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State Leave Legislation

Started by DrDave, January 16, 2008, 02:50:21 AM

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DrJbdm

Ultimately, CAP needs to be covered under the Federal leave act for Reserve and National Guard troops.  State leave acts are great, it's a step in the right direction but it's my opinion that CAP as the USAF Aux. should be covered under the Federal military Leave Act for actual ES/AF Missions.

♠SARKID♠

QuoteWould a list of the state bills I've accumulated, and their links be helpful for this thread?

Dr. Dave

Yes, diefinetely!

Johnny Yuma

QuoteWe also protect cadets who miss school for missions IC 20-33-2-17.2


WIWAC, Our parents simply called and told the school we wouldn't there. There was only one time anyone ever questioned it and he was answered with a reply from my father that I'm unable to print.

That vice principal never again questioned parental authority to excuse their children from classes ever again from my parents.
"And Saint Attila raised the Holy Hand Grenade up on high saying, "Oh Lord, Bless us this Holy Hand Grenade, and with it smash our enemies to tiny bits. And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs, and stoats, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and lima bean-"

" Skip a bit, brother."

"And then the Lord spake, saying: "First, shalt thou take out the holy pin. Then shalt thou count to three. No more, no less. "Three" shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the counting shall be three. "Four" shalt thou not count, and neither count thou two, execpting that thou then goest on to three. Five is RIGHT OUT. Once the number three, being the third number be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade to-wards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuffit. Amen."

Armaments Chapter One, verses nine through twenty-seven:

♠SARKID♠

Okay, heres the word folks.  The bill didn't get passed because the session ended before it could be voted on.  BUT, I was talking to the wing king over the weekend (WIWG cadet comp) and he said that we had the full support of our legislation.  The bill will be reintroduced next session, and is expected to be passed with out any trouble.  So not only will we get our law, but we've also introduced many of the states representatives to CAP and put our name and reputation into the mix.

Eclipse

Quote from: Johnny Yuma on March 15, 2008, 06:28:54 PM
QuoteWe also protect cadets who miss school for missions IC 20-33-2-17.2

WIWAC, Our parents simply called and told the school we wouldn't there. There was only one time anyone ever questioned it and he was answered with a reply from my father that I'm unable to print.

That vice principal never again questioned parental authority to excuse their children from classes ever again from my parents.

Sadly, I have had more than one occasion where a >COACH< refuses to excuse a cadet from practice for a CAP activity.

Ridiculous.

"That Others May Zoom"

mynetdude

Quote from: Eclipse on March 17, 2008, 02:50:53 AM
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on March 15, 2008, 06:28:54 PM
QuoteWe also protect cadets who miss school for missions IC 20-33-2-17.2

WIWAC, Our parents simply called and told the school we wouldn't there. There was only one time anyone ever questioned it and he was answered with a reply from my father that I'm unable to print.

That vice principal never again questioned parental authority to excuse their children from classes ever again from my parents.

Sadly, I have had more than one occasion where a >COACH< refuses to excuse a cadet from practice for a CAP activity.

Ridiculous.

That is sad, because CAP excuses cadets for school activities! However, sports practice is important too so there has to be a balance; which is why many cadets whom I've met in my squadron are all doing sports rather than CAP because of time constraints and for the reason they get reprimanded when they miss practice.

I don't see why a coach couldn't excuse them from one or two practices since CAP is more than willing to excuse cadets for school activities otherwise.

Eclipse

Quote from: mynetdude on March 17, 2008, 02:53:57 AM
Sadly, I have had more than one occasion where a >COACH< refuses to excuse a cadet from practice for a CAP activity.

Ridiculous.

That is sad, because CAP excuses cadets for school activities! However, sports practice is important too so there has to be a balance; which is why many cadets whom I've met in my squadron are all doing sports rather than CAP because of time constraints and for the reason they get reprimanded when they miss practice.

I don't see why a coach couldn't excuse them from one or two practices since CAP is more than willing to excuse cadets for school activities otherwise.

Frankly, and my bias will show, because most schools no longer place sports in the perspective they should be.  One situation was on Memorial day when a coach would not excuse a cadet to march in a parade on a day when the school itself was closed.

As I understand it, the cadet quit the sport.

Perspective, coach. 

I agree on pricipal that as kids hit high school age they need to start learning that life is choice, and that despite what they have been told, they can't do everything, but no student should have to make a choice between sports or CAP for a situation like this.

"That Others May Zoom"

mynetdude

Quote from: Eclipse on March 17, 2008, 03:47:35 AM
Quote from: mynetdude on March 17, 2008, 02:53:57 AM
Sadly, I have had more than one occasion where a >COACH< refuses to excuse a cadet from practice for a CAP activity.

Ridiculous.

