Dec 2011 BoG Meeting

[FW]

Cyborg, It is a responsibility of CAP to develop the nations' youth through our cadet programs.  It is not the responsibility of CAP to recruit "warm bodies through the gates of Lackand" however, if it helps the military with recruiting, I have no problem with it. 

We all know the stated purposes of Civil Air Patrol.  IMHO; for us to thrive not mearly survive, we need to get our collective heads screwed on correctly and, have the resources to make it happen.  The BoG must deal with this.  The members need to be on board with these policies and, be motivated to carry them out. 

The basic fact of life; we don't do anything unless we want to.  No one forces us to obey.  No one wishes to be "told to salute" if there is no reason to be part of the team.  CAP isn't an ant colony.  It is a benifical organization for the membership; as well as the communities we serve.

[Eclipse]

No one wishes to be "told to salute"

I'd love to be "told to salute", because it means someone is actually paying some attention to the details...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Cyborg, It is a responsibility of CAP to develop the nations' youth through our cadet programs. 

It is a responsibility, sir, not the raison d'etre.

It is not the responsibility of CAP to recruit "warm bodies through the gates of Lackand" however, if it helps the military with recruiting, I have no problem with it. 

I don't have a problem with it either.  I passed through those gates long ago, though I was never a cadet.  But, as I have said, I have met so many AF people who only look at us as cadets, cadets, cadets.

We all know the stated purposes of Civil Air Patrol. 

Yes, sir, I do.

Aerospace Education
Emergency Services
Cadet Programmes

Some may disagree with this.  There are those on this board who would like us to be "all ES, all the time."  I haven't run into as many AE zealots.  I have run into both CAP and AF people who are "cadets only."  In fact, my first squadron CC staffing a CAP booth at an airshow I attended some 18 years ago told me as much.  Direct quote: "Our adult members are there mostly to serve as counsellors to our cadets."  It's a good thing I'm nosey, and even though I'm not from Missouri, you have to show me, else I probably wouldn't have bothered to go to a unit meeting.

There are organisations in other countries who are very much cadets-only:

Royal Canadian Air Cadets, http://www.cadets.ca/air/home-accueil.aspx
Australian Air Force Cadets, http://www.aafc.org.au/
UK Air Training Corps, http://www.raf.mod.uk/aircadets/
NZ Air Training Corps, http://www.airtrainingcorpsnz.org.nz/

All of which, incidentally, have much closer relations with their sponsoring Services (RCAF, RAAF, RAF, RNZAF) than we do, and whose "senior members" are a special class of paid reservists.

However, we are not them, as much as I admire what they do for their young people and their sponsoring Services.

IMHO; for us to thrive not mearly survive, we need to get our collective heads screwed on correctly and, have the resources to make it happen.  The BoG must deal with this.  The members need to be on board with these policies and, be motivated to carry them out. 

The basic fact of life; we don't do anything unless we want to.  No one forces us to obey.  No one wishes to be "told to salute" if there is no reason to be part of the team.  CAP isn't an ant colony.  It is a benifical organization for the membership; as well as the communities we serve.

If that's a roundabout way of saying that we need to be a cadets-only, or cadet-primary organisation with the other two functions being very much ancillary, then I respectfully disagree.

[BillB]

Seems like CAP is floundering without direction. To many ES people are still mired in the 121.5 ELT search mindset. I dfoubt there are very many Squadrons that have started Disaster Relief operations training which appears tobe the best use of CAP ES resources.
What can the average unit accomplish in external Aerospace Education? a very limited field. The largest part of AE is internal to the cadet program.
Since October 1942, the CAP cadet program has been an avenue to the military. That's what it was started as, and to this day continues to be. The major portion of USAF funding does not go to ES and flying. It goes to support the cadet program.

[davidsinn]

The major portion of USAF funding does not go to ES and flying. It goes to support the cadet program.

Not hardly. They pay for several new aircraft every year. The ES training budget is immense compared to anything that goes to CP.

[RiverAux]

I dfoubt there are very many Squadrons that have started Disaster Relief operations training which appears tobe the best use of CAP ES resources.

Possibly because CAP does not have any doctrine for what we should be doing following disasters other than airborne photography. 

[Walkman]

I've read through this whole thread. I'm not sure where I fall in on my opinion yet, I've never done anything above the small squadron level, so I'm not really familiar with the workings of the BoG, etc. I filled out the survey to the best of my ability and I'm holding out hope that will wnd up improving as a result.

However, I want to give a thumbs up to NCRBlues & lormonar. In the online world, having a logical, level-headed debate and "agreeing to disagree" is almost unheard of.

[SARDOC]

I dfoubt there are very many Squadrons that have started Disaster Relief operations training which appears tobe the best use of CAP ES resources.

I know a few squadrons here lately that have coordinated with their local Emergency Management Agency and created a CERT team...it's not the end all be all but it's a good start.

