Here is one to ponder...Would you burn your CAP uniform?

[Major Carrales]

Bear with me...it starts with an unlikely scenario... (The POLITICS is not the point especially since it is totally fictional, but rather your actions in the aftermath)

In March of 2012, a revolution in Mexico brings forth a sort of National Socialist movement that takes power  and immediately negates NAFTA assuming an Anti-American posture.  The US attempts to intervene, but internal pressures after the recent withdrawl of US troops from the Middle East makes it an unpopular move.

In September of that year, Venezuela and Mexico begin a major Anti-American push and culminate it with a Conquest of Central America.   These nations are well armed and are totally militarized.  US military action is threatened, however, anti-war forces are in power and a prolonged war in Central America is dismissed as having no bearing on US interests.  Panama, Nicaraugua, Honduras and Guatamala FALL!

In Mid-2014, with help from Separatists in the Southwest, disrupt the Southwest to the point that a successful invasion of South Texas, New Mexico, parts of Arizona and Southern California are occupied.  It turns out to be folly on the part of the Mexican-Venezuelan Alliance, however, the US has difficulty retaking the area due to obvious issues related to the Civilian population.

The Southwestern US is OCCUPIED...albeit, it is likely to be temporary (a year or so) 

There is a CAP uniform hanging in your closet.  Do you burn it?  What might they do to you? Would you fight?  resistance? Collaboration?

What would you do?

[JC004]

Invade Brazil and take back our seal.

[♠SARKID♠]

Wow sir, way to get the creative juices going!  I'd keep the uniform and fight back.  Burning it would just mean that you're trying to hide from the invaders.  Backing down like that is something I'd never do.  Americans aren't the kind of people that would retreat from that kind of an attack.  Two Americans can debate a war on foreign soil till the cows come home, but an invasion? On our turf?  I don't think theres a soul in the country that would stand for that.  Keep the uniform.  Wear it for all to see.  And if the invaders don't like it, I'd go down with my name on my chest, my boots on my feet, and a flag on my sleeve.

Invade Brazil and take back our seal.

That too.

[Major Carrales]

Invade Brazil and take back our seal.

Would you burn your uniform?  ..or wear it proudly?  Let's not derail this with such tangents...it is a very interesting philosophical debate.

Does one turn their back on their National Pride to survive...or cling to it.  Is the Pledge of Alligience merely words...or, is it a pledge to the Republic for all times?

[Major Carrales]

Wow sir, way to get the creative juices going!  I'd keep the uniform and fight back.  Burning it would just mean that you're trying to hide from the invaders.  Backing down like that is something I'd never do.  Americans aren't the kind of people that would retreat from that kind of an attack.  Two Americans can debate a war on foreign soil till the cows come home, but an invasion? On our turf?  I don't think theres a soul in the country that would stand for that.  Keep the uniform.  Wear it for all to see.  And if the invaders don't like it, I'd go down with my name on my chest, my boots on my feet, and a flag on my sleeve.

There is a good chance you could be rounded up and shot as a sabotuer...or labeled enemy combatant.    As they trample your 4th Amendment Rights and ransack your closet to find your blues, service coat.  My service cap.  The BDUs with the American Flag.  You CAP id...you are a paramilitary radical. 

You might need "re-education."

[RiverAux]

WOLVERINES!!!!

[♠SARKID♠]

There is a good chance you could be rounded up and shot as a sabotuer...or labeled enemy combatant.    As they trample your 4th Amendment Rights and ransack your closet to find your blues, service coat.  My service cap.  The BDUs with the American Flag.  You CAP id...you are a paramilitary radical. 

You might need "re-education."

I may sound crazy, but I'd take that over an occupation. 

[Major Carrales]

WOLVERINES!!!!

I was trying to avoid that.  I don't want this thread locked.

It is a question of character.

There have been traitors since the dawn of this nation, including "the most brilliant soldier of the Continental Army."   I want to know what people would really do if it came down to CAP could get you shot.  

I know many of you live for CAP...would you die for it?

[RiverAux]

I answered your question.

[SoCalCAPOfficer]

One would hope that there would be widespread resistance.   However, a lot of the younger population has not been raised with the same since of national pride and tradition that many of us grey beards have.   Therefore, I can only speak for myself.
I would probably carry my uniforms and my guns and try and get a hold of an airplane to fly to the unoccupied portion of the United States and offer to help in what ever capacity I could.   The Uniform would be the least of my worries as I keep a large collection of guns and ammunition.  I would either have to hide them all, offer them to those that want to resist, or try and take them with me in an escape attempt by air,  4 wheel drive, or motorcycle.   I would not burn my uniform or my flag, since having the guns would probably be considered a worse offense and I would be up the creek either way.  Might as well go down with my pride intact.  At least thats what I hope I would do.  One never knows until you actually face the test.

[Major Carrales]

I answered your question.

I know, but there are some moderators here that lock topics that seem to drift into popular culture.  I want to keep this an upper level thinking activity.

In all honestly, I think I would be killed in the first days of the invasion.  Not likely to survive into the occupation part.  I would likely try to get my wife and children (then there will be two girls, we have one on the way now)  I would be part of the tolken resistance armed with .22 caliber weapons and an assortment of hunting rifles, buying time for them to get as far North as possible.

I doubt they could launch an invasion that would "canvass" South Texas.  In fact, I think they might use lots of heavy bombing of key points of infrastructure.  The roll in some thing like a division.  Appoint a "governor" of let's say the Corpus Christi District with smaller units garrisoning places like my hometown.  About 300 soldiers could properly garrision Premont, Texas.  They would keep local authorities in charge...albiet under coersion.

These unit would be quite stressed and make it apoint to use the day time to search civilian homes for weapons...evidence of "trouble makers."

