How long before becoming a CC?

[Stonewall]

A spin off from the "Do retired military officers make better commanders" thread.

For all of you current and former CAP Squadron Commanders, how long were you in CAP before becoming a CC?

If your time in service (TIS) includes time as a cadet, how long?

I was in CAP 15 years before I took command as of a squadron.  Prior to that, I had been Leadership Officer, Deputy Commander for Cadets of 2 different squadron, served on wing staff in the ES department, and spent almost 5 years as a cadet.

[RiverAux]

2 years as a cadet, then a long break, then about 4 years as a senior, all of which was actively spent filling at least one staff position, including a year or so as Sq Deputy Commander.  Being a CAP nerd I think I had an excellent grasp of the program by the time I took over.  Anyone in less than 2 years would be suspect in my book. 

[Ricochet13]

I checked 3-6, but a little misleading as I had previously been Deputy Commander, and served on Wing Staff as Plans & Programs Officer.  Could have had it sooner, but passed on the "opportunity"  earlier as I had "been there, done that" in the service as an infantry company commander.  Stepped back and am now Squadron Commander in the process of rebuilding a local squadron around ES and with a goal of unit deployment rather than individual deployment.  We're doing pretty good too!   :clap:

[Stonewall]

Maybe I should have put a spot for what rank? 

I was a CAP major at the time of being appointed CC, and about 6 months later attended RSC and was pinned Lt Col.

I've seen a handful of new CAP members get "frocked" to 1st Lt for taking command of a squadron within 6 months of joining CAP.

[Fireball]

I spent two years as squadron ES officer and one as Deputy Commander before assuming Command of a composite squadron. I am now ES officer for the western part of our Group and DR officer for my Squadron. My experience in the Army (E4 11B) helped out on the Senior side, but my experiences as a JROTC cadet, Boy Scout, and later Cubmaster for my son's Pack helped me immensely with the Cadet side of the house.

[RickFranz]

6 years as a Cadet, first year as a Senior asked to be a Flight Commander.  Next go was a DCC then a Squadron Commander, then after a move I was asked to be a Squadron Commander again.  I had 6 years on active duty in the Air Force as an Airman and NCO.

[bosshawk]

I checked 6-9 yrs, but don't really know how long it was.  I had been the Aircraft Manager for two C-182s, Ops Officer,  ES Officer, Mission Pilot and deputy CC before becoming CC.  Of course, had three tours in the Army as either a Company or Detachment Commander, including one overseas.  Had extensive staff experience in the Army, so staff wasn't new to me, either.  Since changing Sqs, have been DCS and Aircraft Manager before moving up to Wing Staff.

[SDF_Specialist]

This is a topic that sometimes irritates me. First, you have to make sure there is no policy for your Wing stating a specific age to become a commander. Second, even though you may have the credentials to back up that you would be a good commander, sometimes you have to know someone in order to get the position. It's not all the time, but sometimes. No, I'm not speaking from expirience. I haven't tried to become a commander yet. But it's in the cards

[mikeylikey]

First, you have to make sure there is no policy for your Wing stating a specific age to become a commander.

Does your Wing have a policy like that?  I just don't agree with something like that. 

[Stonewall]

There are acceptions to everything in life...and CAP.  One of the best commanders I've ever known took the reigns at age 23.  I couldn't imagine a prescribed age limit, minimum or maximum.  Sometimes these CAP volunteers can surprise you...and disappoint you.  It's just a matter of whether or not you're willing to take a chance.

In my overall experience, however, I've seen the better commanders be the guys with a combination of cadet experience, with several years of senior member experience, with, perhaps, a few years military experience.  Doesn't make it gospel, just basing this on my personal experience.

[SDF_Specialist]

First, you have to make sure there is no policy for your Wing stating a specific age to become a commander.

Does your Wing have a policy like that?  I just don't agree with something like that. 

My Wing has the policy that a commander must be at least 25 years or older. Stonewall said that one of the best commanders he's ever known took the reigns at 23. IMHO, the best unit commander is one that was a prior cadet. That member would know what the cadet program would need, and also know what the seniors need. I don't agree with the age limit either. The previous Wing Commander explained it to me as a maturity issue. I can understand that to a point. Why not have a review board for the member if they feel that maturity would be an issue? If a member wants the command spot bad enough, that member would got to Wing HQ, and go through that board. I know I would. I don't think it's fair to assume the worst of people of a certain age. But I cannot argue if there is a history of people within a certain age range not meeting the expectation of those higher up.

