Can the Uniform Policy save the Credibility of the CAP?

[Pumbaa]

When we had the NER SAREX last summer at the ANG base in Westover Ma.  I was asked by the AF PAO why so many uniforms.  He never mentioned any uniform fopas, though I saw quite a few. 

I was part of the PAO team and it was mandated before that the PAO team all wore grays and short sleeve aviators, all ribbons.  As a team we looked really good.. uniform.... This accommodated me.. fuzzy... the Capt.. then fat.. we had other members who could have worn the AF, but we wanted to look like a team, so although I could have shaved, then we could have worn the TPU, we opted for the 'uniform' that would apply to all of us regardless.

Looking out over the hanger when I saw some aircrews in Sage, some in blue flight suits, I even saw a smurf suit.  Same with the BDU's.  With 200 people it looked pretty rag tag in my mind.  So I would say for at least the adults, let's get down to one common option on uniforms based on activity. Dress, Ground, Aircrew.

That said....
Still the reviews from the Brig Gen of the base was he was amazed at the skills and professionalism, from the youngest cadet on up.  His parting comment to the PAO team was.  "It's good to know if I go down, (he's a pilot) you guys will be looking for me".

So here we did have a sea of uniforms, infractions, etc.. But a Big Gen from mama blue saw the skills and desire to serve.

Am I saying uniforms are not important.. nope.. we should ignore infractions.. heck no.  Just saying that people can see beyond.  That we need to be on our game and exude professionalism in what we do.

[Eclipse]

If someone shows up with a minor or a major uniform malfunction.....why is someone not talking to them?

If they show up 3-4 times with the same problem...that is a leadership issue not a attention to detail issue.

You are 100% correct.

[stratoflyer]

I think that the comment from 1LT F. & F. two posts above hits it pretty well. I was also amazed at the number of replies to this thread!

This thread started out pretty aggressively and all I have to say is this: I will invoke those submarine chasers and say those were brave and honorable citizens who have set a standard that I try to meet in performing my CAP duties. And I do believe CAP serves to this day with the same mindset: to do what is necessary as volunteers to serve our nation.

Truth be told, there are many things wrong that need fixing. But that has to be expected in such a large organization. True, there should be an easier way for us to communicate our thoughts to those decision makers up the chain of command. But even so they do listen: take a good read at the thousands of posts here and you will catch glimpses of how the higher-ups do listen!

Let me also say that in very few organizations do you see volunteers as dedicated and as selfless as the men and women of CAP. Our members try the very best to perform their duties to the best of their abilities. I have not seen anybody here for only personal glory--at least no one that has lasted. I only saw 2 people ever in 9 years with CAP that were power hungry and they crumbled under their own weight. Even so they were never in any position to cause any real harm.

Speaking of missions: we have three--count them: 3. Aerospace education is more crucial today than ever because anyone alert to our nation's education system knows, more and more kids are losing interest in math and science: crucial areas to our aerospace sectors. Cadet programs forges better citizens and leaders that in many ways improves our nation. And of course, emergency services is, well, you guys know. We do save lives.

Our credibility? I think if people get to know us, we are perhaps among the most important organizations in this country. Uniform policy? It comes and goes. Whatever it is, it is up to all of us to do it right.

And one last thing. This forum is a place of healthy debate and learning. God knows how many opinions I had were quickly changed upon reading and learning from others. That's why I come to this site--to learn and discuss. That is one way we can make CAP better. And like I said before: the brass does listen. Another way: go to conferences. Get out there and be active. Don't talk about mission pilot qualifications if you don't even have a sport pilot license! Not unless you want to help out and volunteer as a mission pilot.

Hey, to those who bring baggage to this site: Leave it at the door. Come here to learn and have an open mind. Being a member of CAP requires us to have an open mind: open to new ideas, new solutions, and new challenges.  Most of all be positive! This is a great organization and I am real proud of being a member, no matter how small my contribution may be!

Semper Vigilans

[D242]

Slightly off topic, but points out how uniform wear relates to organizational credibility--At 5:30 a.m. this morning I went through the TSA security line at KBOS . First, I noticed that they wear epaulets. Some had one stripe; the most I saw was three. I guess they have some sort of rank structure?

Anyway, they wear a metal nameplate on the right hand side of the shirt. The lady with three stripes was wearing hers upside-down. (Had I not been reading this thread, I may never have noticed, and we had a laugh about it. We agree it was so she could look down and read it in case she forgot her own name. She fixed it right then and there.)   