Those of you more "European" types would likley fair better than a person like myself...likely viewed in that situation as a "traitor to my people."  That would likey find me made an example of.

If I could not get my family out, I think my wife would likely burn my uniforms.  

[Major Carrales]

 One never knows until you actually face the test.

Very wise observation, indeed.  It is easy to make grandiose PATRIOTIC statements here...when we sit in comfort infront of our computers.  What if there is a platoon of enemy soldiers camped in the empty lot next to your house?

They participate in various degrees of harassment to you and your family by day.  You meet the occasional "good hearted and kind" enemy that is just their doing their duty...as well as the mad psycopath that want's to slit your throat and rape your wife.

Food is rationed...the US could counterattack at anytime.  A fact that likely will wear down the civilized elements of the occupiers.

 

[Major Carrales]

One would hope that there would be widespread resistance.   However, a lot of the younger population has not been raised with the same since of national pride and tradition that many of us grey beards have.   Therefore, I can only speak for myself.

We should ask cadets about that, about how their peers might react.

Many kids really have such apathy and ignorance that they might be a dangerous element even to their families.  Already, kids misbehave at Veteran's Day assemblies and ock the Pledge and other ceremonies.  Many can't even abide by a simpel dress code.

We were all raised in relative domestic peace.  None of us had to fear our neighborhood in rubble like Brits during the blitz or like those areas of Israel where bombs go off and disrupt and kill those of both sides.

[Major Carrales]

If the modern senario is too...politcally  charged or comes off as too "RED DAWN."

Let's shift it back along the timeline.  It's WWII, Normandy's outcome is not as it is in our timeline.  Operation Overlord fails.  The Japanese mount an invasion of the West Coast.

England falls...The Axis controls the American Southwest and the Pacific Coast to the Rocky Mountains.

Nazi and Japanese zones occupy these sectors.   The US is fighting back, but you are behind the frontlines and will likely stay there for a year to a year and a half.  The Japanese have discovered US Internment camps for Japanese Americans and Alamogordo is in enemy hands...although totally "slashed and burned" by retreating US forces.  We have the bomb, but no way to deploy it to Japanese targets.

You have a set of pinks-'n-greens with red eapulets and CAP cutouts hanging in your closet.  SS Occupation forces raid your house...

Do you burn it?  What might they do to you? Would you fight?  resistance? Collaboration?

What would you do?

[Al Sayre]

First I would thank God that I live in Mississippi, proudly put my uniform on, open up my gun lockers and arm my family and neighbors (the few that don't own more guns than me), round up every redneck I can find and form a resistance, likely heading for the Bayou's along the Mississippi River.  The Japanese and Germans are unlikely to want to pursue a bunch of armed rednecks into the alligator infested swamps (At least not more than once ).  Some of  todays youth are apathetic apolitical ignorant politically correct metrosexuals, but not in this part of the country, I don't think there would be any shortage of volunteers for the resistance...

[♠SARKID♠]

Some of  todays youth are apathetic apolitical ignorant politically correct metrosexuals, but not in this part of the country

any kids really have such apathy and ignorance that they might be a dangerous element even to their families.

You know, not everybody on this board is a senior member.  I don't appreciate you generalizing the youth as lazy and apathetic (Mods, plz dont lock the thread ).  If you think that we would just sit idly by during a massive invasion or revolution your dead @%$*ing wrong.  Many kids are apathetic because their rights and freedoms have never been directly challenged.  Therefore, they hold little value in celebrating the people who fought for those rights.  But if you think for one second that we would pay no attention to a war on our freedoms, families, and homes you've got another thing coming.  You can bet we'd be armed to the teeth ready to fight for what we believe in.

[floridacyclist]

WOLVERINES!!!!

I was scrolling to the end to say the exact same thing when I saw that you beat me to it! LOL

[DHollywood]

Wow.... this is like a certain religion conspiracy theory....

Prior to any of this happening I would be wearing ACU's and armed with issued weapons and kit.  I wouldnt be fighting in a CAP uniform...  we are not armed. 

I would, with no hesitation, take up arms with my infantry brothers and do the job...

[dougsnow]

What was that tacky early 80s movie I remember seeing with my girlfriend when I was in my teens? - Red Dawn? A tacky early 80s movie about Ivan invading the US.

Yeah, I would be in the resistance, or in someway rise in armed insurrection against the invaders, and since blues wouldnt be a good thing to wear traipsing around in the woods, I would probably be wearing the BDUs.  I still remember sight alignment and sight picture lessons from Ft Leonard Wood M16 weapons qualification

Granted, I have no idea where I would get an M-40 Sniper Rifle, or an M16A2, but, I could come up with something

[Nomex Maximus]

Oh gosh... what would I do...

Sort of depends what side of the occupied area I am on, but , oh gosh, the enemy does NOT want me as a member of the resistance.

I am a cranky old software engineer and an airplane builder. I can think of ALL SORTS of weird-ass guerilla warfare weapons and boobytraps that I could quickly build and just start harrassing and murdering  the *&^% out of occupying forces. You think the Iraqis know how to build roadside bombs? Wait until you see the weird computer controlled boobytraps I can think up and deploy on my own. Or small UAVs that can fly in an explosive to almost anywhere.  All undetectable and untraceable.  Or autonomous computer controller sniper rifles - just set it up somewhere and let it hold down a platoon while they get picked off one by one for hours. Don't even get me started on chemical weapons I could deploy from UAVs...

To answer your question about the uniform and the implied participation in CAP, in this kind of a scenario I think my service to CAP would be unimportant. If I were in the occupied area I would burn it as I don't need to be identified as being associated with the US government. If not in the occupied area, I think I would be too busy as a defense software engineer to be engaging in private guerilla warfare.  But if I WERE involved, hoo-boy look out!