VSAF Annoucement

[afgeo4]

Things must be slow at Luke if that makes the paper.

[JohnKachenmeister]

A change of command ALWAYS makes the paper.

[mikeylikey]

Not saying what this gentleman is doing at Luke is not important, and worthwhile, but the PAO who wrote up the article, was most likely from the same office this VSAF volunteer works in, and could have setup the videocamera all the same.

Also, I thought we were not going by CAP rank in VSAF.  Someone needs to inform the Air Force that VSAF volunteers are not to be addressed by their CAP rank!!!!!!!!

[RiverAux]

No one said that they can't be addressed by their CAP rank.  They just can't wear it. 

Frankly, they could have picked something a bit more substantive to publisize. 

[SJFedor]

Story about CAP member in Luke AFB VSAF program ... just talks about him videotaping a change of command ceremony.  http://www.luke.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123100576

Not that I'm making this into ANOTHER uniform thread....but he's not in the VSAF uniform.

[RiverAux]

Sort of hard to wear something that isn't available for purchase....at least I don't see anything like it on Vanguard, but then again I don't have 6 hours to go through 6 dozen pages of the same picture of the same uniform in size 22, 24, 26, 26, ..... to try to find it.

[RogueLeader]

Sort of hard to wear something that isn't available for purchase....at least I don't see anything like it on Vanguard, but then again I don't have 6 hours to go through 6 dozen pages of the same picture of the same uniform in size 22, 24, 26, 26, ..... to try to find it.

Or the "image not available"  Not nearly as prelevant, but still there, last I checked.

[afgeo4]

Anyone see the VSAF article in the Volunteer this month? The main photo shows a few officers wearing the standard CAP polo with khakis while others are wearing a short sleeve button down shirt with the CAP shield on it. Both look almost identical. I don't see how the polo could confuse someone. All it has is the CAP logo, the name (no grade) and maybe wings on it.

[RiverAux]

This issue of the New York National Guard magazine has an article in it about an augmentation mission being performed by the New York Guard (their State Defense Force):  http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/gdtimes/gt_spring08.pdf

Basically, the NYG members are teaching "Basic Flight" to new members of the Air National Guard.  The course is described as a

pre-basic training course that bridges the gap between the civilian world and an Airman's basic military training.

It doesn't go into any great detail, but this appears to be a class for new Air NG recruits that probably aren't pilots.  It would seem to be something that might be appropriate for the VSAF program if it is ever expanded beyond active duty AF units (since they presumably don't have pre-basic training people around while the NG regularly does). 

[afgeo4]

The Air branch of the New York Guard hires only prior USAF personnel, so they have a good understanding of what BMT is like. They are also the state military and are on orders (and paid) when activated by the Governor.

All those things make these people different from CAP. I personally don't think this is a good idea for CAP. 99% of CAP members don't know what USAF Basic Military Training is like today and 99% of those that do, wouldn't be able to provide USAF with time to do VSAF.

[RiverAux]

Based on what was described in the article, it certainly doesn't seem as if this is a class beyond the ability of many CAP members to teach whether they have prior service or not.  It is knowledge of flight that seems to be the point of the class.  If CAP can't teach a basic aerospace class to people with no background in it, we've got problems. 

[GPVIIOps]

I can tell you from first hand experience that working in any aspect of the VSAF program it helps to have prior AF experience. When you are trying to talk to Active Duty personnel or Civilian Employees it's hard to work around the acronyms and three dollar words without at least a little time in the military. If you get lucky enough to work with an office that deals with any level of "field training" you also have a little better understanding of what the young Airman is going through.

Also gets you a little more respect from the AF members you are working with.

The Air branch of the New York Guard hires only prior USAF personnel, so they have a good understanding of what BMT is like. They are also the state military and are on orders (and paid) when activated by the Governor.

All those things make these people different from CAP. I personally don't think this is a good idea for CAP. 99% of CAP members don't know what USAF Basic Military Training is like today and 99% of those that do, wouldn't be able to provide USAF with time to do VSAF.

[GPVIIOps]

From what I am told, the regulations on this are still in the works. They have had to give a little on the "Must be in USAF uniform though." Working in the Exercise Planning & Wing Readiness office, we spend a lot of time training in field conditions. Short sleeve shirt, kaki pants, and dress shoes don't quite cut it out there.

I was given a few other options outside of the VSAF uniform, but all are strictly upon the request of the office I am working with.

Sort of hard to wear something that isn't available for purchase....at least I don't see anything like it on Vanguard, but then again I don't have 6 hours to go through 6 dozen pages of the same picture of the same uniform in size 22, 24, 26, 26, ..... to try to find it.

Or the "image not available"  Not nearly as prelevant, but still there, last I checked.

[KyCAP]

I have been thinking about this thread since reading it last night.

I guess I am confused as to how the USAF is not OK with our rank in uniform on a day to day basis, but seems to be OK with it in "disaster mode".   

My point is that if in any of our Wings we are given AFAM and start showing up for mission assignments with units (USAF,  Army,  Coast Guard, National Guard, etc) there is not instruction for us to "peel off our rank" before showing up for duty.

It's a bit conflicting that we wouldn't want to "expose and train" those folks to the difference before "we're in the middle of it"?  Just a thought.  Probably more time for VSAF to explain in front of coffee pot than on the flight line while loading SDIS packages / goods.