[Hawk200]

First, I noticed that they wear epaulets. Some had one stripe; the most I saw was three. I guess they have some sort of rank structure?

I don't know how TSA does it, but in Federal agencies it's a pay grade indicator, with "rank" following the pay grade. One of the instructors for one of those agencies told his students, "A GS-9 takes directions from a GS-13." They wear what looks like traditional military rank insignia, but they don't go by "lieutenant", "captain" or "major". I imagine that the TSA system is similar, but I really don't know.

[flyguy06]

To answer the topic:
It can help, but more important is having members that will follow the policy. If you look at most of the arguments over uniform policy - excluding the dreams - they fall into "following the reg as written" vs "follow the reg as I interpret it". I fall into the first group.

A sensible policy - meaning one equal uniform for ewach AF combo atuhorized - will work wonders for CAP.

Really?  I would think it would be more important to have a membership who are more concerned about the core mission of CAP than the dogmatic uniform policy.

You can pin all the medals and ribbons with their lavender epaulets and it won't make a sliver difference in what is at the core of the person.

In fact I would argue that someone who browbeats everyone over uniform policy actually chases off individuals who are there for the core mission of CAP.

Having stated the above, I think you missed the real question and task of the initial message.

I for one am not in CAP for ES. I am in it for cadets.Therefore, uniforms and appearence are important to me. Its the example we set for our cadets that make them into better leaders. i am in CAP to encourage young people to pursue careers in the Air Force or aviation (As pilots) Thats why i am in CAP. ES is nice and I do it as a secondary interetst. but my primary interest is cadet programs.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

I for one am not in CAP for ES. I am in it for cadets.Therefore, uniforms and appearence are important to me. Its the example we set for our cadets that make them into better leaders. i am in CAP to encourage young people to pursue careers in the Air Force or aviation (As pilots) Thats why i am in CAP. ES is nice and I do it as a secondary interetst. but my primary interest is cadet programs.

After a long break from my cadet years, I re-joined to work with cadets. I got into Ground Team to support my cadets in their participation in the ES mission.

That said, in many states any non-ELT SAR is with uniformed state agencies. (In RI it is State Police, local PD or FD, Dept of Environmental Management.) If we are going to show up in uniform, we need to look uniform. From the really obvious like name tape and CAP tape on the wrong sides to more subtle like variations on the amount ultramarine blue around grade and badges. No one is going to break out the ruler at the check-in site for a missing person search, but first impressions are lasting.

[flyguy06]

wel, we focus more on aviation (flying) and Color Guard things. We could do the GT thing if we had people wiling to teach it and go out wit them

[JRChristenson]

Maybe if Civilian Pilot (who has definitely proven himself of questionable intelligence) would stop polluting the forums with his uninformed and illogical arguments, we could spend more time discussing topics on the ES board instead of wasting time being distracted by his irrelevant concerns.  He obviously has NO idea what he's talking about (though to be honest, I couldn't read this entire thread... it was just too painful and I felt my IQ dropping with each bold word I read.

[Gunner C]

First, I noticed that they wear epaulets. Some had one stripe; the most I saw was three. I guess they have some sort of rank structure?

I don't know how TSA does it, but in Federal agencies it's a pay grade indicator, with "rank" following the pay grade. One of the instructors for one of those agencies told his students, "A GS-9 takes directions from a GS-13." They wear what looks like traditional military rank insignia, but they don't go by "lieutenant", "captain" or "major". I imagine that the TSA system is similar, but I really don't know.

The folks in uniform are either TSOs (Transportation Security Officers), LTSOs (Lead TSOs), or STSOs (Supervisory TSOs).  These are the one, two, or three stripes you see.

GC

[D242]

Thank you. I have now learned my "something new" for today.   

[Pumbaa]

Interesting the OP of this thread has not posted nor logged on for 2 weeks now....

Talk about a hit and run, Troll....

Seems in the uniform thread, the bait is easy to put out and the hook set...  Just feed out the line...

[Civilian_Pilot]

Interesting the OP of this thread has not posted nor logged on for 2 weeks now....

Talk about a hit and run, Troll....

Seems in the uniform thread, the bait is easy to put out and the hook set...  Just feed out the line...

Actually genius, I have been flying overseas for most of the two weeks followed by a couple days of pre-position Gustav disaster relief flights.

You know, the kind of stuff you only dream of.

[MIKE]

Enough.