[ZigZag911]

Col. Weiss' approach makes a lot of sense; I would modify it slightly:

1) National CC = CEO (think college president)
2) Exec Dir = COO (like the dean)
3) BOG = board of trustees --they "own' the organization, in the sense of having final say, principal fiduciary responsibility...should be the ones to select national commander, perhaps from a list of candidates provided from CAP volunteers
4) NEC serves as commander's "cabinet"
5) NB goes away; wing commanders actually stay home and run their wings!

[RADIOMAN015]

Well at least we can give credit to the BOG that they recognized their shortcomings and decided to get an independent external consulting firm to provide them with some additional alternatives :clap:

HOWEVER, I've got to admit that at least today while attending and supporting, as PAO, our local "Wreaths Across America" ceremony, watching our cadet color guard team & wreath presenters in service dress uniform was terrific and all these organization issues wasn't a topic on anyone's mind.   Hopefully anything that changes our organization will not have a negative affect on squadrons.  That is really where the relevant activities are taking place.  Everything above the squadron level needs to be geared at supporting those units and hopefully not adding more administrative mumbo jumbo.
RM           

[FW]

IMHO; for us to thrive not mearly survive, we need to get our collective heads screwed on correctly and, have the resources to make it happen.  The BoG must deal with this.  The members need to be on board with these policies and, be motivated to carry them out. 

The basic fact of life; we don't do anything unless we want to.  No one forces us to obey.  No one wishes to be "told to salute" if there is no reason to be part of the team.  CAP isn't an ant colony.  It is a benifical organization for the membership; as well as the communities we serve.

If that's a roundabout way of saying that we need to be a cadets-only, or cadet-primary organisation with the other two functions being very much ancillary, then I respectfully disagree.

It is direct way of saying we need to be all on the same page.  However CAP governs itself, the membership must be engaged and motivated to perform or. we still end with the same results.

[lordmonar]

I've read through this whole thread. I'm not sure where I fall in on my opinion yet, I've never done anything above the small squadron level, so I'm not really familiar with the workings of the BoG, etc. I filled out the survey to the best of my ability and I'm holding out hope that will wnd up improving as a result.

However, I want to give a thumbs up to NCRBlues & lormonar. In the online world, having a logical, level-headed debate and "agreeing to disagree" is almost unheard of.

Well....I wanted to say "Jane you ignorant slut.." but someon already used that. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

It is direct way of saying we need to be all on the same page.  However CAP governs itself, the membership must be engaged and motivated to perform or. we still end with the same results.

Sir, I must still be picking you up wrong.

Are you saying that "to be all on the same page," we must centre our motivation on CP?

[FW]

^Yep, you're not yet getting me. "To be on the same page" means for the leadership to be in sync with the needs and wants of the membership in creating a better Civil Air Patrol.  Cadet Programs is part of the equation however, it was not the focus of my thoughts. 

[NCRblues]

Oh Mr. Ned dear sir...

It has been over a month since the governance report was received. Has the BOG set a date to release the information and study yet? Just trying to stay on top of this...   

[bosshawk]

Probably right after the next BoG meeting: whenever that may be.  Might be advisable to sit tight and wait.

[NCRblues]

Probably right after the next BoG meeting: whenever that may be.  Might be advisable to sit tight and wait.

Ned said that a committee was formed to look at when to send this information out. He even said the sooner the better with the NB meeting coming up. Sitting tight and waiting tends to let our "leaders" "forget" about the promise to be open with the people that REALLY matter...you know, us, the CAP members who make this thing tick.

So, my question still stands, have they set a date yet Ned?

[PHall]

Probably right after the next BoG meeting: whenever that may be.  Might be advisable to sit tight and wait.

Ned said that a committee was formed to look at when to send this information out. He even said the sooner the better with the NB meeting coming up. Sitting tight and waiting tends to let our "leaders" "forget" about the promise to be open with the people that REALLY matter...you know, us, the CAP members who make this thing tick.

So, my question still stands, have they set a date yet Ned?

So what exactly is your urgent need to see this report, right now? Are you a person who can make changes in how CAP is run at the National Level?
To put it simply, what is your "need to know" that can't wait a few months?

[NCRblues]

Probably right after the next BoG meeting: whenever that may be.  Might be advisable to sit tight and wait.

Ned said that a committee was formed to look at when to send this information out. He even said the sooner the better with the NB meeting coming up. Sitting tight and waiting tends to let our "leaders" "forget" about the promise to be open with the people that REALLY matter...you know, us, the CAP members who make this thing tick.

So, my question still stands, have they set a date yet Ned?

So what exactly is your urgent need to see this report, right now? Are you a person who can make changes in how CAP is run at the National Level?
To put it simply, what is your "need to know" that can't wait a few months?

Even Ned says that the BOG needs to get it out asap to the members. Money from our dues and tax money was used for this. We, as members, have a right to know. This should not be hidden behind closed doors. It needs to be open and accountable. Kind of like Obama care... "we have to pass it to find out what's in it" <-- bad for the country...same thing...bad for CAP.

[lordmonar]

This is the broken record again.

Okay....we get it...you want to know....so do I.

But really.....berating Ned......the one guy on the BoG who actually gives us some information on this board.

You are beggining to sound like a six year old...you know that right?