[RiverAux]

Its the difference between HQ and field people.  HQ thinks that its important to distinguish between CAP and the AF.  The field people realize that
A.  Its not really that important.
B.  CAP's uniform is different enough that no one with an IQ over 75 is going to have a hard time telling the difference anyway.

[mikeylikey]

^ And I don't think it was AF that said "no rank".  I am sure it was a corporate lawyer sitting at Maxwell. 

[GPVIIOps]

I don't want to get into the same argument about rank on here that we had once before, but I can tell you that I do understand why they don't let me wear my rank.

I work on a regular basis with lowly little Airman and Senior Airman. We also have volunteers working in the Airman and Family Readiness center on base. Me as a CAP Capt might not be as inviting to talk to as just some civilian or other person wearing goofy blue tapes on my BDU's. And trust me, having been there my self, you can try to explain CAP to an E-2 all day long, and you are still going to get the same response "Yes Sir" if you have rank on. It's not a matter of the AF or HQ not wanting to recognize rank, its a matter of everyone wanting to make our augmentation/transition as smooth as possible. Working VSAF, you may be put in a position where you are working under an Airman ...... if you have Capt or Lt bars on your uniform, how well do you think that would go over?

********* Caution Caution Caution  *********  --- Man on  a soap box---

To tell you the truth, I couldn't care less either way. Unlike others in CAP, I see my rank as a fake grade anyhow. Honesty, what does it take to obtain Captain in CAP??? Not a whole lot. I have also met people all the way up to the rank of Lt Col who fail to impress me in any way shape or form. As far is "I have earned my rank and I am going to wear it" sayers...... I figured out how to renew my membership on e-services a few years in a row too.

Bottom line..... don't like the rules, then don't participate. Don't want to participate? Then you have no room to talk.

End of Rant   :angel:

I have been thinking about this thread since reading it last night.

I guess I am confused as to how the USAF is not OK with our rank in uniform on a day to day basis, but seems to be OK with it in "disaster mode".   

My point is that if in any of our Wings we are given AFAM and start showing up for mission assignments with units (USAF,  Army,  Coast Guard, National Guard, etc) there is not instruction for us to "peel off our rank" before showing up for duty.

It's a bit conflicting that we wouldn't want to "expose and train" those folks to the difference before "we're in the middle of it"?  Just a thought.  Probably more time for VSAF to explain in front of coffee pot than on the flight line while loading SDIS packages / goods.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I don't want to get into the same argument about rank on here that we had once before, but I can tell you that I do understand why they don't let me wear my rank.

I work on a regular basis with lowly little Airman and Senior Airman. We also have volunteers working in the Airman and Family Readiness center on base. Me as a CAP Capt might not be as inviting to talk to as just some civilian or other person wearing goofy blue tapes on my BDU's. And trust me, having been there my self, you can try to explain CAP to an E-2 all day long, and you are still going to get the same response "Yes Sir" if you have rank on. It's not a matter of the AF or HQ not wanting to recognize rank, its a matter of everyone wanting to make our augmentation/transition as smooth as possible. Working VSAF, you may be put in a position where you are working under an Airman ...... if you have Capt or Lt bars on your uniform, how well do you think that would go over?

********* Caution Caution Caution  *********  --- Man on  a soap box---

To tell you the truth, I couldn't care less either way. Unlike others in CAP, I see my rank as a fake grade anyhow. Honesty, what does it take to obtain Captain in CAP??? Not a whole lot. I have also met people all the way up to the rank of Lt Col who fail to impress me in any way shape or form. As far is "I have earned my rank and I am going to wear it" sayers...... I figured out how to renew my membership on e-services a few years in a row too.

Bottom line..... don't like the rules, then don't participate. Don't want to participate? Then you have no room to talk.

End of Rant   :angel:

I have been thinking about this thread since reading it last night.

I guess I am confused as to how the USAF is not OK with our rank in uniform on a day to day basis, but seems to be OK with it in "disaster mode".   

My point is that if in any of our Wings we are given AFAM and start showing up for mission assignments with units (USAF,  Army,  Coast Guard, National Guard, etc) there is not instruction for us to "peel off our rank" before showing up for duty.

It's a bit conflicting that we wouldn't want to "expose and train" those folks to the difference before "we're in the middle of it"?  Just a thought.  Probably more time for VSAF to explain in front of coffee pot than on the flight line while loading SDIS packages / goods.

I understand your point, and can agree with it to a certain extent.  Enough that I'm not inclined to quibble.  MY biggest beef with the program is that we already HAVE a uniform that meets the stated criteria of the  VSAF uniform... the Golf Shirt combo.  Do we get a new uniform for every new mission?

[SAR-EMT1]

YES !   but you quibble so...

NO UNIFORM FOR YOU

[mikeylikey]

^ Man.....I was looking forward to buying a new set of khaki pants and an ugly polo. 

Seriously though........Has anything "really" come out of the VSAF Program?  We are still almost in the dark as to what the volunteers are doing, where they are working etc.  A nice page from the VSAF coordinator on what is going on would be awesome. 

^ Maybe that is too much to ask.  I am not sure........but what I am sure about is a distinctive uniform was prescribed, but yet some in the VSAF community, are clearly not following the guidelines.  We have pics to prove it, and the guy above wearing BDU's when he should be in the VSAF prescribed wear.  I am curious.......has he ripped off the rank from the CAP BDU's when he goes into the field, wouldn't want to confuse his E-2 supervisor too much now would we?!!?

Silliness.