When do you become a big deal in the military?

Started by themainmane, April 06, 2016, 08:40:13 PM

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themainmane

So, in the actual military, at what rank would those of you who have served say that someone is a "big deal"? I know in CAP, it's Colonel. But on all sides, enlisted, warrant officer, and officer, when has someone truly gone above and beyond the average lifer in terms of rank? When does it go from "Oh, it's just a Lieutenant/Sergeant/Petty Officer" to "Holy crap, it's a -------"
The master of all that isn't.

Eclipse


"That Others May Zoom"

vesryn

Quote from: Eclipse on April 06, 2016, 09:12:29 PM
When you get one of these...



'Nuff said.

All humor aside, for officers I'd say O6.
Enlisted, E8
WO, probably W5.

Eaker #3363
NYWG Encampment Cadet Commander 2018
NYWG Encampment '13, '14, '15, '18, '19

Storm Chaser

When you get your own parking space everywhere you go on base:


  • O-6 for officers
  • E-9 for enlisted

goblin


abdsp51

When you have done something of enough significance that people you don't know know you. It's not a badge, a dec or even what you wear. 

baronet68

When you're a Medic... And somebody's in need of your skills.
Michael Moore, Lt Col, CAP
National Recruiting & Retention Manager

Storm Chaser

#7
Quote from: themainmane on April 06, 2016, 08:40:13 PM
So, in the actual military, at what rank would those of you who have served say that someone is a "big deal"? I know in CAP, it's Colonel.

One thing to consider is that, while a Col  (O-6) is considered a DV, there are at least six Cols in an Air Force wing:


  • Wing Commander (unless the wing is large)
  • Vice Commander
  • Operations Group Commander
  • Maintenance Group Commander
  • Mission Support Group Commander
  • Medical Group Commander

Some bases have more than six, especially if they host other wings, groups, or agencies.

lordmonar

Like Storm said.  O-6 and E-9 are big deals.  Everything below that is relative.   E-3s are more concerned what their SSgt or TSgt have to say then some random Lt Col or SMSgt.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

themainmane

Quote from: lordmonar on April 06, 2016, 11:28:49 PM
Like Storm said.  O-6 and E-9 are big deals.  Everything below that is relative.   E-3s are more concerned what their SSgt or TSgt have to say then some random Lt Col or SMSgt.

No I get that. I'm in the USMC reserves, and the only thing I have to worry about is my SL. I'm saying from a lifer standpoint. When are other career guys like "[darn]. He's doing well." For me (obviously not even somewhat close to a lifer yet) I'm impressed by an E8, a CWO4, and an O6. I remember one of my friends from boot camp, an admin type, saying that the majority of guys in the Corps retire as E7s, CWO3s, and Lieutenant Colonels. After that point, promotions are incredibly tight and hard to attain in a 20-30 year career.
The master of all that isn't.

lordmonar

#10
If you retire below E-7 or O-5 then something in your career when wrong.  Those two ranks are almost guaranteed if you are competent and keep your nose clean.   

So O-6 and above and E-8s are in the area of going above and beyond the pack.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

goblin

Quote from: lordmonar on April 06, 2016, 11:55:04 PM
If you retire below E-7 or O-5 then something in your career when wrong.  Those two ranks are almost guaranteed if you are competent NDANG keep your nose clean.   

So O-6 and above and E-8s are in the area of going above and beyond the pack.

I know plenty O-4 types that chose to stay in the jet rather than play the career game and retired that way.

themainmane

Quote from: goblin on April 07, 2016, 12:03:08 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on April 06, 2016, 11:55:04 PM
If you retire below E-7 or O-5 then something in your career when wrong.  Those two ranks are almost guaranteed if you are competent NDANG keep your nose clean.   

So O-6 and above and E-8s are in the area of going above and beyond the pack.

I know plenty O-4 types that chose to stay in the jet rather than play the career game and retired that way.

I mean, I guess you could make the argument that something "went wrong" with their career, in the sense that they purposely didn't do what was required of them to promote. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
The master of all that isn't.

SarDragon

In the Navy, it's getting a ship command, or making Chief (E-7).
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

abdsp51

Quote from: lordmonar on April 06, 2016, 11:55:04 PM
If you retire below E-7 or O-5 then something in your career when wrong.  Those two ranks are almost guaranteed if you are competent and keep your nose clean.   

E7 isn't a guarentee anymore especially with the new EPR system and the board.

lordmonar

PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

themainmane

Quote from: SarDragon on April 07, 2016, 12:42:49 AM
In the Navy, it's getting a ship command, or making Chief (E-7).

I've always been amazed by the aura that follows a Navy Chief. They're not even enlisted men anymore in Navy culture. They get their own mess and wear modified officer's uniforms. I always thought that if I ever decided to be a career enlisted man, it would be in the Navy, because being a Chief just seems like an incredible accomplishment even compared to other service's SNCO programs.
The master of all that isn't.

PHall

Quote from: lordmonar on April 06, 2016, 11:55:04 PM
If you retire below E-7 or O-5 then something in your career when wrong.  Those two ranks are almost guaranteed if you are competent and keep your nose clean.   

So O-6 and above and E-8s are in the area of going above and beyond the pack.

This applies pretty much to Active Duty retirement. Rules are way different in the Guard/Reserve.

SarDragon

Quote from: themainmane on April 07, 2016, 12:59:17 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on April 07, 2016, 12:42:49 AM
In the Navy, it's getting a ship command, or making Chief (E-7).

I've always been amazed by the aura that follows a Navy Chief. They're not even enlisted men anymore in Navy culture. They get their own mess and wear modified officer's uniforms. I always thought that if I ever decided to be a career enlisted man, it would be in the Navy, because being a Chief just seems like an incredible accomplishment even compared to other service's SNCO programs.

Oh, they are most assuredly enlisted folks, being the senior NCO corps of the Navy. I was sired by a Chief and am married to another. My experience with Chiefs in general is lifelong.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

themainmane

#19
Quote from: SarDragon on April 07, 2016, 04:33:50 AM
Quote from: themainmane on April 07, 2016, 12:59:17 AM
Quote from: SarDragon on April 07, 2016, 12:42:49 AM
In the Navy, it's getting a ship command, or making Chief (E-7).

