composite Sqdn - GA043
http://www.romecap.org/