That is sad, because CAP excuses cadets for school activities! However, sports practice is important too so there has to be a balance; which is why many cadets whom I've met in my squadron are all doing sports rather than CAP because of time constraints and for the reason they get reprimanded when they miss practice.

I don't see why a coach couldn't excuse them from one or two practices since CAP is more than willing to excuse cadets for school activities otherwise.

Frankly, and my bias will show, because most schools no longer place sports in the perspective they should be.  One situation was on Memorial day when a coach would not excuse a cadet to march in a parade on a day when the school itself was closed.

As I understand it, the cadet quit the sport.

Perspective, coach. 

I agree on pricipal that as kids hit high school age they need to start learning that life is choice, and that despite what they have been told, they can't do everything, but no student should have to make a choice between sports or CAP for a situation like this.

I agree, as I see it in both ways... now requiring practice on a national holiday just kindof goes against it especially if the cadet wants to participate in a parade march for CAP or whatever service organization they participate (AFJROTC, whatever).

When I was a kid, I didn't get the opportunity to be a cadet.  But then again I wouldn't have ever had time or could do well anyway.  Now I'm an adult, I am able to decide how/what I want to do yet I still can't do everything either.

Johnny Yuma

Quote from: Eclipse on March 17, 2008, 02:50:53 AM
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on March 15, 2008, 06:28:54 PM
QuoteWe also protect cadets who miss school for missions IC 20-33-2-17.2

WIWAC, Our parents simply called and told the school we wouldn't there. There was only one time anyone ever questioned it and he was answered with a reply from my father that I'm unable to print.

That vice principal never again questioned parental authority to excuse their children from classes ever again from my parents.

Sadly, I have had more than one occasion where a >COACH< refuses to excuse a cadet from practice for a CAP activity.

Ridiculous.

IMHO, this is where the schools need to be sharply reminded as to who's the parent and who's simply a school employee paid for by said parent's tax dollars.

But then again, I had a H.S. principal who was a guardsman and pretty much treated CAP cadets like we had a duty outside of school when it came to missions. His Vice principals, however, were a different story...
"And Saint Attila raised the Holy Hand Grenade up on high saying, "Oh Lord, Bless us this Holy Hand Grenade, and with it smash our enemies to tiny bits. And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs, and stoats, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and lima bean-"

" Skip a bit, brother."

"And then the Lord spake, saying: "First, shalt thou take out the holy pin. Then shalt thou count to three. No more, no less. "Three" shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the counting shall be three. "Four" shalt thou not count, and neither count thou two, execpting that thou then goest on to three. Five is RIGHT OUT. Once the number three, being the third number be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade to-wards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuffit. Amen."

Armaments Chapter One, verses nine through twenty-seven:

SAR-EMT1

I wonder if this applies to the cadets of the school programs  ::)
C. A. Edgar
AUX USCG Flotilla 8-8
Former CC / GLR-IL-328
Firefighter, Paramedic, Grad Student

♠SARKID♠

Bump

WI is introducing our leave bill again.  Hopefully this session we won't run out of time and actually get the darn thing passed!  :)

http://resdon111.googlepages.com/2009LegislativeBillLRB-1340.pdf

Ricochet13

Quote from: Eclipse on March 17, 2008, 02:50:53 AM
Quote from: Johnny Yuma on March 15, 2008, 06:28:54 PM
QuoteWe also protect cadets who miss school for missions IC 20-33-2-17.2

WIWAC, Our parents simply called and told the school we wouldn't there. There was only one time anyone ever questioned it and he was answered with a reply from my father that I'm unable to print.

That vice principal never again questioned parental authority to excuse their children from classes ever again from my parents.

Sadly, I have had more than one occasion where a >COACH< refuses to excuse a cadet from practice for a CAP activity.

Ridiculous.

Probably not from the coach's point of view or the other members of the team.  An ES mission perhaps, but not for an activity other than that.  You join a team, you make a commitment.  And frankly, one of life's lesson is that you can't do everything. 

Eclipse

Quote from: Ricochet13 on February 17, 2009, 12:03:13 AM
Probably not from the coach's point of view or the other members of the team.  An ES mission perhaps, but not for an activity other than that.  You join a team, you make a commitment.  And frankly, one of life's lesson is that you can't do everything. 

I tend to agree, and could be quoted here and elsewhere telling people that "life is choice", however with that said, a lot of high school coaches need to get over themselves and realize that they aren't coaching pro teams and missing an occasional practice, or even a game, for something else worthwhile should not be the end of the world.

"That Others May Zoom"

Flying Pig

#53
I could see a huge problem with an employer if the CAP member employee starts recruiting people at his/her  work place.   I wouldn't blame a boss or manager from getting upset.  Although, I dont see a lot of people clocking out to go look for an ELT and loose a day of pay.  
I would anticipate some of your fellow employees who are Reservists or Guard members might be giving you the cold shoulder.  I wouldnt be walking around my work place making a huge deal out of taking time off to go look for an ELT.
Its interesting CAP is pushing for the same protection as a military member who is involuntarily called to duty.  CAP members CHOOSE to get "activated".  Military members don't.  