I've always been amazed by the aura that follows a Navy Chief. They're not even enlisted men anymore in Navy culture. They get their own mess and wear modified officer's uniforms. I always thought that if I ever decided to be a career enlisted man, it would be in the Navy, because being a Chief just seems like an incredible accomplishment even compared to other service's SNCO programs.

Oh, they are most assuredly enlisted folks, being the senior NCO corps of the Navy. I was sired by a Chief and am married to another. My experience with Chiefs in general is lifelong.

No, I understand this. I just meant that the difference in how a CPO is treated as opposed to a PO1 is so much wider than the difference in treatment between a GySgt and a SSgt, even though it's a jump between the same pay grades.
The master of all that isn't.

killion1506

Rank is commensurate to time in service in most regards. The real way to be a "big deal" is to be proven. Know your stuff, be more than proficient, push others to be  the best they can. You can be any rank and be looked at as the guy who knows whats going on, what they are doing and can easily fill the slot of the person above them. In the Army, at least in the Infantry, when your Sergeant Major knows who you are because you rock, not because you are constantly on the blotter, then you are a big deal. A soldier can come in as an E-4 and not know a single thing about his job, but when a private knows what they are doing as well as what their team leader and squad leader are doing, he is a BIG DEAL. Always be open and honest, if you have to make a decision, make the wrong decision before you make no decision, and remember what it is to excel and go above and beyond. Remember that leadership is a process of influencing others to achieve a common objective goal or mission. A medal means that you were put in a situation to go above and beyond when it really mattered, but having the approval of your superiors means they know that when that time comes, they can count on you to go above and beyond and get them out of the hell storm they are in.

To me, that is being a big deal.

THRAWN

Quote from: themainmane on April 06, 2016, 08:40:13 PM
So, in the actual military, at what rank would those of you who have served say that someone is a "big deal"? I know in CAP, it's Colonel. But on all sides, enlisted, warrant officer, and officer, when has someone truly gone above and beyond the average lifer in terms of rank? When does it go from "Oh, it's just a Lieutenant/Sergeant/Petty Officer" to "Holy crap, it's a -------"

It depends. I think with rank, it's something really rare, like an Army CW-5. I've seen one and nobody believes me...

I think that the position more than rank dictates who is a big deal. In the Navy, like was mentioned, it's the captain of a ship; Air Force it's a wing commander; Army and Marine Corps it's the division commander. On the enlisted side, it's the SEA to each of the levels that I mentioned.

Or, like Eclipse said, it's wearing the MOH. That's a REALLY BIG deal.
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

Storm Chaser

Quote from: abdsp51 on April 07, 2016, 12:53:24 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on April 06, 2016, 11:55:04 PM
If you retire below E-7 or O-5 then something in your career when wrong.  Those two ranks are almost guaranteed if you are competent and keep your nose clean.   

E7 isn't a guarentee anymore especially with the new EPR system and the board.

And neither is O-5. I know plenty of good officers who did everything right and got passed over for O-5.

stillamarine

Quote from: lordmonar on April 06, 2016, 11:55:04 PM
If you retire below E-7 or O-5 then something in your career when wrong.  Those two ranks are almost guaranteed if you are competent and keep your nose clean.   

So O-6 and above and E-8s are in the area of going above and beyond the pack.

In the Marine Corps depending on your MOS you very well may retire at E-6 or E-7. Depending on the career field it can take years to get promoted. It took me 5 years to make Cpl in my active duty MOS (0481). I left active duty and went into a new MOS (0311). I picked up Sgt a year later and SSGT 16 months later (meritoriously). If I stayed on track on active duty I probably would have retired a GySgt based on many of my former shipmates. If I stayed reserves I think I had a decent chance at E-8.

But everyone in the Marine Corps knows the most important rank is Lance Corporal lol.
Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com

MHC5096

In the Air National Guard, making Technical Sergeant (E-6) was a big deal and a bottleneck for many career fields. Unlike the active duty side of the house, the Air National Guard didn't have a higher tenure policy in place. It was very common to see people retire at 20 years as a Staff Sergeant (E-5).

As an example, when I put Technical Sergeant on in 2000 the manning document only allowed for six E-6 billets in the entire state for my AFSC. When I put on Master Sergeant, 2 years later, I was in one of three E-7 billets authorized that grade in the entire state for my AFSC. I know several E-6s who were thrilled when I transferred to the Air Force Reserve, because they knew it was the only way they would put that next chevron on.
Mark H. Crary
Lt Col, CAP (1990-Present)
DDC-P, CGAUX (2011-Present)
MSgt, USAF (1995-2011)
QM2, USN (1989-1995)

themainmane

Quote from: THRAWN on April 07, 2016, 02:59:00 PM
Quote from: themainmane on April 06, 2016, 08:40:13 PM
So, in the actual military, at what rank would those of you who have served say that someone is a "big deal"? I know in CAP, it's Colonel. But on all sides, enlisted, warrant officer, and officer, when has someone truly gone above and beyond the average lifer in terms of rank? When does it go from "Oh, it's just a Lieutenant/Sergeant/Petty Officer" to "Holy crap, it's a -------"

It depends. I think with rank, it's something really rare, like an Army CW-5. I've seen one and nobody believes me...

I think that the position more than rank dictates who is a big deal. In the Navy, like was mentioned, it's the captain of a ship; Air Force it's a wing commander; Army and Marine Corps it's the division commander. On the enlisted side, it's the SEA to each of the levels that I mentioned.

Or, like Eclipse said, it's wearing the MOH. That's a REALLY BIG deal.

Me personally, I don't really crap my pants when I see a CWO5, since my father is one. Not to say that I don't respect it and see it as a helluva achievement, because it recognizes a lifetime of incredible service, but I've just been conditioned on how to react when I see a field grade/general officer. It doesn't really translate well to being an enlisted infantry Marine though  ;D
The master of all that isn't.

