2012 civil air patrol national conference

[Robb Ottenhoff]

I also do not have a bachelor’s degree at 45 years old, and while having been successful in creating and running several businesses, I do understand, and even agree with, the logic behind the bachelor’s degree requirement for the national commander.  While I don't 'like' it personally, if I think about the larger picture, it does make since.  Here's why:

I understand and agree that many, many people walk out of formal training program with titles like; BA, BS, MBA, PhD, Level V, etc, and still don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.   But, at the end of the day (for me) it comes down to a simple question: Would I want a brand new senior member to be able to put on a pair of major's gold oak leaves without completing their Level III training or spending a minimum of 6 years in service?   It's not to say that just completing a CAP Level III plus 6 years of service will guarantee a strong "Major," but it is a best practice that we have established to give us a base line to know that they are at least ready to be 'trained' in their new "Major" responsibilities.

A bachelor’s degree then just occurs to me as another 'CAP Level' of training, albeit external.  For me it occurs as a challenge -- finish my own bachelor’s degree.  And isn't that one of the reasons to be a member of the Civil Air Patrol, to expand ourselves and what we are capable of achieving?

And finally, for the record, I still don't 'like' it.  Almost as much as I don't like the idea of going back to school at 45 years old. But if I am to be a leader and example for our cadets and others, then I'm going to have to confront and overcome stuff that I don't like from time to time.


ps: Today (8/28/12) is the day that I expect that National HQ will be processing my application for rejoining as a Senior Member (previous SM in 1988), so on this day of my (re)birth as a newly minted SMWOR I already find myself reaching for the 'Stars.'   

With respect and utter enthusiasm for what's next,

Robb

[Rick-DEL]

I wouldn't expect anything regarding the switch to ABU's. I was at the conference this past Saturday with my son for Cadet Day. He told me that one of the lined up guest speakers asked them "who wants to wear the ABU's?". Then, he mentioned to them not expect it to happen, there were some major hurdles for that to happen.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I always thought Clausewitz said that, but the interwebs suggest Von Moltke, Prussian Chief of Staff for Bismark.

It was Helmuth von Moltke the Elder.

My mistake.

And I do not see where people are reading "great, we're getting ABU's!" into Sir Ned's statement.

He said a request has been made, and now it's in the "hurry up and wait" stage.

WRT the baccalaureate requirement...when I joined CAP I was surprised to see that virtually everyone was an officer.  I thought it would be more like the Real Military, where to get a commission you have to have a bachelor's (I think certain WO career fields only require an associate's, but I could be wrong on that).  So I'm really not surprised to see this being made a requirement for NatCC.

[KirkF22]

When the NB minutes are released, how do I find them?

[jhsmith400]

On the CAP eservices page over on the left side.  Sometimes some of the minutes there are a bit of a confusing read, ask me how I know.

[KirkF22]

How do you know?

[jhsmith400]

Had to start a thread on this very page just to ask wth(heck, to be pc).  Due to an odd wording of something relating to white shirts.

[flyboy53]

I also do not have a bachelor's degree at 45 years old, and while having been successful in creating and running several businesses, I do understand, and even agree with, the logic behind the bachelor's degree requirement for the national commander.  While I don't 'like' it personally, if I think about the larger picture, it does make since.  Here's why:

I understand and agree that many, many people walk out of formal training program with titles like; BA, BS, MBA, PhD, Level V, etc, and still don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.   But, at the end of the day (for me) it comes down to a simple question: Would I want a brand new senior member to be able to put on a pair of major's gold oak leaves without completing their Level III training or spending a minimum of 6 years in service?   It's not to say that just completing a CAP Level III plus 6 years of service will guarantee a strong "Major," but it is a best practice that we have established to give us a base line to know that they are at least ready to be 'trained' in their new "Major" responsibilities.

A bachelor's degree then just occurs to me as another 'CAP Level' of training, albeit external.  For me it occurs as a challenge -- finish my own bachelor's degree.  And isn't that one of the reasons to be a member of the Civil Air Patrol, to expand ourselves and what we are capable of achieving?

