VSAF Annoucement

[cnitas]

I think they are hoping to get 1,000's of new members who don't report to a Squadron, but work directly for the VSAF program. 

Huh??
I think perhaps someone ought to wake them up out of their dream state if thats truly what they are thinking.

[Smokey]

In a way...I am involved directly in support of an AF mission.  I am the operations officer for the space shuttle recovery team at Edwards AFB. CAP is directly involved in a landing at Edwards. In fact, at the last landing at Edwards, CAP and one Navy Helo were the only two aircraft airborne just after the shuttle landed. CAP was handling security and photo recon.

My crew all wore the green bag with grade insignia for this. I fly in an Army Blackhawk helicopter with the air boss in my green bag with grade (major) insignia. (I'm kinda like a mini airboss).

In meetings and training at Edwards I wear the uniform of the day....mostly the green bag.

There has never been an issue with me wearing the green flight suit with grade insignia doing this. I am saluted and return salutes smartly. And I salute those in grade above me without hesitation.

The Army , Navy & AF folks all know who I am and there is never an issue. I have been treated with respect as have been my crew.  I am an integral part of the pilot brief  and all meetings.

Now I am not mentioning this to toot my own horn....but to point out that I work closely with active duty folks from the Air Force, Army and Navy not to mention NASA. Never has there been an issue.

[Eeyore]

^I'd have to say, very cool job to have with CAP.

[JayT]

I think they are hoping to get 1,000's of new members who don't report to a Squadron, but work directly for the VSAF program. 

Huh??
I think perhaps someone ought to wake them up out of their dream state if thats truly what they are thinking.

Why wouldn't that happen? It appears that's what a big chuck of the program is gonna be about.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Mikey:

You may be right, there WAS some mention of other base volunteers coming into CAP as a result of this program.

But that still would not explain why the golf shirt combo could not be used.

[Dragoon]

I hate to add rumor, but an NB member told me that the uniform was announced by our commander during a huge teleconference call with no input or debate from the NB or NEC members..   Not sure if it was her idea, or foisted on her by her USAF POC, but either way, the NB and NEC never got to weigh in on the issue.

[cnitas]

I think they are hoping to get 1,000's of new members who don't report to a Squadron, but work directly for the VSAF program. 

Huh??
I think perhaps someone ought to wake them up out of their dream state if thats truly what they are thinking.

Why wouldn't that happen? It appears that's what a big chuck of the program is gonna be about.

Because there are not thousands of people out there trying to volunteer to do this work for free that are not already volunteering in some other way?

Perhaps I am wrong, but that is not the sense I get when trying to recruit for CAP.

[MIGCAP]

I'm afraid that this discussion is an example of what is wrong with CAP today.

Cap whine: "The USAF doesn't give us missions!"
USAF Answer:  "OK here is a whole new mission area for you."
Cap whine: :What do I get to wear?" (Now there's an important issue), I'm sure it was the subchasers primary concern. You wear what you are told to. Period, no discussion.  I can assure you that I never felt that BDUs were appropriate to my stature and place in life, but I wore them cause I was told to.

Cap whine: "I'm really an officer you know!"
Reality answer: " No your not, unless you possess a commision from the Congress, you simply are not a Military Officer.  You may be a CAP officer, which is nice, and an accomplishment, but you are not a military officer.

Cap whine: Do you want me to do what an NCO says, don't you know who I am?
Reality answer: You are a PFC, Private F_____ Civilian" That's all.  You may be in an auxiliary, but I guess if you get a call from AFRCC to launch your wing, if it's an NCO calling, you will not go.  Get a life! There has never been an officer in the military that has not had to do what an NCO told them to do at some point. I did and I came home from a war alive because I followed an NCO's instructions.  He was also a lot smarter than me, and a bunch more experienced.  They may not have been orders, but my commission did not say I was smarter than anyone.

Cap whine:  "If they don't let me wear what I want I will not play."
Reality Answer: Good, go away!

Sometimes I think that the subchasers are going to get out of their graves and beet the tar out of some of us. We deserve it.  They did something to assist in a war effort, they risked their lives, yet we are concerned with risking our rank insignia.

There are really only two appropriate answers to a request from our parent service.
1. Yes Sir.
2. I do not want to play anymore, I did not know that it required me to check my ego at the door.

I do believe that the Boy Scouts have some openings.

[Dragoon]

I share your frustration. 

In the absence of money, CAP has used pride and recognition as the "coin of the realm."  Medals, rank, uniforms - all military trappings designed to increase morale (and therefore keep the numbers up.  Heck, a CAP recruiting brochure I looked at recently listed the USAF uniform as a "benefit" of joining CAP.

The downside of this focus on external trappings is that the true spirit of service can get lost in the mix.   Folks worry more about their own status (their "paycheck," if you will) than their own service.

I'm with you - I'd rather focus on DOING (serving our nation) than BEING (having a cool title and looking like a fighter jock). 

Of, course, it would be best to have both.     But if one's gotta give - it shouldn't be the mission.

I don't think these problems are new to CAP - they've been around at least 20 years, probably longer.

But the one part of the military culture CAP has never quite grokked is "Quite your whining, salute smartly and move out."

(And by the way, the one subchaser I talked to did get paid.  He said it was much more than he was making in his "civilian" job.  That little tidbit seems to get lost when we discuss our forefathers.)

[jimmydeanno]

(And by the way, the one subchaser I talked to did get paid.  He said it was much more than he was making in his "civilian" job.  That little tidbit seems to get lost when we discuss our forefathers.)