PHall

Quote from: MHC5096 on April 07, 2016, 03:54:53 PM
In the Air National Guard, making Technical Sergeant (E-6) was a big deal and a bottleneck for many career fields. Unlike the active duty side of the house, the Air National Guard didn't have a higher tenure policy in place. It was very common to see people retire at 20 years as a Staff Sergeant (E-5).

As an example, when I put Technical Sergeant on in 2000 the manning document only allowed for six E-6 billets in the entire state for my AFSC. When I put on Master Sergeant, 2 years later, I was in one of three E-7 billets authorized that grade in the entire state for my AFSC. I know several E-6s who were thrilled when I transferred to the Air Force Reserve, because they knew it was the only way they would put that next chevron on.

Yep, it's not how good you are, it's what slot are you in! Only way I made E-7 was via a STEP promotion. Because all of the E-7 slots were filled and would be for awhile.

Cliff_Chambliss

When does one become a "Big Deal" in the military?  First, it's not about rank/grade.  There are way too many self serving personnel who have achieved their rank by brown nosing, boot licking, playing yes man/woman, and other means, and not as capable leaders.  Next, not by position.  In today's military where it's all about management instead of leadership, again the ranks are filled with those whose primary in not only goal is to "get the ticket punched" in order to move to the next higher step.
There is that junior enlisted loader/driver,gunner,  always on time, uniform squared away, performs assigned tasks to the best of their ability and always asking what else can I do.
There is the junior NCO (E5/E6) Vehicle Commander/Squad Leader who takes the time to build a bunch of individuals into an effective crew/team.  Who really cares for those subordinates, who teaches and mentors, and cares.
There is the Platoon Sgt/1SG who came up from the preceding.
There is the Officer who early on took the time to listen to and learn from his NCO's and has always remembered without the troops there is no mission.
There are the Big Deals.  The Generals Abrams, Pattons (WWII and Vietnam), Casey; The Warrants Novosel, Freeman: The Enlisted SGM Plumley and others. 
Many who are the "Big Deal" never realize it and would deny it if they were told.  As I sit here writing this I am thinking back to all the "Big Deals" I have known and served with or under during my 24 years active duty.  But try as I might I am having a hard time visualizing those I thought of as yo-yos,  I guess it's he greater the respect the easier it is to remember.  Big Deal, it's not a rank.  It's not a position,  It is all about being a leader.
11th Armored Cavalry Regiment
2d Armored Cavalry Regiment
3d Infantry Division
504th BattleField Surveillance Brigade

ARMY:  Because even the Marines need heros.    
CAVALRY:  If it were easy it would be called infantry.

goblin

Quote from: Cliff_Chambliss on April 08, 2016, 01:13:50 PM
When does one become a "Big Deal" in the military?  First, it's not about rank/grade.  There are way too many self serving personnel who have achieved their rank by brown nosing, boot licking, playing yes man/woman, and other means, and not as capable leaders.  Next, not by position.  In today's military where it's all about management instead of leadership, again the ranks are filled with those whose primary in not only goal is to "get the ticket punched" in order to move to the next higher step.
There is that junior enlisted loader/driver,gunner,  always on time, uniform squared away, performs assigned tasks to the best of their ability and always asking what else can I do.
There is the junior NCO (E5/E6) Vehicle Commander/Squad Leader who takes the time to build a bunch of individuals into an effective crew/team.  Who really cares for those subordinates, who teaches and mentors, and cares.
There is the Platoon Sgt/1SG who came up from the preceding.
There is the Officer who early on took the time to listen to and learn from his NCO's and has always remembered without the troops there is no mission.
There are the Big Deals.  The Generals Abrams, Pattons (WWII and Vietnam), Casey; The Warrants Novosel, Freeman: The Enlisted SGM Plumley and others. 
Many who are the "Big Deal" never realize it and would deny it if they were told.  As I sit here writing this I am thinking back to all the "Big Deals" I have known and served with or under during my 24 years active duty.  But try as I might I am having a hard time visualizing those I thought of as yo-yos,  I guess it's he greater the respect the easier it is to remember.  Big Deal, it's not a rank.  It's not a position,  It is all about being a leader.

I think you're missing the OP's point. I don't disagree with anything above, however nobody is going to come across a hard working Airman/NCO/CGO and have a pucker factor.

However, in my little corner of the world, I work for an O-6 (OG/CC) and still get a little shifty when he or the O-6s he meets with come through the door.

Regardless of leadership styles and everything mentioned above, which I do not discount in the least, I think the intent of the question was when do you finally see someone and the "oh $*!t" factor kicks in.

For me, it's at least O-6.

themainmane

Quote from: goblin on April 08, 2016, 03:37:41 PM
Quote from: Cliff_Chambliss on April 08, 2016, 01:13:50 PM
When does one become a "Big Deal" in the military?  First, it's not about rank/grade.  There are way too many self serving personnel who have achieved their rank by brown nosing, boot licking, playing yes man/woman, and other means, and not as capable leaders.  Next, not by position.  In today's military where it's all about management instead of leadership, again the ranks are filled with those whose primary in not only goal is to "get the ticket punched" in order to move to the next higher step.
There is that junior enlisted loader/driver,gunner,  always on time, uniform squared away, performs assigned tasks to the best of their ability and always asking what else can I do.
There is the junior NCO (E5/E6) Vehicle Commander/Squad Leader who takes the time to build a bunch of individuals into an effective crew/team.  Who really cares for those subordinates, who teaches and mentors, and cares.
There is the Platoon Sgt/1SG who came up from the preceding.
There is the Officer who early on took the time to listen to and learn from his NCO's and has always remembered without the troops there is no mission.
There are the Big Deals.  The Generals Abrams, Pattons (WWII and Vietnam), Casey; The Warrants Novosel, Freeman: The Enlisted SGM Plumley and others. 
Many who are the "Big Deal" never realize it and would deny it if they were told.  As I sit here writing this I am thinking back to all the "Big Deals" I have known and served with or under during my 24 years active duty.  But try as I might I am having a hard time visualizing those I thought of as yo-yos,  I guess it's he greater the respect the easier it is to remember.  Big Deal, it's not a rank.  It's not a position,  It is all about being a leader.