As far as cadets leaving school to go look for ELTs...Uhhhhh...No.  And I dont blame coaches for telling a cadet they need to make a decision either.

 There are  a number of members here who claim they have told their cadets they need to choose or risk being tossed from CAP. - (I edited/added this)

The coach has a job to do.  Telling a student/cadet they need to choose isnt evil.   Some of you are going to fall out of your chairs, but I would have no issue at all if a cadet placed CAP on the back burner for a sport.  None.  We'll put the cadet on hold, and when they return they can pick up where they left off.  I have had many cadets who have only been able to attend 2 meetings per month because of a deal they struck with their coach.  No problem.


Rotorhead

Quote from: Flying Pig on February 17, 2009, 12:10:57 AM
I could see a huge problem with an employer if the CAP member employee starts recruiting people at his/her  work place.   I wouldn't blame a boss or manager from getting upset.  Although, I dont see a lot of people clocking out to go look for an ELT and loose a day of pay.  

Be interesting to hear whether they continue to complain about the loss of pay when they're summoned for jury duty, though...
Capt. Scott Orr, CAP
Deputy Commander/Cadets
Prescott Composite Sqdn. 206
Prescott, AZ

Eclipse

#55
Quote from: Flying Pig on February 17, 2009, 12:10:57 AM
I could see a huge problem with an employer if the CAP member employee starts recruiting people at his/her  work place.   I wouldn't blame a boss or manager from getting upset.  Although, I don't see a lot of people clocking out to go look for an ELT and loose a day of pay.  
I would anticipate some of your fellow employees who are Reservists or Guard members might be giving you the cold shoulder.  I wouldn't be walking around my work place making a huge deal out of taking time off to go look for an ELT.
Its interesting CAP is pushing for the same protection as a military member who is involuntarily called to duty.  CAP members CHOOSE to get "activated".  Military members don't.

Generally this is not for ELT's, this is is for extended missions such as we just had in KY - some members were down there more than a week and off work at least 5 days. 

Unlike the military, CAP deployments are generally incredibly last-minute, and very short-term (1-2 weeks max).

Unlike the military, CAP members are not receiving pay of any kind (other than possibly a small per diem), and are likely
either taking vacation time or unpaid leave.

I don't think its unreasonable to expect that their job is protected when they "have" to leave to go help someone else, especially when you consider all the other situations which are now protected for extended leave, not the least of which is FMLA that can be activated with little warning for any number of reasons leaving a boss with an empty, protected chair for up to 12 weeks.

"That Others May Zoom"

Flying Pig

Yeah.....I guess Im middle of the road with this.  As long as the CAP member is smart about it, and we police our own ie. people using CAP as an excuse to take a day off, it would be a huge plus for CAP.  With this economic climate, I guess I feel for the business owner who has yet another mandated law to let people leave.  Not to mention the business managers who are forced to call an employee in on Overtime to fill the loss.  Like I have said before, Im not opposed really.  Losing volunteers, Air Crews, Ground Crews, etc. because they will get fired from their job could really cause CAP to suffer in its roles.

afgeo4

There is now a proposal into the New York State legislature for authorization for paid leave for Civil Air Patrol members performing duties for the organization.

The proposed bill allows for up to 20 days of paid leave to perform training and/or actual missions for State and local government employees. The bill doesn't specify that Air Force orders must be present and states that the training/mission must be approved by the member's CAP commander. The bill also stipulates that the member's seniority and position must not be lost during that leave.

I think it's a great idea that must be extended to private sector employees as well. Not enough senior members would be activated in New York if you only activated the ones who work for the government. I also think the word "training" should be better clarified. As it is, "training" could mean regular meetings, SAREXs, random flights with training mission numbers, encampments, etc. I think using the law for all those would be abusive to the employers. I think activations for Disaster Relief missions, search and rescue missions, and encampments should be the criteria. Why? Because the rest of the training can easily be and usually is done on weekends or during free time. Paid time off for encampments is essential to keep encampments well staffed and for the members not to go crazy using up half of all their annual vacation time working.
GEORGE LURYE

Eclipse

You can't force the private sector to give people paid anything.  The military is not afforded a benefit like that, why would CAP?

I'm all for job protection for emergencies and disasters, especially because in many cases you might be piling sandbags at or near your employers front door, but going to an encampment, or NESA, is a personal choice, and allowing protection in those cases would leave a pretty wide door open for abuse.

It should be mission-number based activities only, preferably on written orders.

"That Others May Zoom"

RiverAux

Quote from: Eclipse on September 01, 2011, 08:29:20 PM
You can't force the private sector to give people paid anything. 
Sure you can.  Whether or not its a good idea is another story.