Benefits of a USAF Officer CAP/CC

[FW]

I'm pretty sure the Board of Governors will be addressing governance issues for CAP at it's December meeting (tomorrow).  Who knows where that will lead however, we may have that AF general commanding us yet....

[PHall]

Since we do have a "Federal" (Air Force) and a "State" (Corperate) mission.

State does not equal Corporate.

Okay, how about "Missions other then Air Force Assigned Missions"? Wordy enough for ya?

[andysum15]

Just a little info for you all. The UK, Air Training Corps is commanded by a serving Officer with the rank of Air Commadore. Regional Commanders are all retired Reserve Officers. The highest someone can get coming from civy street is Wing Commander.
That said the Royal Air Force provides uniforms for all senior members and cadets. Aircraft are also provided. That said to fly the Grob Tutor (used to fly cadet orientation flights) you have to have been trained as a military pilot as they are allowed to do aerobatics. ATC members however can train to become glider pilots.
Squadron vehicles have to be purchased by the squadron and maintained by them. that said every squadron has to have a civilian committee who are responsible for fund raising. The Squadron Commander runs the squadron.
Buildings are maintained and provided by the MOD.
Hope that gives you an idea on how things could be.

[AirAux]

Is it true that the cadets and officers of the UK Air Training Corps are paid?  I think I heard that and that the Canadians are also paid.  It could get much better..

[JeffDG]

Is it true that the cadets and officers of the UK Air Training Corps are paid?  I think I heard that and that the Canadians are also paid.  It could get much better..

Being paid could also be much worse.

Many companies out there have policies for volunteer service by employees, including time off (often with pay) for people to volunteer in worthy organizations.  I know I have clearance to pick up and respond to an ES or DR issue should it occur.  If I were to be paid, that would, in essence, become a second job, and for me to pick up and leave in the event of an event, would be a violation of my employment contract.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Cadets in the Royal Canadian Air Cadets are not paid, however; the RCAF will pay for them to get their pilots' licence.

Their instructors (Cadet Instructor Cadre) are paid for duty time since they are appointed as Reserve officers in whatever branch they serve (RCAirC, RCAC, RCSCC).  The only differences uniform-wise are a special cap badge and "CIC" instead of "CANADA" on their rank epaulettes.  They also must take a Basic Officer Training course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadet_Instructors_Cadre

In the UK officers of the ATC are appointed as serving officers of the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve (Training) and are paid for duty time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Training_Corps

It is much the same for other Commonwealth organisations; i.e., the New Zealand Air Training Corps and Australian Air Force Cadets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Air_Training_Corps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Air_Force_Cadets

Also, unlike us, their officers rate a salute from regular military personnel.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Being paid could also be much worse.

Many companies out there have policies for volunteer service by employees, including time off (often with pay) for people to volunteer in worthy organizations.  I know I have clearance to pick up and respond to an ES or DR issue should it occur.  If I were to be paid, that would, in essence, become a second job, and for me to pick up and leave in the event of an event, would be a violation of my employment contract.

I imagine that if we were in the same situation as the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand we would be regarded as "volunteer reservists" and subject to the same legal protections as Guard/Reserve/SDF.

[andysum15]

Reference ATC members being paid. the answer is senior members only are but only for certain activities such as annual camp. Officers and NCO's (Senior members can claim up to 28 days pay a year, the higher you go the amount of days is reduced). For weekly squadron meetings you are not paid. They are also required to a minimum amount of squadron meetings if they don't they will loose their status.

[JeffDG]

Also, unlike us, their officers rate a salute from regular military personnel.

And they wouldn't look at me funny when I say "leftenant"

[JeffDG]

Being paid could also be much worse.

Many companies out there have policies for volunteer service by employees, including time off (often with pay) for people to volunteer in worthy organizations.  I know I have clearance to pick up and respond to an ES or DR issue should it occur.  If I were to be paid, that would, in essence, become a second job, and for me to pick up and leave in the event of an event, would be a violation of my employment contract.

I imagine that if we were in the same situation as the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand we would be regarded as "volunteer reservists" and subject to the same legal protections as Guard/Reserve/SDF.

Don't bet on that...in Canada, reserves do not have the right to maintain their job if called up and deploy...their call-up is voluntary (ie. they can refuse the call), and employers are not required to maintain their jobs for them like in the US.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Since we do have a "Federal" (Air Force) and a "State" (Corperate) mission.

State does not equal Corporate.

My thinking exactly, which is why my suggestion was for AFRES and not ANG. 

Putting us under ANG control would likely involve Title 10 USC issues.  A State Governor has no formal command authority over us, unlike ANG/ARNG/SDF/Naval Militias.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

JeffDG: I'd forgot about the Canadian employment code for reservists.  I live relatively close to the border and go across a fair bit, though  not as much as I used to since 9/11 (easy going into Canada, PITA coming back).

Sometimes I use "lef-tenant" as well, much to the consternation of my squadron colleagues.

[Earhart1971]

Putting us in with the ANG might be a positive, if it gets us more support and funding.