I think you're missing the OP's point. I don't disagree with anything above, however nobody is going to come across a hard working Airman/NCO/CGO and have a pucker factor.

However, in my little corner of the world, I work for an O-6 (OG/CC) and still get a little shifty when he or the O-6s he meets with come through the door.

Regardless of leadership styles and everything mentioned above, which I do not discount in the least, I think the intent of the question was when do you finally see someone and the "oh $*!t" factor kicks in.

For me, it's at least O-6.

Yeah, this is more what I was saying. When, just based on seeing a stranger, does their rank make you say "Oh [mess]."?
The master of all that isn't.

scooter

I think you are a big deal in the military when your signature block says, "Commander" or the equivalent. You dont get to be one unless you are doing something very well. Not all are successful however, so they dont get promoted.

scooter

Forgot the enlisted troops. Senior NCO are a big deal and recognized as such by their Commanders.

Storm Chaser

Quote from: scooter on April 08, 2016, 11:10:42 PM
Forgot the enlisted troops. Senior NCO are a big deal and recognized as such by their Commanders.

I have a lot of respect for SNCOs E-7 through E-9, but E-9s definitely get my attention.

MSG Mac

When you get your 20 year letter stating that you are eligible for retirement. 
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

PHall

Quote from: MSG Mac on April 09, 2016, 12:46:35 AM
When you get your 20 year letter stating that you are eligible for retirement.

I'll see your 20 Year Letter and raise you a 60th Birthday Letter!

Storm Chaser

Quote from: PHall on April 09, 2016, 01:56:07 AM
Quote from: MSG Mac on April 09, 2016, 12:46:35 AM
When you get your 20 year letter stating that you are eligible for retirement.

I'll see your 20 Year Letter and raise you a 60th Birthday Letter!

And a small fraction of that retirement.

PHall

Quote from: Storm Chaser on April 09, 2016, 02:09:44 AM
Quote from: PHall on April 09, 2016, 01:56:07 AM
Quote from: MSG Mac on April 09, 2016, 12:46:35 AM
When you get your 20 year letter stating that you are eligible for retirement.

I'll see your 20 Year Letter and raise you a 60th Birthday Letter!

And a small fraction of that retirement.

7500 points makes for a nice direct deposit every month.  ;-)

Bryce7454

When you do something that has contributed to the defense of the nation. Not when you get to wear colorful shapes on your shoulders.

lordmonar

Quote from: Bryce7454 on April 09, 2016, 06:28:37 AM
When you do something that has contributed to the defense of the nation. Not when you get to wear colorful shapes on your shoulders.
Ehm......everyone who wears the uniform from the lowliest AB at BMTS to the retriing 4 Star AD/NG/RES contributes to the defense of the nation.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

Flying Pig

As a Marine Corporal at Kadena AFB, I was a pretty big deal. 

THRAWN

Quote from: Storm Chaser on April 08, 2016, 11:44:36 PM
Quote from: scooter on April 08, 2016, 11:10:42 PM
Forgot the enlisted troops. Senior NCO are a big deal and recognized as such by their Commanders.

I have a lot of respect for SNCOs E-7 through E-9, but E-9s definitely get my attention.

It depends. There is a big delta between an E9 and a Master Chief and you can tell the difference.
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

GroundHawg

Rank wise, I think it really depends on the service and whether you are active or not.
Ive heard in the Navy and Coast Guard, making Chief is the career maker.
In the Army and Marine Corps, E7s are fairly common, but E8 and up are rare.
In the Air Force, due to lack of Warrants, E8 and below are common, but making Chief is it.
That being said, if you are Guard or Reserves makes a difference.
In my experiences in the Army and Air Guard, making E6 is almost impossible, where in the Reserves its almost automatic.
I always looked at CWO's as a big deal, they are officers, yet get mad respect from the enlisted. They get all the benefits and none of the BS. I would go back in this very second if I were offered WOC.

Also as has been alluded to above, if you have certain bling you get "big deal" status. When I went from the Army to the Air Force, I had badges and medals that were viewed by my fellow unit members (especially the junior enlisted) as a "big deal". They were commonplace in the unit I had left and I have no idea what the fuss was about.

Bryce7454

Quote from: lordmonar on April 09, 2016, 12:01:30 PM
Quote from: Bryce7454 on April 09, 2016, 06:28:37 AM
When you do something that has contributed to the defense of the nation. Not when you get to wear colorful shapes on your shoulders.
Ehm......everyone who wears the uniform from the lowliest AB at BMTS to the retriing 4 Star AD/NG/RES contributes to the defense of the nation.
I mean like like doing your job well and not flaunting around because you earned a uniform. That's what military members should focus on, doing their job well and. I'm not saying that our men and women in uniform don't generally do that I'm just saying there have been some who seem care more about bragging rights. Not saying they are bad people just that they can make the military look bad.

kwe1009

Quote from: GroundHawg on April 09, 2016, 01:58:35 PM
In the Air Force, due to lack of Warrants, E8 and below are common, but making Chief is it.

E-8's are not that common. Only 2% of the enlisted force is an E-8 and 1% is an E-9. 

Quote from: THRAWN on April 09, 2016, 01:13:06 PM

It depends. There is a big delta between an E9 and a Master Chief and you can tell the difference.

Agreed.  I have known a lot of E-8's and E-9's in my career but unfortunately very few Seniors and Chiefs.

To answer the OP about when you become a big deal in the military, it is very subjective and not necessarily based on rank.  I have worked for people with stars on the collar that I was not impressed with at all. They were just good at playing the political game to get promoted.  On the other hand I have worked for Majors/Lt Cols that I would lay down my life for.

stillamarine

Quote from: Flying Pig on April 09, 2016, 01:03:51 PM
As a Marine Corporal at Kadena AFB, I was a pretty big deal.

I was a Lance Corporal stationed on Kadena at K5 Right. The AF always called us Corporal. One of our actual Corporals would get really pissed off. It didn't help when I showed him the MCO that said you could call a LCpl Corporal. 8)
Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com

PHall

Quote from: stillamarine on April 09, 2016, 02:48:10 PM
Quote from: Flying Pig on April 09, 2016, 01:03:51 PM
As a Marine Corporal at Kadena AFB, I was a pretty big deal.