[RiverAux]

I certainly wouldn't be in favor of a written policy on something like that.  I can very easily see some former cadets who get a some good productive years as seniors under their belts taking over a unit.  However, being at one time a "young" CAP senior member (I still mostly am, but am getting more typical with every birthday) a senior member under 25 would face some significant obstacles in leading a typical senior or composite squadron in dealing with older members.  But, if they were outstanding enough to even be considered for the post, they could probably overcome it. 

[tribalelder]

Cadet at 15(1965), CC at 22 at WO, shortly thereafter to 2LT.  (Mitchell, Earhart, 7c and degreed)

[CAPSGT]

There are acceptions to everything in life...and CAP.  One of the best commanders I've ever known took the reigns at age 23.  I couldn't imagine a prescribed age limit, minimum or maximum.  Sometimes these CAP volunteers can surprise you...and disappoint you.  It's just a matter of whether or not you're willing to take a chance.

In my overall experience, however, I've seen the better commanders be the guys with a combination of cadet experience, with several years of senior member experience, with, perhaps, a few years military experience.  Doesn't make it gospel, just basing this on my personal experience.

I think you hit it right on with this, UK.  I was a group commander at 10 days after I turned 21 and would say that while my almost 8 years of cadet experiences certainly helped me out, I was in no position to successfully do the job (it was a group that nobody wanted, so the last one to step back got it).  Now, with a couple years as a senior member under my belt I would say that I am much more comfortable taking a CC position.

I have also seen some folks around retirement age that were amazing squadron commanders and I've seen some young ones that have been amazing as well.  I think it really comes down to personality, flexibility of schedules, and energy. 

[mikeylikey]

My Wing has the policy that a commander must be at least 25 years or older.  The previous Wing Commander explained it to me as a maturity issue.

I don't want to Hijack Kirt's thread, but I am amazed at that.  That actually shows the Wing Commander and whomever supported him or her to be idiotic.  How can maturity be calculated by age when a person is "technically" an adult.  I think it shows lack of maturity on the part of the Wing Commander.  It amazes me at what NHQ allows Wings to do, just because there is no guidance in the Reg's.

[SDF_Specialist]

My Wing has the policy that a commander must be at least 25 years or older.  The previous Wing Commander explained it to me as a maturity issue.

I don't want to Hijack Kirt's thread, but I am amazed at that.  That actually shows the Wing Commander and whomever supported him or her to be idiotic.  How can maturity be calculated by age when a person is "technically" an adult.  I think it shows lack of maturity on the part of the Wing Commander.  It amazes me at what NHQ allows Wings to do, just because there is no guidance in the Reg's.

Well even though I don't like the policy, I respect it. I give the man a ton of credit and respect for looking out for his Wing. I just don't see how restricting the age limit on commanders measures their maturity levels.

[CadetProgramGuy]

I checked 3-6, but I need to qualify and confess somthing.

I have never been a squadron commander.  I had 5 years in before I was offered a command.  I declined as I was at a wing level job.

[Tim Medeiros]

I was offered a command when I was just 19.  The group commander said "just turn senior and you'll have a squadron", I kept refusing based on 1) I wanted to get my Spaatz, 2) I was too busy with school, 3) family and friends would've shot me on the spot.  Of course I didn't tell him reason #3 :p  The unit he was offering me was my first unit as a cadet and at the time it was a mess, not something for someone who was overloading on college coursework to inherit.  At the time I would have had about 6 years in as a cadet, and by the time paperwork processed maybe a month as a SM.

[bosshawk]

I'll add to the confusion: my experience has been that a significant number of times, you have to coerce someone to take Sq command.  I have only been in two CAP squadrons and, in both cases, it was like pulling hens teeth to get someone to accept command.  Must be different in other Wings and Regions.

[CadetProgramGuy]

I'll add to the confusion: my experience has been that a significant number of times, you have to coerce someone to take Sq command.  I have only been in two CAP squadrons and, in both cases, it was like pulling hens teeth to get someone to accept command.  Must be different in other Wings and Regions.

Well In IAWG, under the Old- New Wing transition, only company grades were allowed to have command of the squadron.  All Field grades were to be assigned to the wing.  So IOW, I wanted to be a squadron CC, and I had 2 years to Major, with Lvl 3 complete and 95% of Lvl 4 complete.

