Hello and a question...

[Майор Хаткевич]

<snip>
How do you enforce it?

During my tenure as a Region Chaplain...as the Director of the Chaplain Corps Region Staff College, a Protocol Officer was appointed for the event.  Weeks prior the Uniform Manual was sent in addition to the Participants Handbook.   Those attending were notified weeks in advance of what uniforms were to be worn during the event.   Not only were they notified, but also advised that the first morning of the event an inspection would be conducted.   The Protocol Officer presented a briefing (which included uniform wear) the evening before the first full day of classes and would be the inspecting officer.  If they did not meet the standards for wearing the USAF-Style uniform/service dress, they would need to return to their room and change into the gray-whites/blazer combo (polo/grays were not approved for the CCRSC).  It was either "fish or cut bait".   The publications made it clear that even if they wore the uniform at the squadron meetings -- and were not meeting the regs on h/w or grooming -- that would not be a "nod, nod, wink, wink" at CCRSC.  The inspection process worked well for us.   And there is also the adhering to Core Values "look test" -- "Do I look professional in my appearance?"  That involves personal accountability.     On a side note, I wore both the USAF-Style and gray-whites throughout the event.

What was the percentage of those who needed to change uniforms, if any? Hopefully, chaplains would be a little easier to herd than the average group of cats, in this regard. With one notable exception that I think we've beaten up quite well here, chaplains tend to be a little more forward leaning with respect to their uniforms. They are, for the most part, more used to presenting themselves in a professional manner.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=18201.20

[THRAWN]

<snip>
How do you enforce it?

During my tenure as a Region Chaplain...as the Director of the Chaplain Corps Region Staff College, a Protocol Officer was appointed for the event.  Weeks prior the Uniform Manual was sent in addition to the Participants Handbook.   Those attending were notified weeks in advance of what uniforms were to be worn during the event.   Not only were they notified, but also advised that the first morning of the event an inspection would be conducted.   The Protocol Officer presented a briefing (which included uniform wear) the evening before the first full day of classes and would be the inspecting officer.  If they did not meet the standards for wearing the USAF-Style uniform/service dress, they would need to return to their room and change into the gray-whites/blazer combo (polo/grays were not approved for the CCRSC).  It was either "fish or cut bait".   The publications made it clear that even if they wore the uniform at the squadron meetings -- and were not meeting the regs on h/w or grooming -- that would not be a "nod, nod, wink, wink" at CCRSC.  The inspection process worked well for us.   And there is also the adhering to Core Values "look test" -- "Do I look professional in my appearance?"  That involves personal accountability.     On a side note, I wore both the USAF-Style and gray-whites throughout the event.

What was the percentage of those who needed to change uniforms, if any? Hopefully, chaplains would be a little easier to herd than the average group of cats, in this regard. With one notable exception that I think we've beaten up quite well here, chaplains tend to be a little more forward leaning with respect to their uniforms. They are, for the most part, more used to presenting themselves in a professional manner.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=18201.20

And that is the "one notable exception that I think we've beaten up quite well here" that I mentioned. And now I will be sick again, thank you...

[Майор Хаткевич]

Hey, I've seen chaplains make the same uniform mistakes as the rest of us. They are only human after all.

[Chappie]

<snip>
How do you enforce it?

During my tenure as a Region Chaplain...as the Director of the Chaplain Corps Region Staff College, a Protocol Officer was appointed for the event.  Weeks prior the Uniform Manual was sent in addition to the Participants Handbook.   Those attending were notified weeks in advance of what uniforms were to be worn during the event.   Not only were they notified, but also advised that the first morning of the event an inspection would be conducted.   The Protocol Officer presented a briefing (which included uniform wear) the evening before the first full day of classes and would be the inspecting officer.  If they did not meet the standards for wearing the USAF-Style uniform/service dress, they would need to return to their room and change into the gray-whites/blazer combo (polo/grays were not approved for the CCRSC).  It was either "fish or cut bait".   The publications made it clear that even if they wore the uniform at the squadron meetings -- and were not meeting the regs on h/w or grooming -- that would not be a "nod, nod, wink, wink" at CCRSC.  The inspection process worked well for us.   And there is also the adhering to Core Values "look test" -- "Do I look professional in my appearance?"  That involves personal accountability.     On a side note, I wore both the USAF-Style and gray-whites throughout the event.

What was the percentage of those who needed to change uniforms, if any? Hopefully, chaplains would be a little easier to herd than the average group of cats, in this regard. With one notable exception that I think we've beaten up quite well here, chaplains tend to be a little more forward leaning with respect to their uniforms. They are, for the most part, more used to presenting themselves in a professional manner.

Thrawn...it really hasn't been much of an issue since this practice/policy of publishing the expectations/consequences ahead of time has been in place.  They have been real good at "self-policing" since they know we mean business.  The previous Region Chaplain put the inspection process into place.  More in-time.  Then we started publishing way in advance so no one would be blind-sided or not prepared.  However, there was one chaplain a few years ago, who had actually had two belts sewn together, leave the event rather than change into the appropriate uniform -- his choice, not yours.  He had received the publications regarding the proper uniform wear ahead of time.  He also refused to attend any more CCRSCs because of our "strict" uniform policy (just following the regs...that's all).  His loss.  His justification: "They let me wear this uniform at my squadron meetings".

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

They are, for the most part, more used to presenting themselves in a professional manner.

Can Chaplains wear their clerical collar if their denomination (Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, etc) calls for them to, under their service dress?  I know Jewish Chaplains can wear a Yarmulke (sp?).

I've seen it in some other nations' forces, but not in the USAF.


