Upset by How People Treat Us

[cap235629]

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You missed the point entirely

[SarDragon]

With all due respect sir, lets not flame other people's posts on frivolous semantics.

You may see it as frivolous semantics, but the uneducated listener on the street may not, just like the folks who see us in our BDUs and think we are in the military. That's what this thread is all about - educating these people so they have the correct info about who we are and what we do.

[isuhawkeye]

People form opinions based upon experience.  I for one have lost a lot of respect for CAP over the past few years.  Recently on this thread the following guidance was made to CAP members. 

Be professional.
Follow the rules.
Complete your assigned mission.

Unfortunaitly many CAP members are not doing this.  In my recent experience, and on several discussions on this board CAP has continually shown that it is unwilling to follow theses simple guidelines. 

When a state's TAG asks to meet with The National commander before she makes a decision, and she tells him to mind his own business, that is unprofessional.

When a wing ES Point of contact takes two hours to respond to an ES request, that is unprofessional

When a squadron CC is not made aware that his aircraft is flying DR missions, that is unprofessional

When a wing wide training exercise is conducted with out a Mission number, that is unprofessional

When a state agency requests overflight imagery, and you deliver the pictures it to a field office 200 miles away, that is unprofessional.

With these few examples can you see why "professional" responders are hesitant to work with CAP, and why they may be hesitant to say nice things to you.

If the individuals don't like CAP....so fine....go away

I really don't want to go away, because I see so much potential within the organization.  CAP could truly be what so many of you claim it is.  Unfortunately today the organization is no where near its potential.

[2ltAlexD]

We are part of the military family however, and the day we are not the Air Force Auxiliary is the day I leave. What drew me to CAP is the fact that I could still serve this great nation even though I am totally blind. When we go on an Air Force rescue mition, we are part of the military. It makes me sad when people talk like we are totally separate. We should be like the Coast Guard Aux.

[MIKE]

Sorry guys, but from what I've seen of CAP... the people who make fun have a valid point... as unsettling to the membership as that may be.

[Major Carrales]

Sorry guys, but from what I've seen of CAP... the people who make fun have a valid point... as unsettling to the membership as that may be.

Well, I hope you doing more to stave that off that making this sort of comment.

Truth is, we make CAP what is it.  Each of us, individually, represents CAP. 

Some people seem to loath what CAP is and does. It would seem that many of them are in the membership itself.

[O-Rex]

Sorry guys, but from what I've seen of CAP... the people who make fun have a valid point... as unsettling to the membership as that may be.

Good point: I'm upset by how people treat us WITHIN the organization much less outsiders.

When I was AD, I had to give a dog & pony show to a bunch of CAP members, Seniors and Cadets.  Of course the Cadets were well-behaved, but the Seniors were obnoxious.
I had to do them preiodically, and cringed each time.  That stuck with me for years after I got out, until a fellow ex AD-type talked me into joining

Years later, I'm now a member, and little has changed: sure, there's the good-ones who help me keep my sanity (and my faith in the program) but there are alot of unprofessional members out there, as well as those who honestly don't have a clue, and aren't interested in finding one.

The recurring theme in CAP is that many of our wounds are self-inclucted......

[Major Carrales]

When I was AD, I had to give a dog & pony show to a bunch of CAP members, Seniors and Cadets.  Of course the Cadets were well-behaved, but the Seniors were obnoxious.
I had to do them preiodically, and cringed each time.  That stuck with me for years after I got out, until a fellow ex AD-type talked me into joining

...sure, there's the good-ones who help me keep my sanity (and my faith in the program) but there are alot of unprofessional members out there, as well as those who honestly don't have a clue, and aren't interested in finding one.

This is exactally what I have just tried to point out to MIKE.  We create our unit and set the tone for what they will be. Professionalism is the key.  Our aviators need to look professional in action as well as appearance.  This goes from stafety to how CAPF 104s are filled out.

It is up to us to turn this around.  Talking about it on formus like this alone will do nothing.

[MIKE]

You actaully thought you had to point that out to ME, Maj C? 

[Major Carrales]

You actaully thought you had to point that out to ME, Maj C? 

You were the target of opportunity.  

Fact is, until we can get this through to persons as part of the LEVEL I, these problems will presist.  Most Level I training I have observed out side of my unit run from the position of an "inferiority complex" to the USAF and other military. 

I cannot stress enough the comparasions of CAP to these military entries is a classic "apples/oranges" situation.

We are strong for what we are.  Until we embrace that mantra in CAP, that we are our own organization with ties of the USAF, then these will always be that interference.

[MIKE]

We are strong for what we are.  Until we embrace that mantra in CAP, that we are our own organization with ties of the USAF, then these will always be that interference.

Now, this I disgree with.

[Major Carrales]

Now, this I disgree with.

How so?  CAP is the Civil Air Patrol, it has its strengths in being what it is, a group of Civilian Airmen (Minutemen of the Skies) that are called upon by the USAF, and other Government, to accomplish elements of the USAF domestic mission.