I was a Lance Corporal stationed on Kadena at K5 Right. The AF always called us Corporal. One of our actual Corporals would get really pissed off. It didn't help when I showed him the MCO that said you could call a LCpl Corporal. 8)

Sounds like your Corporal with the 'tude was having problems making Sergeant. Could it be his attitude? >:D

Spam

What was that joke from M*A*S*H*, where Hawkeye pinned his bars on Radar to get him into the O Club? He's a "Corporal Captain", just like Major General or Lieutenant Colonel!

I've always felt (in that vein) that I am the more Lt than Col, Lt Colonel...

CHeers
Spam

kwe1009

Quote from: Spam on April 09, 2016, 04:44:37 PM
What was that joke from M*A*S*H*, where Hawkeye pinned his bars on Radar to get him into the O Club? He's a "Corporal Captain", just like Major General or Lieutenant Colonel!

I've always felt (in that vein) that I am the more Lt than Col, Lt Colonel...

CHeers
Spam

That was an awesome episode.  I loved that show.

SarDragon

Quote from: Spam on April 09, 2016, 04:44:37 PM
What was that joke from M*A*S*H*, where Hawkeye pinned his bars on Radar to get him into the O Club? He's a "Corporal Captain", just like Major General or Lieutenant Colonel!

I've always felt (in that vein) that I am the more Lt than Col, Lt Colonel...

CHeers
Spam

And let us not forget that Major General used to be Sergeant-Major General, many moons ago. The sergeant part as dropped in the early 18th century.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

MSG Mac

Quote from: PHall on April 09, 2016, 01:56:07 AM
Quote from: MSG Mac on April 09, 2016, 12:46:35 AM
When you get your 20 year letter stating that you are eligible for retirement.

I'll see your 20 Year Letter and raise you a 60th Birthday Letter!

Got that too. Uncle Sam kisses me on the first of every month.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

Tim Day

I remember when I thought an Ensign (Navy O1) was a big deal. Here at the Pentagon, you might sit next to a 2-star (O8) waiting to get a hair cut at the barber shop. 
Tim Day
Lt Col CAP
Prince William Composite Squadron Commander

MHC5096

After I graduated from Quartermaster "A" School in 1989, I had the opportunity to accompany NJROTC cadets from my former high school to a Mini Bootcamp (USMC style) at Parris Island as a chaperone. I may have only been an E-3 at the time, but those USMC recruits at the chow hall sure thought I was big deal. They would scurry out of the way and pop to attention when I went to refill my drink. The Drill Instructors thought it was hilarious.
Mark H. Crary
Lt Col, CAP (1990-Present)
DDC-P, CGAUX (2011-Present)
MSgt, USAF (1995-2011)
QM2, USN (1989-1995)

lordmonar

I took my cadets to tour the Kitty Hawk at Yokusuka. The ratings all thought I was something special with my CAP captains bars!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

AirAux

Don't forget Major Major Major in Catch -22.  My favorite was my Dad that retired as a Major after 23 years, bombardier in England (B-24) and Bombardier/Navigator in Korea (A-26).  We can't forget Gen. Lemay.  Now, as a veteran, I think the Wow factor is due every one that served under fire..  Not so much the Garret Troopers, no matter the rank.  An extra kudos to the seasoned combat Medic!!

Disenchanted

When you can wear the Maroon Beret in the USAF
When you can wear the Special Forces Tab on the left sleeve in the US Army
When you can wear the Ranger Tab on the left sleeve in the US Army
When you wear the Combat Infantry Badge
Rank doesn't mean much without character and integrity.


sardak

QuoteWhen you can wear the Ranger Tab on the left sleeve in the US Army Air Force
went through Ranger school as a security forces Airman, and received the Enlisted Leadership Award from your Ranger class  http://www.buckley.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123470660

Mike

abdsp51

Quote from: sardak on April 21, 2016, 03:59:00 AM
QuoteWhen you can wear the Ranger Tab on the left sleeve in the US Army Air Force
went through Ranger school as a security forces Airman, and received the Enlisted Leadership Award from your Ranger class  http://www.buckley.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123470660

Mike

I know 2 of these guys personally.

Spam

I have a coworker on a project who is set to retire as a CW-5 master aviator after 39 years in the Army and the 160th SOAR (go see Blackhawk Down - this is the Geronimo unit as well). Multiple decorations, USN Test Pilot School graduate, uncounted combat deployments at the sharpest point of the Army's aviation spear, and one of the most humble guys you could meet. Still single... good looking... likes women but modest... must be all those years OCONUS. It makes me humble, working with such people. He is, we all agree, a Big Deal.


My take however is, you become a big deal not via decorations or rank, but by stepping up - whether you are a professional military man or one called up just for the war - you serve. If you cant be a snake eater, serve as the best missile tech you can, best clerk typist, or best mechanic possible. Or, failing that, be the best patriotic American, paying your taxes and shouldering your burden to vote RESPONSIBLY to elect your representatives that will commit these men and women to fight for you, if needs be.



From James Michener's "The Bridges at Toko Ri" (1954 film adaptation);

Lt. Harry Brubaker (Reserve Naval Aviator, shot down and about to die): I'm a lawyer from Denver, Colorado.
Mike Forney: Judas, how'd you wind up in a smelly ditch in Korea?
Lt. Harry Brubaker: I was just asking myself that same question.

and [last lines]

RAdm. George Tarrant: Where do we get such men? They leave this ship and they do their job. Then they must find this speck lost somewhere on the sea. When the find it they have to land on it's pitching deck. Where do we get such men?
Man on loudspeaker: Launch jets!


V/R
Spam


AMENDED:  they also serve, who sit and wait. You are officially a Big Deal in the military if you are a patient, supportive, and committed military spouse, or a kid who waits for their parent to come home (which is sometimes never). That's far, far bigger than any tab, badge, or rating.






SarDragon

Quote from: Spam on April 21, 2016, 05:45:14 AMAMENDED:  they also serve, who sit and wait. You are officially a Big Deal in the military if you are a patient, supportive, and committed military spouse, or a kid who waits for their parent to come home (which is sometimes never). That's far, far bigger than any tab, badge, or rating.

