CAP-Agency vs CAP-Club - the real issue in Iowa

[isuhawkeye]

^^^And there in lies the rub

Wonder why I have been so concerned about this debacle

[Johnny Yuma]

You a bit of a reality check, Dear Johnny.

The stregth of any organization like CAP is in local training, "balkanization" indeed.  I woudl much rather my unit's officers save their travel money for REDCAPS than centralized training 500 miles away.

There's USAF money for training. All it takes is a Form 10 approved. Besides, a Wing like IAWG gets funding to reimburse for travel to and from WTA's, so the money issue's moot.

The problem isn't in local training, it's the fact they won't respond or train anywhere else. I know of units who will not attend Wing SAREXes or actual missions unless they're held in their area, even when the funding's there.

Other units are putting 3-5K on their vehicles in some months picking up the slack.

This is  the observation of one wing, but from conversations with other wings this isn't unusual.

Failure to evenly develop a CAP WING by making local areas capable of training their CAP Officers and Cadets will result in a loss of mobilization.  CAP is a volunteer organization, many have families and jobs.  Picking up a unit and moving 700 miles away to train in TEXAS will result in expending member funds.  I would rather that personal money be spent when a REDCAP comes along.

My Wing has a huge hole in the Western third of the state with perhaps 100,000 people to recruit from in an area of 300,000 square miles. Yes, there are members out there but so spread out they're having to organize flights attached to larger units to the East because they cannot get chartered.

An approved form 10 gets you funding for travel.

Our unit gets no funding from any State source, 90 percent of the expense is from member wallets because they believe in what they are doing.  They want to ambitiously organize local training, this keeps them active.

Again, an approved CAPF 10 gets you funding to go anywhere in or out of your Wing to train with all sorts of other people.

Bottom line is, when the time comes to "come together" on a massive scale, we will be there.  We will also be well trained in that we have been training and have the trainers in our units.

[Major Carrales]

c. USAF-Assigned Training and Evaluation Mission Requesting Procedures. For required evaluations the liaison region commander will coordinate with the wing commander to establish an appropriate date(s) for the evaluation. For evaluations, and training missions the wing/region commander will plan and estimate the cost of the mission and, in each case will complete a copy of CAPF 10. A Sample CAPF 10 can be found in CAPR 60-4, Volume II.
CAPR 60-3 26 MAY 2004 19
1) The CAP wing/region commander prepares a CAPF 10 to include a detailed training scenario and forwards it to the wing liaison office. After approval by the wing liaison office, the request is forwarded to the CAP-USAF liaison region. The CAPF 10 must arrive at the CAP-USAF liaison region at least 30 days prior to the activity date.
2) If approved, the CAP-USAF liaison region will complete the appropriate blocks and return a copy of the form to the wing liaison office. This mission authorization includes a mission number and a fund cite for the estimated reimbursement authorized for the mission. Claimed expenditures will not be reimbursed above the estimated amount specified in block 2 on the CAPF 10 without specific approval of the CAP-USAF liaison region.
3) After completion of the mission, claimed reimbursement should be summarized on the CAPF 10 by the wing liaison office and returned to the CAP-USAF liaison region.

CAPF 10s and CAP108s are for mission reimbursement for the flying and driving during a mission, not for members driving to the mission.  If this was so, the $8000 given by the USAF would be used up by paying for personal transport to the mission base or staging areas.

[isuhawkeye]

Members can file a form 108 for their POV

[LittleIronPilot]

Members can file a form 108 for their POV

Yup...it is done in Georgia for exercises outside of your "area'.

BTW...I am STRONGLY in the Agency camp. If I wanted a club I would join one, I want a professional organization and am glad to see it heading more in that direction.

[Eclipse]

Ditto on 108's for transport to/from.

That's the norm, those running the training just have to budget it for it,

[LittleIronPilot]

Ditto on 108's for transport to/from.

That's the norm, those running the training just have to budget it for it,

POV transport....however they do not pay for POA (Personally Owned Aircraft) travel dangit! LOL

[isuhawkeye]

they certainly can.  however most wings place a restriction on that, but if all wing aircraft are in useyou could certainly justify funding a private aircraft

[LittleIronPilot]

they certainly can.  however most wings place a restriction on that, but if all wing aircraft are in useyou could certainly justify funding a private aircraft

Oh I am sure they can, but it is usually not done due to the expense.

I prefer to fly my aircraft to the SAREX's if possible, just because a plane needs to fly and not sit.

[Johnny Yuma]

c. USAF-Assigned Training and Evaluation Mission Requesting Procedures. For required evaluations the liaison region commander will coordinate with the wing commander to establish an appropriate date(s) for the evaluation. For evaluations, and training missions the wing/region commander will plan and estimate the cost of the mission and, in each case will complete a copy of CAPF 10. A Sample CAPF 10 can be found in CAPR 60-4, Volume II.
CAPR 60-3 26 MAY 2004 19
1) The CAP wing/region commander prepares a CAPF 10 to include a detailed training scenario and forwards it to the wing liaison office. After approval by the wing liaison office, the request is forwarded to the CAP-USAF liaison region. The CAPF 10 must arrive at the CAP-USAF liaison region at least 30 days prior to the activity date.
2) If approved, the CAP-USAF liaison region will complete the appropriate blocks and return a copy of the form to the wing liaison office. This mission authorization includes a mission number and a fund cite for the estimated reimbursement authorized for the mission. Claimed expenditures will not be reimbursed above the estimated amount specified in block 2 on the CAPF 10 without specific approval of the CAP-USAF liaison region.
3) After completion of the mission, claimed reimbursement should be summarized on the CAPF 10 by the wing liaison office and returned to the CAP-USAF liaison region.