Personally, if you put an Air Force General in charge of CAP it will make zero difference in our situation. It is a sun set job, and the Air Force General will not want to make waves or do anything that involves change or risk to himself.

The thing that is being avoided by everyone in the current hierarchy is, we have no plan or Strategic Vision.

We have no viable relationship with the holders of the purse strings, the "Congress", and we dont know what to ask for, if we did have the relationship.

As long as that is the case, we are at status quo.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I thought having an AF National Commander was good, but we lost it when Congress reduced the number of general/admiral slots in the military, and the AF had to make some decisions.  We are not likely to get that slot back.

The current situation is virtually unsustainable... the National Commander, a CAP general, does not command the FT staff of CAP.  The Natl Cdr is elected by... the very people supervised by the Natl Cdr.  The Ex Dir of CAP reports to the BoG, not the Natl Cdr.  Try putting this into a nice neat line diagram for the new folks... you can't.

[HGjunkie]

The current situation is virtually unsustainable... the National Commander, a CAP general, does not command the FT staff of CAP.  The Natl Cdr is elected by... the very people supervised by the Natl Cdr.  The Ex Dir of CAP reports to the BoG, not the Natl Cdr.  Try putting this into a nice neat line diagram for the new folks... you can't.

Wait. MY BRAIN! IT HURTS!

[FW]

Many brains are aching right now.....

There seems to be some need for clarification on who "commands" CAP.    And, it seems no one really can figure it out. 

The way I see it, (and who cares what I think ) , The National Commander leads the volunteers, the EX is the top supervisor of the corporate paid staff and, the BoG provides governance over all.

Sooooo?  Any one have aspirin?  Tylenol?  Percoset?  An idea?.....

[Ned]

The current situation is virtually unsustainable... the National Commander, a CAP general, does not command the FT staff of CAP.  The Natl Cdr is elected by... the very people supervised by the Natl Cdr.  The Ex Dir of CAP reports to the BoG, not the Natl Cdr.  Try putting this into a nice neat line diagram for the new folks... you can't.

To be fair, we have somehow made this . . . "unique" . . . governance model work for a lot of years   We've managed to save hundreds of lives, trained thousands of cadets, and aerospace-educated countless numbers of folks.  Sure, we have endured some pretty impressive drama along the way, but even when national-level events are at their most distracting, missions are flown and Tuesday night meetings go on as they always have.

But I am one of the firmest advocates for a thorough and careful review of our corporate governance.  And I have every reason to believe that that is exactly what is going to happen, in an open and transparent process with complete input from CAP leaders, the membership, and our external stakeholders.

"Stay tuned."

And FWIW, CAP-USAF commander is not considered a sunset tour.  Any O6 command slot is a coveted position in the AF.  Indeed, our current CAP-USAF commander was just selected for a prestigious follow-on command assignment as an operations group commander.

[Earhart1971]

Many brains are aching right now.....

There seems to be some need for clarification on who "commands" CAP.    And, it seems no one really can figure it out. 

The way I see it, (and who cares what I think ) , The National Commander leads the volunteers, the EX is the top supervisor of the corporate paid staff and, the BoG provides governance over all.

Sooooo?  Any one have aspirin?  Tylenol?  Percoset?  An idea?.....

What we have is more like a (National Commander in CAP is a) Committee Chairman. And we have the care taker staff at National HQ of paid people. And yes we have no real commander.

[flyboy53]

First, please keep in mind that the commander of CAP-USAF is still in the Air Force's eyes, the commander because his other title is "program manager." I think the full "command" title should be shifted back regardless of his rank. Otherwise, having the CAP shift under a state adjutant general would be problematic because that would mean protection of assets, state-unique policies, and perhaps even a lessing of the mission for the sake of the ANG.

If not the Air Force officer, consider this. Our second National Commander, Brig. Gen. Earle Johnson, started as a CAP Officer and ended up being a real Army Air Forces general, complete with service pilot wings. I don't understand why the same procedure/policy isn't in place today. Wouldn't that be something if it was, considering that our Chaplain Program is the only CAP Program that currently achieves Air Force Standard.

Second, after all the issues with HWSRN, I was surprised to find out that our current National Commander wasn't paid, only reimbursed for her expenses, and my hat goes off to her for that type of dedication. During the O9 NSC, she was at Maxwell twice in one week, in between obligations at different wings or regions. She's a volunteer, too.

However, third, that means that many of the day-to-day decisions are made by an executive director. So, CAP has its own level of bureaucracy, which should be stream-lined as a cost-saving measure.

[JohnKachenmeister]

Ned:

Yes, the system we have works... I just can't figure out how.

What we have is analgous to electro-shock therapy back in the day.  Psychiatrists used to say "We know it works, but we don't know why."

My simple-minded solution:  Combine the position of Natl. Commander and Executive Director.  That would give us a full-time Nat. Cdr. appointed by the BoG, and give the Nat Cdr command of both the volunteers and full time staff.  Have the NB send a recommendation to the BoG for Nat. Cdr. rather than full appointment authority.