Thank you.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

TheSkyHornet

To Spam's point, one of the first things I learned was to never look down on any member just because they haven't heard those extra stripes or they don't have shiny objects on their uniform. You know nothing about this person--their intelligence, their character, or their goals.

Anyone who strives to be the best but is willing to sacrifice their team to get there can get out of the boat and swim the rest of the way. Each person has a role. It's a unit---unity.

Storm Chaser

All this is true, but I think we're missing the point of the OP's question. He asked specifically about rank and the perception it may have on others.

When a service member walks through the door, unless you know him (or her), all you have is the uniform (and his grade insignia, qualification badges, awards, etc.) to get a glimpse of what this individual has done. It's kind of like the cover of a book. You don't really know if the content is good until you read it, but the cover provides a glimpse of what the book is about. Of course, some books are really good even if their cover don't stand out. But you wouldn't know that unless you or someone else has read it.

Spam

Ah, I see your point.  In that case, my dad (who enlisted in '42, then went Annapolis) gave me some great advice on who to respect and stay on the good side of (i.e. who really is a big deal in personal terms):


1. The paymaster, who can leave you broke.

2. The logistics guys and cooks, who can leave you naked and hungry (or food poisoned)!

3. The yeoman/admin guys, who can cut your orders to some cold, isolated, God forsaken place where you freeze to death.


V/R
Spam

(I'm sure some of you've heard the story of the many guys who were told by their detailers about all the lovely blondes to meet on a rotation to Keflavik, Iceland, "There's One Behind Every Tree" - only to step off the transport and see zero trees on Iceland... got to respect those detailers and admin guys)!


KASSRCrashResearch

Quote from: Eclipse on April 06, 2016, 09:12:29 PM
When you get one of these...



I've met four MoH recipients over the years.  I'm pretty sure that they would all disagree with you.  In fact, I heard one of them flat out state that he hated that people thinks he was somehow important or better than anyone else in the service simply because of his award.  "The only people who get the MoH who should be seen as heroes are the ones who received it posthumously".  That would be the late Senator from Hawaii, Daniel Inouye.

As far as rank goes, I've found that general officers are often the least difficult officers to deal with.  It's the people who are still in a position where they feel the need to "eliminate the competition" who are pains and are fixated on rank. I was stationed at Andrews AFB for a while and dealt with a lot of brass as a result.  The thing I learned was that rank only matters if you're in trouble or if you're insecure about yourself.  That's why a lot of senior officers place far less importance on rank than on what you know, how well you can apply it and whether you can be relied upon. 

Speaking of dealing with brass....I have to mention something funny that happened: I was driving back to my dorm and saw this guy in a flight suit humping a pack along the side of the street in the pouring rain.  I pulled up and offered him a ride which he accepted. He introduced himself by his first name and said that he had come in one of the cargo planes .  He decided to walk to the visiting officers quarters but had been caught by the sudden storm while he was walking.  It seemed like he was having a bad day so as he got out, I popped the trunk and passed him a beer (I had been coming back from the store).  He said thank you and went on his way.

I didn't find out who he was until the next day.  He was the commander of Air Mobility Command and he was pulling a surprise inspection on one of the units that had been reportedly not acting completely above board hence why he had basically tried to come in as low profile as he could.  I found this out when I was called into my squadron commander's office to be given the letter of commendation he had left me for "looking out for a fellow airman".   My commander goes "Care to explain the P.S.?" which was on a sticky note attached to the letter and read "Thank you for the beer".  My response was to burst out laughing and go "Ma'am, I did give him a beer but with all due respect but if you have a problem with that, I suggest that you take it up with the General since it seems he doesn't have a problem with it". 
I have complete faith in the continued absurdity of what ever is going on.

SarDragon

Quote from: Spam on April 21, 2016, 03:23:26 PM
Ah, I see your point.  In that case, my dad (who enlisted in '42, then went Annapolis) gave me some great advice on who to respect and stay on the good side of (i.e. who really is a big deal in personal terms):


1. The paymaster, who can leave you broke.

2. The logistics guys and cooks, who can leave you naked and hungry (or food poisoned)!

3. The yeoman/admin guys, who can cut your orders to some cold, isolated, God forsaken place where you freeze to death.


V/R
Spam

(I'm sure some of you've heard the story of the many guys who were told by their detailers about all the lovely blondes to meet on a rotation to Keflavik, Iceland, "There's One Behind Every Tree" - only to step off the transport and see zero trees on Iceland... got to respect those detailers and admin guys)!

Let us not forget the corpsmen and dental techs.  :o
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

MSG Mac

Quote from: Spam on April 21, 2016, 03:23:26 PM
Ah, I see your point.  In that case, my dad (who enlisted in '42, then went Annapolis) gave me some great advice on who to respect and stay on the good side of (i.e. who really is a big deal in personal terms):


1. The paymaster, who can leave you broke.

2. The logistics guys and cooks, who can leave you naked and hungry (or food poisoned)!

3. The yeoman/admin guys, who can cut your orders to some cold, isolated, God forsaken place where you freeze to death.


V/R
Spam

(I'm sure some of you've heard the story of the many guys who were told by their detailers about all the lovely blondes to meet on a rotation to Keflavik, Iceland, "There's One Behind Every Tree" - only to step off the transport and see zero trees on Iceland... got to respect those detailers and admin guys)!

Left out the medics. Piss them off and you'll lose your shot record and have to redo everything.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

KASSRCrashResearch

Quote from: lordmonar on April 09, 2016, 12:01:30 PM
Quote from: Bryce7454 on April 09, 2016, 06:28:37 AM
When you do something that has contributed to the defense of the nation. Not when you get to wear colorful shapes on your shoulders.
Ehm......everyone who wears the uniform from the lowliest AB at BMTS to the retriing 4 Star AD/NG/RES contributes to the defense of the nation.

I will respectfully disagree with you there in one very specific circumstance.  Now what I am about to say is MY opinion of MYSELF and myself only.  I don't consider myself a veteran because I was never in harm's way during my time in.  I had a cushy job and didn't get within a thousand miles of anyone wishing me harm (unless you count people I would have dealt with even if I hadn't been in the military).  It's the reason why I have no desire to wear my National Defense Medal on my CAP uniform.  I don't consider myself to have earned it. 