CAPF 10s and CAP108s are for mission reimbursement for the flying and driving during a mission, not for members driving to the mission.  If this was so, the $8000 given by the USAF would be used up by paying for personal transport to the mission base or staging areas.

I'd say you TXWG folks have been taking it in the shorts for awhile now. If budgeted for travel to and from SAREXes is covered. 

[isuhawkeye]

you probably don't know that oil can be purchased as well as communications expenses (itemized cell phone bills count for mission calls)

Having said that wings often put restrictions on funding.  If a corporate asset is available the wing usually wont pay POV expenses. 

[Major Carrales]

c. USAF-Assigned Training and Evaluation Mission Requesting Procedures. For required evaluations the liaison region commander will coordinate with the wing commander to establish an appropriate date(s) for the evaluation. For evaluations, and training missions the wing/region commander will plan and estimate the cost of the mission and, in each case will complete a copy of CAPF 10. A Sample CAPF 10 can be found in CAPR 60-4, Volume II.
CAPR 60-3 26 MAY 2004 19
1) The CAP wing/region commander prepares a CAPF 10 to include a detailed training scenario and forwards it to the wing liaison office. After approval by the wing liaison office, the request is forwarded to the CAP-USAF liaison region. The CAPF 10 must arrive at the CAP-USAF liaison region at least 30 days prior to the activity date.
2) If approved, the CAP-USAF liaison region will complete the appropriate blocks and return a copy of the form to the wing liaison office. This mission authorization includes a mission number and a fund cite for the estimated reimbursement authorized for the mission. Claimed expenditures will not be reimbursed above the estimated amount specified in block 2 on the CAPF 10 without specific approval of the CAP-USAF liaison region.
3) After completion of the mission, claimed reimbursement should be summarized on the CAPF 10 by the wing liaison office and returned to the CAP-USAF liaison region.

CAPF 10s and CAP108s are for mission reimbursement for the flying and driving during a mission, not for members driving to the mission.  If this was so, the $8000 given by the USAF would be used up by paying for personal transport to the mission base or staging areas.

I'd say you TXWG folks have been taking it in the shorts for awhile now. If budgeted for travel to and from SAREXes is covered. 

How much are you going to budget for Texas WingMembers to tavel from across the WING to a centralized area for a SARex?  $5,000?  $10,000?  Per SARex?

[Eclipse]

How much are you going to budget for Texas WingMembers to tavel from across the WING to a centralized area for a SARex?  $5,000?  $10,000?

As much as you need.

I wouldn't suggest that every individual member should be encouraged to drive their POV, but if you're going to expect people to drive 6 hours to participate as a volunteer, the least you can do is front their fuel (considering the USAF doesn't generally cover hotels, meals, and personel equipment), especially for key players such as GTL's, branch directors and comm guys who usually come with enough specialized gear that expecting them to ride with a group is not practical.

[Major Carrales]

How much are you going to budget for Texas WingMembers to tavel from across the WING to a centralized area for a SARex?  $5,000?  $10,000?

As much as you need.

I wouldn't suggest that every individual member should be encouraged to drive their POV, but if you're going to expect people to drive 6 hours to participate as a volunteer, the least you can do is front their fuel (considering the USAF doesn't generally cover hotels, meals, and personel equipment), especially for key players such as GTL's, branch directors and comm guys who usually come with enough specialized gear that expecting them to ride with a group is not practical.

This is why we do Distributive SARex activities where training occurs WING WIDE.  I can drive down to Brownsville or up to Victoria or SAN ANTONIO.  This allows needed training to occur without "crossing the continent" to do it.

As it ihas work en re my "neck of the woods," CAPF 108s are only reimbursed for actually taking your vehicle on a CAP Mission.  Thus, you get to the staging area or Mission Base and the time starts when you log into the mission.

I am amazed how "starstruck" everyone seems to be with Iowa that they cannot entertain logical training for logistical benefit.

[isuhawkeye]

this all started because many (Not all) units were not capable of putting together viable local training

[Major Carrales]

this all started because many (Not all) units were not capable of putting together viable local training

In Texas, the power seems to be in the GROUPS that work in tandem as the WING.  If that is not done, it is clear that the logistical challenges of the situation will overwhelm any effort the WING puts forth.

Deploying well maintained units from "key areas," like East and Cental Texas would over tax even the current  most robust CAP budget.  Thus, the FIVE groups have to insure that they can answer locally...then call in reinforcements.

[isuhawkeye]

regions are an excellent structure for CAP.  Dont forget that Iowa does not have groups

[Major Carrales]

regions are an excellent structure for CAP.  Dont forget that Iowa does not have groups

Also, don't forget that in TEXAS; Iowa is a GROUP.   

By that, I do not mean to be insulting or TEXAS-CENTRIC, but pure reality based on the sheer size.

[mikeylikey]

Can anyone tell me how many members are in Iowa Wing.  Out of them, how many are active, how many are Cadets.  Where on the NHQ site can I find this info?

[isuhawkeye]

dont you read the internet. Iowa has lost 70% of its members, and none of those who are active are above 2nd Lt

Since at one point in time we had 400 that means that we have less than 200 members.

from e-services

Org Statistics   
Seniors in this Unit: 26   Seniors in this Wing: 216
Cadets in this Unit: 0   Cadets in this Wing: 103
All Members in this Unit: 26