[OFF TOPIC]:  Some of the doc I posted in the "Historical Documents" thread in the lobby have per diem rates for coastal patrol base personnel.  I also have receipts from the Navy for "services rendered" for armed guards and target towing...

[/off topic]

[cnitas]

I would be 1st in line for VSAF if they paid me more than my 'civillian' job.  And I would not even complain about the uniform 

[Tim Medeiros]

paid more than your civilian job, hmm, http://www.usajobs.gov might have some openings that fit that bill :p

[JohnKachenmeister]

I'm afraid that this discussion is an example of what is wrong with CAP today.

Cap whine: "The USAF doesn't give us missions!"
USAF Answer:  "OK here is a whole new mission area for you."
Cap whine: :What do I get to wear?" (Now there's an important issue), I'm sure it was the subchasers primary concern. You wear what you are told to. Period, no discussion.  I can assure you that I never felt that BDUs were appropriate to my stature and place in life, but I wore them cause I was told to.

Cap whine: "I'm really an officer you know!"
Reality answer: " No your not, unless you possess a commision from the Congress, you simply are not a Military Officer.  You may be a CAP officer, which is nice, and an accomplishment, but you are not a military officer.

Cap whine: Do you want me to do what an NCO says, don't you know who I am?
Reality answer: You are a PFC, Private F_____ Civilian" That's all.  You may be in an auxiliary, but I guess if you get a call from AFRCC to launch your wing, if it's an NCO calling, you will not go.  Get a life! There has never been an officer in the military that has not had to do what an NCO told them to do at some point. I did and I came home from a war alive because I followed an NCO's instructions.  He was also a lot smarter than me, and a bunch more experienced.  They may not have been orders, but my commission did not say I was smarter than anyone.

Cap whine:  "If they don't let me wear what I want I will not play."
Reality Answer: Good, go away!

Sometimes I think that the subchasers are going to get out of their graves and beet the tar out of some of us. We deserve it.  They did something to assist in a war effort, they risked their lives, yet we are concerned with risking our rank insignia.

There are really only two appropriate answers to a request from our parent service.
1. Yes Sir.
2. I do not want to play anymore, I did not know that it required me to check my ego at the door.

I do believe that the Boy Scouts have some openings.

The conversation did not go exactly like that.

CAP:  "We have a great mission for you.  You will augment the AF."

Mbrs:  "Great.  When do we start?"

CAP:  "Wait a minute... you can't wear your rank.  It might scare the Airmen."

Mbrs:  "OK.  That's stupid, but we can adapt.  We'll just wear our Golf Shirts."

CAP:  "Uh... no.  We have designed a new uniform for you.  You can buy it from Vanguard."

Mbrs:  "It is ugly.  It looks like a retail sales associate.  CAP does not have a Specialty Track for 'Mission Dork' so I am not qualified to wear it."

CAP:  "Wear the uniform.  It's an order."

Mbrs:  "You got a set of horn-rimmed glasses and a pocket protector full of pens to with that ensemble?"

[Gunner C]

Reality answer: " No your not, unless you possess a commision from the Congress, you simply are not a Military Officer. 

Point of order for accuracy:  Commissions are granted by the president, not congress. Mine says at the top:  PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. (Back to your regularly scheduled argument). 

[Gunner C]

Mbrs:  "You got a set of horn-rimmed glasses and a pocket protector full of pens to with that ensemble?"

[mikeylikey]

Reality answer: " No your not, unless you possess a commision from the Congress, you simply are not a Military Officer. 

Point of order for accuracy:  Commissions are granted by the president, not congress. Mine says at the top:  PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. (Back to your regularly scheduled argument). 

Too add:  The Senate Confirms Officers, not Congress. 

[Gunner C]

Reality answer: " No your not, unless you possess a commision from the Congress, you simply are not a Military Officer. 

Point of order for accuracy:  Commissions are granted by the president, not congress. Mine says at the top:  PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES. (Back to your regularly scheduled argument). 

Too add:  The Senate Confirms Officers, not Congress. 

Correct!

[afgeo4]

More specifically, it isn't so much that the uniform we'll have to wear is ugly. It's the fact that it's ugly and we have to buy it with our own money... in addition to uniforms we already have to buy.

That becomes a BURDEN. A burden isn't a good "thank you" for doing volunteer work.

Just a thought.

None of this would really be an issue if the USAF said:

"We'd like you to do a job for us and here are the polos we'd like you to wear while you're here. Do you think 3 polos will be sufficient to outfit every VSAF member?"

[Gunner C]

More specifically, it isn't so much that the uniform we'll have to wear is ugly. It's the fact that it's ugly and we have to buy it with our own money... in addition to uniforms we already have to buy.

That becomes a BURDEN. A burden isn't a good "thank you" for doing volunteer work.

Just a thought.

Good thought!

[GPVIIOps]

For those who are interested to know what kind of jobs are open with the VSAF program (we are not handing out towels at the gym) here is the updated list for now. As we become more public more opportunities on base will open up I am sure.

Base Exercise and Readiness Office
NAF Human Resources Office
Base Hospital Flight Medicine Clinic
Military Personnel Flight
Airmen and Family Readiness Center
Services - Support Base Honor Guard

Before you ask, I don't know what anyone would be doing in these offices, just thought some people would be interested to see what kind of jobs VSAF has for us. All I know is that I have had a good time so far.