Wearing the Uniform is the best manifestation of that link.  However, the USAF does not regulate CAP in the necessary scope for CAP to be considered a "part of the USAF."  It is, the individual CAP officer's responsibility to maintain that professional appearance that will keep CAP a valuable part of the Air Force Team.

Thus, depending on the USAF to "save us" is crazy.  It is up to US to save US.

[Short Field]

CAP is the Civil Air Patrol, it has its strengths in being what it is, a group of Civilian Airmen (Minutemen of the Skies) that are called upon by the USAF, and other Government, to accomplish elements of the USAF domestic mission.

I totally agree with you.   And due to our civilian status, Congress has given us permission to accomplish missions that the miliatry is barred by law from accomplishing.

[O-Rex]

There was another thread in which a member was flamed by his colleagues for changing into his uniform before leaving work to attend a meeting, and what we got out of that thread was that folks who vehemently criticize CAP usually have an axe to grind, often 'sour grapes.'  Then there are others (like me for many years) just keep quiet and smirk.

Again, some of it is deserved, and some of it was what we used to call in the Army "flightsuit-envy."

There's an old saying: "Most of those who matter, don't mind, and most of those who do mind, don't matter."

Do the best you can, put your best foot forward, be humble and encourage others to do the same: regardless, not everyone is going to be a fan. . .

[Smithsonia]

The problem and the solution, as often is the case, exists right here in this thread. If you feel unable to professionally respond to "civilian, military" denigration of the CAP... then don't. Whatever you do, I suggest, don't go nuts, be professional, respectful, and courteous.

However, it is up to us (members of the Patrol) to sell, educate, recruit, straighten-out, engage, and define ourselves. If we don't, no one else will. Say "FEMA" and you think Katrina Failures. Say Homeland Security and you think taking off your shoes off at the airport, or color-coding, or some other vapid thing. However, if there is a responsible and educated reply... then when some one thinks CAP... they'll think of you. You'll be the image. You'll be the memory. You'll be the refined and dignified volunteer that the person that you're dealing with... will tell their friends about. You'll be the face associated with a changed mind. Don't let others identify you. You learn to do it. It's the way to go in every endeavor.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

[Short Field]

Big difference between how people you meet treat you and what someone on the internet says.   Way too many trolls, cyberbullies, and just plain dorks on the internet to ever worry about what they say or think.  

Present company excepted.....sometimes.

[Major Carrales]

Big difference between how people you meet treat you and what someone on the internet says.   Way too many trolls, cyberbullies, and just plain dorks on the internet to ever worry about what they say or think.  

Present company excepted.....sometimes.

The trolls and the like aren't the only problems here.  There are also those that, when people come here for "fellowship" or have legitimate questions to which they desire guidance, they are met with scorn and flipant replies.

I have always seen this as a place for the offering of help to fellow CAP officers and Cadets.  There is no reason anything otherwise.

On other sites where CAP is lambasted, I once got "affected" by the posted drivel against CAP.  However, after working with Cadets, giving an AE presentation to preschoolers and deploying in a real USAF Assigned mission I realized that some words types on the internet could not stand up to the feelings o fservice I felt.

Yes, CAP is not the US Military...but it is valuable service.  Once we all rememeber that, the slings and arrows of our detractors sting a lot less.

[JohnKachenmeister]

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You missed the point entirely

No, he didn't.

[JohnKachenmeister]

How so?  CAP is the Civil Air Patrol, it has its strengths in being what it is, a group of Civilian Airmen (Minutemen of the Skies) that are called upon by the USAF, and other Government, to accomplish elements of the USAF domestic mission.

Wearing the Uniform is the best manifestation of that link.  However, the USAF does not regulate CAP in the necessary scope for CAP to be considered a "part of the USAF."  It is, the individual CAP officer's responsibility to maintain that professional appearance that will keep CAP a valuable part of the Air Force Team.

Thus, depending on the USAF to "save us" is crazy.  It is up to US to save US.

Actually, Sparky, the AF does control CAP, through the BoG.  If you dont beleive me, ask "The Nameless One."  We are the only military auxiliary that saw combat action in WWII, and we were re-organized as a corporation in order to allow us to provide services  to agencies other than the AF... NOT to create some sort of separate corporate entity.

[Major Carrales]

Actually, Sparky, the AF does control CAP, through the BoG.  If you dont beleive me, ask "The Nameless One."  We are the only military auxiliary that saw combat action in WWII, and we were re-organized as a corporation in order to allow us to provide services  to agencies other than the AF... NOT to create some sort of separate corporate entity.

Yes, I know this...however, if we are expecting the USAF to "save us" or want them to somehow "take us over and amke us more professional" that is unrealistic.  The groups of people who will save us will come from each of us "having faith in CAP" and making it more professional.

We are not posers and pretenders, we are what we are and have been what we have been.