My service as a civilian EMS provider and volunteer firefighter to me contributed far more to the defense and well-being of this nation than my job as a respiratory therapist in a backwater military hospital.

Like I said, that assessment doesn't apply to anyone else because it's an internal standard.  If I don't feel that I earned something, even if by definition or regulation I did, I don't want it.
I have complete faith in the continued absurdity of what ever is going on.

Eclipse

Quote from: KASSRCrashResearch on April 22, 2016, 03:44:21 AMI had a cushy job and didn't get within a thousand miles of anyone wishing me harm (unless you count people I would have dealt with even if I hadn't been in the military). 

The military is a framework.  Only ~4% of those in the Air Force are pilots, the rest support the mission in one way or another,
that doesn't make the service "less".

You can't shoot without bullets and beans.

"That Others May Zoom"

KASSRCrashResearch

Quote from: Eclipse on April 22, 2016, 03:51:31 AM
Quote from: KASSRCrashResearch on April 22, 2016, 03:44:21 AMI had a cushy job and didn't get within a thousand miles of anyone wishing me harm (unless you count people I would have dealt with even if I hadn't been in the military). 

The military is a framework.  Only ~4% of those in the Air Force are pilots, the rest support the mission in one way or another,
that doesn't make the service "less".

You can't shoot without bullets and beans.

That's why my assessment only applies to myself.  Anyone else, they're a veteran.  It's weird and I don't expect anyone else to understand but that's how I feel.
I have complete faith in the continued absurdity of what ever is going on.

lordmonar

Quote from: KASSRCrashResearch on April 22, 2016, 03:44:21 AM
Quote from: lordmonar on April 09, 2016, 12:01:30 PM
Quote from: Bryce7454 on April 09, 2016, 06:28:37 AM
When you do something that has contributed to the defense of the nation. Not when you get to wear colorful shapes on your shoulders.
Ehm......everyone who wears the uniform from the lowliest AB at BMTS to the retriing 4 Star AD/NG/RES contributes to the defense of the nation.

I will respectfully disagree with you there in one very specific circumstance.  Now what I am about to say is MY opinion of MYSELF and myself only.  I don't consider myself a veteran because I was never in harm's way during my time in.  I had a cushy job and didn't get within a thousand miles of anyone wishing me harm (unless you count people I would have dealt with even if I hadn't been in the military).  It's the reason why I have no desire to wear my National Defense Medal on my CAP uniform.  I don't consider myself to have earned it. 

My service as a civilian EMS provider and volunteer firefighter to me contributed far more to the defense and well-being of this nation than my job as a respiratory therapist in a backwater military hospital.

Like I said, that assessment doesn't apply to anyone else because it's an internal standard.  If I don't feel that I earned something, even if by definition or regulation I did, I don't want it.
I'm sorry you feel that way.   You are wrong.  But you I guess you are entitled to your opinion.   Every job in the military contributes to National defense.   Not all of them are on the pointy end of the spear.  But with out all the parts of the spear....the pointy end is useless.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

KASSRCrashResearch

Quote from: lordmonar on April 22, 2016, 05:07:14 AM
I'm sorry you feel that way.   You are wrong.  But you I guess you are entitled to your opinion.   Every job in the military contributes to National defense.   Not all of them are on the pointy end of the spear.  But with out all the parts of the spear....the pointy end is useless.
[/quote]

I get your point but do you mind if I posit a related question and use a hypothetical?  For the sake of argument, let's say that I was to be given an award- a commendation medal for example- for something I did.  Everyone around me thinks that I deserve it.  However, the idea of accepting it makes me uncomfortable because others have done far more to earn it than I have.  Is it right for me to violate my ethical standards just because others disagree?  I am not drawing an analogy between myself and him by any stretch of the imagination but there's the famous case of Marine general Smedley Butler who tried to refuse the Medal of Honor for his actions at Veracruz but the medal was sent back to him and he was ordered to wear it. It doesn't diminish what he and his colleagues did.  He just didn't think he earned it.

It's the same concept: I don't lay claim to the title for personal reasons.  It doesn't make me wrong per se in any way that should matter because it's an internal standard that applies to no one else.  It doesn't diminish what I think of someone who did the exact same job as me or anyone else just like I wouldn't think ill of someone who accepted the award in the scenario I posited.  It just makes me really uncomfortable to be called a veteran because there's nothing I did that makes me feel like I deserve such a respected title.
I have complete faith in the continued absurdity of what ever is going on.

lordmonar

Doesn't matter.

Your personal opinion does not matter.

Just like General butler.....your opinion about whether you earned it or not simply just does not matter.

And holding yourself to this "higher standard" is in fact an insult to everyone else who earned it by doing the same thing as you.

You served honorably....you are a veteran.  Period....end of story.  By not accepting the title that earned is an insult to those who served in "cushy back water jobs" just like you did.  By you not thinking you are not deserving of the title is also suggesting that those who served as you did also did not earn it.   Remember that actions sometimes speak louder than words.  You say you don't judge all those other people who served just like you did.....but in fact you are judging them, and you want us to respect you more for refusing the title....and by extension respect them less because they accepted the title.

It's good to be humble.  I get where you are coming from.  Just accept the kudos that you have earned and move on.
PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP

SarDragon

Crash, you joined, for whatever reasons, you showed up every day at your job, you stood duty, and spent extra time away from your friends and family, and you wore the uniform. That, my friend, makes you a veteran.