[Al Sayre]

I was a cadet for about 5 years, then a long break that included my Navy service.  When I rejoined as a senior, I was given the command after about 4 months...

[dwb]

Well In IAWG, under the Old- New Wing transition, only company grades were allowed to have command of the squadron.  All Field grades were to be assigned to the wing.

Wow, and I thought NYWG had some dumb policies in the past.  Way to discourage people from promoting.

On the topic, I have to change my vote, because I can't add.  I took command of my squadron in my 11th year of service.  But some of that time was as a cadet, and I think I was too young to be squadron commander.

[Fifinella]

I joined CAP to volunteer "3 hours a week".  10 months later I was the Sq/CC.  (Don't ask how many hours a week I spend on CAP - it's WAY more than 3.)

No previous experience with CAP, but 4 years as a cadet at USAFA, followed by 9 years as AF pilot.  Master's in Organizational Behavior.  AND I hired a DCC who had 28 years CAP experience, and was a previous Wing DCP.  I spent a LOT of time in the regs, and took as much training as I could get, as fast as I could get it, traveling across the US to get it.

Were there times I had to say, "I don't know, but I know where to look it up"?  Sure.  Did I ever say, "Well, I'm not sure how it's supposed to be in CAP, but the AF rule is.."? Yes.  But I learned.

[SDF_Specialist]

Were there times I had to say, "I don't know, but I know where to look it up"?  Sure.  Did I ever say, "Well, I'm not sure how it's supposed to be in CAP, but the AF rule is.."? Yes.  But I learned.

I think everyone who wants it should get the chance to be a Squadron CC. If they like it, then pursue it up the chain. If they had their fun, then that's that. Now I have a question. If you get a new CC, and he/she is just not hacking it after a year, what do you do? If you see that there is no action being taken at any level, what do you do? No one wants to be involved in a unit that could care less if the members show up, or if the regs are even remotely followed, or if the uniforms are semi proper. If you care about the unit, and enjoy CAP, are you expected to just sit back, and let the unit go down the drain?

[NYWG Historian]

11 years total before taking a Squadron CC slot--5 as cadet (then 5 years out), then 6 as senior, including DCC and Group ES (ADY) tenures.

That 2 year stint was probably my happiest within CAP.  Group CC for 3.5 years after, but nowhere near as much fun!  A couple of my former cadets still recall Capt Turecek's death march across the George Washington Bridge and along the Palisades trail....Would definitely return to a Squadron some day if the rest of life would slow down enough....

[Flying Pig]

6 years as a cadet.  4 year break for the Marines.  5 years as a Senior as the DCC. 3 year break.  Came back and spent  1 year as Deputy for Seniors/ ES Officer, then suddenly thrust into SQ. Comm by default 3 months ago.

[DrDave]

One year.

Came with the job as Group Commander (i.e. Group HQ "squadron" command).

(Yep, went to group command after being in CAP one year and no prior squadron command experience -- working out okay.  Used to be the largest group in the wing, currently overseeing 11 squadrons.  Do NOT compare me with "he who shall not be named", who also shot up the command tree.)

Dr. Dave

[DrDave]

Were there times I had to say, "I don't know, but I know where to look it up"?  Sure.  Did I ever say, "Well, I'm not sure how it's supposed to be in CAP, but the AF rule is.."? Yes.  But I learned.

I think everyone who wants it should get the chance to be a Squadron CC. If they like it, then pursue it up the chain. If they had their fun, then that's that. Now I have a question. If you get a new CC, and he/she is just not hacking it after a year, what do you do? If you see that there is no action being taken at any level, what do you do? No one wants to be involved in a unit that could care less if the members show up, or if the regs are even remotely followed, or if the uniforms are semi proper. If you care about the unit, and enjoy CAP, are you expected to just sit back, and let the unit go down the drain?

That's when the Group Commander should take an active interest in that squadron.  Start showing up to meetings, observe and interview both cadet and senior members, see directly how the squadron is doing and if the squadron commander needs a little push or a big kick in the pants, or even removal.

I make it a policy to go to as many of my squadron's meetings as possible, mainly unannounced.  At first it scared the bejeebers out of my squadron commanders when I walk in, but now they're used to it.  Keeping a finger on the pulse of my squadrons.

Dr. Dave