And finally, for the record, I still don't 'like' it.  Almost as much as I don't like the idea of going back to school at 45 years old. But if I am to be a leader and example for our cadets and others, then I'm going to have to confront and overcome stuff that I don't like from time to time.


ps: Today (8/28/12) is the day that I expect that National HQ will be processing my application for rejoining as a Senior Member (previous SM in 1988), so on this day of my (re)birth as a newly minted SMWOR I already find myself reaching for the 'Stars.'   

With respect and utter enthusiasm for what's next,

Robb

Is it really a bachelor's or will it be a bachelor's equivalency. Either way, I see that education requirement as a good thing and it has nothing to do with student loans, given the number of courses out there that give college credit upon completion.

[SarDragon]

On the CAP eservices page over on the left side.  Sometimes some of the minutes there are a bit of a confusing read, ask me how I know.

How do you know?

Google "rhetorical question".

[denverpilot]

Is it really a bachelor's or will it be a bachelor's equivalency. Either way, I see that education requirement as a good thing and it has nothing to do with student loans, given the number of courses out there that give college credit upon completion.

Why specifically do you see it as a good thing? Have you noted any specific traits of leadership or skillset which are never found in non-degree-holding candidates, which can be gained in no other way?

[flyboy53]

Is it really a bachelor's or will it be a bachelor's equivalency. Either way, I see that education requirement as a good thing and it has nothing to do with student loans, given the number of courses out there that give college credit upon completion.

Why specifically do you see it as a good thing? Have you noted any specific traits of leadership or skillset which are never found in non-degree-holding candidates, which can be gained in no other way?

Agreed, but setting an education requirement ramps up the level of professionalism necessary for someone to command an organization such as this, eliminates a lot of the politics that resulted in a few previous leadership embarassments, and starts us in a different direction.

Establishing a educational criteria for a national commander doesn't mean that sheepskin makes him a better leader, it becomes an indication of that individual's capabilities and experience, and that's why I asked if it was a degree or the equiviant of 120 semester hours.

After all, do we want quality in a leader or more backroom politics.

[Garibaldi]

that's why I asked if it was a degree or the equiviant of 120 semester hours.

I have 125 semester hours but no bachelor's.

[KirkF22]

On the CAP eservices page over on the left side.  Sometimes some of the minutes there are a bit of a confusing read, ask me how I know.

How do you know?

Google "rhetorical question".

Must not have been rhetorical if he answered it. Thank You very much.

[Garibaldi]

On the CAP eservices page over on the left side.  Sometimes some of the minutes there are a bit of a confusing read, ask me how I know.

How do you know?

Google "rhetorical question".

Must not have been rhetorical if he answered it. Thank You very much.

We didn't study those in school.

[KirkF22]

On the CAP eservices page over on the left side.  Sometimes some of the minutes there are a bit of a confusing read, ask me how I know.

How do you know?

Google "rhetorical question".

Must not have been rhetorical if he answered it. Thank You very much.

We didn't study those in school.

Haha I did, but it wasn't retorical if he answered it. SarDragon Google "rhetorical question".

[SarDragon]

Way ahead of you.

I think it was intended as such when he posted it, but was polite enough to respond when asked.

Please review my sig, and keep in mind that you aren't dealing with any kind of n00b here.

[KirkF22]

Way ahead of you.

I think it was intended as such when he posted it, but was polite enough to respond when asked.

Please review my sig, and keep in mind that you aren't dealing with any kind of n00b here.

Maybe that is the case. But when you posted it was after his answer to his so called "rhetorical question". And I "reviewed" your sig.

[SarDragon]

So let it go and drive on.

[Garibaldi]

Looks like they put all the stuff for the NB meeting online:

http://www.capmembers.com/events/cap_annual_conference/2011-learning-labs-louisville-kentucky/

And skimming over the ppt for the NUC...don't hold your breath on ABUs or any major uniform change til winter 2013 at least.

[Eclipse]

Looks like they put all the stuff for the NB meeting online:

http://www.capmembers.com/events/cap_annual_conference/2011-learning-labs-louisville-kentucky/

And skimming over the ppt for the NUC...don't hold your breath on ABUs or any major uniform change til winter 2013 at least.

Despite the text in the link, those are the correct briefings.