Revd (Group Captain) Jonathan PM Chaffey QHC MA BA RAF

[Chappie]

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=18201.20
[/quote]

I have it on good authority that steps have been taken so that this will not occur again.

[Chappie]

They are, for the most part, more used to presenting themselves in a professional manner.

Can Chaplains wear their clerical collar if their denomination (Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Episcopalian, etc) calls for them to, under their service dress?  I know Jewish Chaplains can wear a Yarmulke (sp?).

I've seen it in some other nations' forces, but not in the USAF.


Revd (Group Captain) Jonathan PM Chaffey QHC MA BA RAF

The answer is no...and that is in all branches.   The headwear can be worn under the flight/service cap but the clerical collar cannot be wore with the service dress.  I saw it tried once by a chaplain in our region....emphasis on once -- he had his blue shirt tailored to be clerical (justification...the regs have the word "tab" and this is a clerical tab).  It was corrected by the "then" National Staff Chaplain - an USAF active-duty chaplain assigned to CAP-USAF at NHQ (had an active duty chaplain assigned to NHQ prior to 2001 -- then a corporate director until 2005/2006 -- now the volunteer Chief of the Chaplain Corps oversees everything).    He had to buy a new shirt to continue attending the CCRSC.

[Pulsar]

Again, I appreciate the comments, however, I didn't post this as an extension of the uniform thread, which seems to be the direction this has taken.  I understand that there are regs for proper wear of the service dress, and I agree that those regs should be followed.   I guess to be right to the point, as innocent as it may seem to some, I just think it's a little harsh to refer to folks willing to put in their time and effort to an organization, regardless of their physical appearance shouldn't be refereed to by a term that seems derogatory...

Just my opinion...

You are exactly correct. There is a certain "breed" of CAP that shows up mostly on CAPtalk. and, yes, most topics some how get twisted into a uniform thread or something totally opposite than the original.

[Garibaldi]

Again, I appreciate the comments, however, I didn't post this as an extension of the uniform thread, which seems to be the direction this has taken.  I understand that there are regs for proper wear of the service dress, and I agree that those regs should be followed.   I guess to be right to the point, as innocent as it may seem to some, I just think it's a little harsh to refer to folks willing to put in their time and effort to an organization, regardless of their physical appearance shouldn't be refereed to by a term that seems derogatory...

Just my opinion...

You are exactly correct. There is a certain "breed" of CAP that shows up mostly on CAPtalk. and, yes, most topics some how get twisted into a uniform thread or something totally opposite than the original.

So do you know when we're getting ABUs? 

[THRAWN]

Hey, I've seen chaplains make the same uniform mistakes as the rest of us. They are only human after all.

Agreed, but they do seem to be a little more receptive to correction, in general.

[Fortunateson]

Again, I appreciate the comments, however, I didn't post this as an extension of the uniform thread, which seems to be the direction this has taken.  I understand that there are regs for proper wear of the service dress, and I agree that those regs should be followed.   I guess to be right to the point, as innocent as it may seem to some, I just think it's a little harsh to refer to folks willing to put in their time and effort to an organization, regardless of their physical appearance shouldn't be refereed to by a term that seems derogatory...

Just my opinion...

Again, not to be harsh, but you're missing the point. The ONLY time this term comes up is during uniform issues. Which is...of course where this topic went after you started it. As to the term itself, how would you describe it? "Larger and Hairier"? "Big boned and awesome-bearded"? No matter how you spin it, unless the person wears it by choice, the REASON for their wear is due to not meeting H/W standards, or refusing/being unable/unwilling to shave to be within standards or maintain a relatively short haircut, with regular fixers.


"Fat and Fuzzies" makes that whole sentence easier to say, while avoiding the PC/Long winded BS.


-From a Fat but only occasionally fuzzy.

I'm far from PC, but I'd like to think that someone could do better than "fat and fuzzies" like maybe "non comps"... And that only took me a few minutes, I imagine I could do better if I spent more time on it...

[Panache]

As to the term itself, how would you describe it? "Larger and Hairier"? "Big boned and awesome-bearded"?

I prefer "Gravity-Enhanced-American", thank you very much.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Heavies and Hairies? Non-comps? Really? That sounds that much better to you?

[a2capt]

If you've got to get uniform parts custom assembled .. that should be a clue. Never mind that MCSS has those sizes .. but having to assemble your own because they don't?

Umm.. yeah.

[SarDragon]

Non comp - a legal/medical term, short for "non compos mentis", from the Latin, meaning "not of sound mind". I prefer fuzzy as a descriptive term.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Although some civilians may argue that anyone that joins an organization like ours for no pay is non compos mantis...

[Майор Хаткевич]

You sir, owe me a new cup of coffee and a few paper towels.

[EMT-83]

Non-compliant = off his meds again.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

If you've got to get uniform parts custom assembled .. that should be a clue. Never mind that MCSS has those sizes .. but having to assemble your own because they don't?

It still boggles me that MCSS has those sizes when they're not in regs.

[lordmonar]

If you've got to get uniform parts custom assembled .. that should be a clue. Never mind that MCSS has those sizes .. but having to assemble your own because they don't?

It still boggles me that MCSS has those sizes when they're not in regs.

Well...first USAF does not have a height/weight restriction anymore.......they have a PT test that incorporates BMI.   Second....even if a USAF member is failing his PT standards there may be medical exceptions or other factors that would make it a non-factor for him.  Third....even if a USAF member is on the bad-boy list and is on his/her way out of the service.....they still have to wear a uniform.....who wants to show up for the Article 15 or separation hearing in an ill-fitting uniform?