Myself, I was a draft-induced enlistment. The draft was after my young ass, and I chose the Navy, instead of pushing a rifle around a swamp. I ended up making a career of it, and enjoy those benefits today. Yet, I am no more or no less of a veteran than you. My "going in harm's way" was doing a little flying as aircrew, and a three year tour on an aircraft carrier in peacetime conditions. Makes no difference at all. We are both veterans.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

MSG Mac

Thanks to my retirement I have the privilege of having Walter Reed as my primary care facility. lately I have had to visit the hospital on average of twice a month and I can see what the Physicians, Nurses, X ray techs, and other ancillary services do there.  I appreciate all the services they provide and can see from the number of inpatients with prosthetics (some double amputees) just how valuable the medical services are. Your service in a "backwater hospital as a respiratory therapist" was just as important as anybody else's especially to those who you treated and their families.    Dying in respiratory distress is basically drowning in your own fluids, think of how many people you may have saved from internal drowning.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

Cliff_Chambliss

I look at the shadow box on the wall of my office as I read this thread and think:
How many of those awards/medals did I earn on my own?
How many would not be there had my driver/loader/gunner not been there?  What about the mechanics that kept the beast running?  The cooks, clerks, medics that kept us running.  On the right side of the uniform are the unit awards.  Awards which I wear because there were others, many others with me as I was with them.

I read an interview of a Medal of Honor Awardee and he made a statement that the medal was not his, the medal belonged to his crew and many others around him that he was only the custodian.  If you think about it, this is true of almost every award, certificate, medal, ribbon.    No Man Is An Island.
11th Armored Cavalry Regiment
2d Armored Cavalry Regiment
3d Infantry Division
504th BattleField Surveillance Brigade

ARMY:  Because even the Marines need heros.    
CAVALRY:  If it were easy it would be called infantry.

goblin

Quote from: Eclipse on April 22, 2016, 03:51:31 AM
Quote from: KASSRCrashResearch on April 22, 2016, 03:44:21 AMI had a cushy job and didn't get within a thousand miles of anyone wishing me harm (unless you count people I would have dealt with even if I hadn't been in the military). 

The military is a framework.  Only ~4% of those in the Air Force are pilots, the rest support the mission in one way or another,
that doesn't make the service "less".

You can't shoot without bullets and beans.

But you can shoot without tops in blue

foo

This is an interesting dialog. My grandfather was a combat-wounded Army vet in Europe during WWII. His son (my Dad) enlisted in the USAF during the cold war. Dad served stateside and the tip of his "spear" was sharpened graphite. Yet I think he is no less proud of his service than he is of his father's, and I have deepest admiration for them both for what they did.

As do I for all of you who served honorably in any capacity.

grunt82abn

Quote from: Cliff_Chambliss on April 22, 2016, 01:13:41 PM
I look at the shadow box on the wall of my office as I read this thread and think:
How many of those awards/medals did I earn on my own?
How many would not be there had my driver/loader/gunner not been there?  What about the mechanics that kept the beast running?  The cooks, clerks, medics that kept us running.  On the right side of the uniform are the unit awards.  Awards which I wear because there were others, many others with me as I was with them.

I read an interview of a Medal of Honor Awardee and he made a statement that the medal was not his, the medal belonged to his crew and many others around him that he was only the custodian.  If you think about it, this is true of almost every award, certificate, medal, ribbon.    No Man Is An Island.

Exactly!!! Everyone is a big deal in the service, we can't accomplish anything without the team.
Sean Riley, TSGT
US Army 1987 to 1994, WIARNG 1994 to 2008
DoD Firefighter Paramedic 2000 to Present

MSG Mac

The late Field Marshal Viscount Slim used to make sure that everyone in his command recognized the contributions of the men and women in the rear-and that the men in the rear knew the hardships of those in the field. He too worked in a backwater forgotten command with the task of regaining Singapore and the Malay Peninsula.
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

KASSRCrashResearch

Quote from: SarDragon on April 22, 2016, 07:04:09 AM
Crash, you joined, for whatever reasons, you showed up every day at your job, you stood duty, and spent extra time away from your friends and family, and you wore the uniform. That, my friend, makes you a veteran.

Myself, I was a draft-induced enlistment. The draft was after my young ass, and I chose the Navy, instead of pushing a rifle around a swamp. I ended up making a career of it, and enjoy those benefits today. Yet, I am no more or no less of a veteran than you. My "going in harm's way" was doing a little flying as aircrew, and a three year tour on an aircraft carrier in peacetime conditions. Makes no difference at all. We are both veterans.

Fair enough guys.  I do appreciate a deserved kick in the *** even if I am on the receiving end.
I have complete faith in the continued absurdity of what ever is going on.

KASSRCrashResearch

Quote from: MSG Mac on April 22, 2016, 07:48:02 AM
Thanks to my retirement I have the privilege of having Walter Reed as my primary care facility. lately I have had to visit the hospital on average of twice a month and I can see what the Physicians, Nurses, X ray techs, and other ancillary services do there.  I appreciate all the services they provide and can see from the number of inpatients with prosthetics (some double amputees) just how valuable the medical services are. Your service in a "backwater hospital as a respiratory therapist" was just as important as anybody else's especially to those who you treated and their families.    Dying in respiratory distress is basically drowning in your own fluids, think of how many people you may have saved from internal drowning.

Probably far more than I have saved under other circumstances.  I, at times, just get really uncomfortable being given attention for things I do or did.   Thanks. :)
I have complete faith in the continued absurdity of what ever is going on.

Johnny Yuma

Officers: When they make command at SOCOM or one of the Chiefs of Staff.

Enlisted: When they give intel to wikileaks or desert their unit downrange to join the other side as a "POW"
"And Saint Attila raised the Holy Hand Grenade up on high saying, "Oh Lord, Bless us this Holy Hand Grenade, and with it smash our enemies to tiny bits. And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs, and stoats, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and lima bean-"

" Skip a bit, brother."

"And then the Lord spake, saying: "First, shalt thou take out the holy pin. Then shalt thou count to three. No more, no less. "Three" shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the counting shall be three. "Four" shalt thou not count, and neither count thou two, execpting that thou then goest on to three. Five is RIGHT OUT. Once the number three, being the third number be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade to-wards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuffit. Amen."

Armaments Chapter One, verses nine through twenty-seven:

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Johnny Yuma on May 01, 2016, 04:30:56 PM
Officers: When they make command at SOCOM or one of the Chiefs of Staff.

Enlisted: When they give intel to wikileaks or desert their unit downrange to join the other side as a "POW"

You forgot the ARCOM for stopping Facebook shenanigans