Benefits of CAP Moving from Air University to Air National Guard

[RiverAux]

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/01/TNSGuardempower070130/

[Gunner C]

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/01/TNSGuardempower070130/

I was reading through this and found it interesting.  First, I believe the NEC has a committee that is exploring closer ties with NGB and the state TAGs.  I don't know what the state of that is nor do I know if the intent is to take us out from under AU.

I also know that there are several TAGs that are actively trying to get closer ties with CAP.  They see us as a logical force mulitiplier, especially when their forces are deployed out of the state.  There is much to gain with closer ties with the Guard.

[SAR-EMT1]

So I was wondering what the exact relationship is between the state Guards and CAP wings. AE: does Colorado or Iowa have a NG Officer Liason or a CAP member on the TAG staff or what?

Second question (sideline) Why dont we wear the AU command patch on our Flightsuits?

[Cecil DP]

Evidently there was a big fight yesterday in the committee studying Guard and Reserve issues, partly over making the head of the NGB a 4-star member of the Joint Chiefs.  The bigger issue, and the one applicable to this discussion, was making the National Guard Bureau entirely separate from the Army and the Air Force.  This didn't seem to have a lot of support, but if it were to happen it would eliminate whatever few advantages there are now to having CAP under the NGB as opposed to some part of the AF. 

My understanding was that the proposal to make the NG Director a 4 star and a seat on the JCS was already set in stone and will take effect with the New Defense Bill goes into effect.

[wingnut]

CAWG has moved on to a Air National Guard Base, they are wonderful people, giving CAWG all the room they need, two buildings. It is a smart move for CAP to become more involved with the Guard. I sincerely believe that CAP as it is now being managed, a State by State run organization. The AFRCC calls on Air Guard Search and Rescue aircraft all the time, so whats the difference, the Guard Bills the AFRCC for what they do, everyone bills each other for what they do, its how they keep track of what is going on.

I guess my point is that John is right, CAP is more a part of the State Guard than active duty Air Force. But !! if you had paid attention to the Navy times article, its all about control. The truth is the DOD has spent so much money on very expensive useless weapon systems, that when they needed "Boots" they sucked up the Guard, yet they treat the Guard poorly. I believe that most of NORAD is Air Guard Units on 24-7 alerts, so whats the difference?  Civil Air Patrol Air Crews on
2-4 hour  availability (At least thats the plan)

[JohnKachenmeister]

So I was wondering what the exact relationship is between the state Guards and CAP wings. AE: does Colorado or Iowa have a NG Officer Liason or a CAP member on the TAG staff or what?

Second question (sideline) Why dont we wear the AU command patch on our Flightsuits?

If you look at the website of the Colorado Adjutant General's Department, you will find that CAP is a co-equal agency under the AG, alongside the Army and Air Guard.  The CO Wing commander reports directly to the AG in operational matters.

[mikeylikey]

CAP needs to move from AU.  We need to be a player sitting under a true operational arm of the AF. 

[wingnut]

anyone hear of the rumors that we are moving towards NorthCom, 1st AF, and NORAD. Less Air University??

[RiverAux]

Operationally we've been working for NorthCom and 1st AF for a few years.

[AlphaSigOU]

Second question (sideline) Why dont we wear the AU command patch on our Flightsuits?

'Cause we already have our own emblem. Even though we fall under the USAF oversight umbrella of AU and AETC, we're still a private, non-profit corporation, sometimes acting as the USAF auxiliary. Remember that our relationship with Ma Blue ain't as tight as the Coasties and their Auxies.

[wingnut]

Actually we are not a "Private" non-Profit, I believe we are a Federally Chartered Corporation like the Federal Reserve, you know, we are just "Different", and on an AFAM we are a "Volunteer Federal Employee", with benefits if injured or killed???

Oh yes we do get the Federal "Per Diem" rate for over nighters. In addition when I use my car for an ELT DF, my car is an official "US Government Asset??? (So my Insurance Company tells me) and because of that when I drive my car on a DF mission I am not covered by the private insurance but hopefully 'Federal Government Coverage" (If the IC entered it into the WIMR correctly.

But I could be confused, I was up till Midnight auditing 108s

[mikeylikey]

Actually we are not a "Private" non-Profit, I believe we are a Federally Chartered Corporation like the Federal Reserve, you know, we are just "Different", and on an AFAM we are a "Volunteer Federal Employee", with benefits if injured or killed???

There were some updates and CHANGES to our Insurance and FED Benefits.  It is located in E-services.  Everyone should take a look. 

WE do get compensated as GS-9 Step 1 (or at least our families do) if we are killed on an AFAM.  In the end though, the FED will pay way under what they say they will becasue of Social Security, and perhaps an individuals insurance.  The Guidance provided is somewhat confusing, as I am sure they intended it to be.  Personally, they should pay at a higher rate than GS-9, 10 or better would be fitting. 

[Dragoon]

If I ran the world, I'd transfer CAP and the CONUS SAR mission to NGB in a heartbeat.

Basically, they're the CONUS - based force.  They do more of the DR work anyway.  Just hand 'em AFRCC (along with the slots) and make each TAG responsible for SAR in their state.

They'd dump it on CAP anyway, just on a Wing by Wing basis.

Result for us - closer ties to the state forces and the state legislature (who really run our daily lives anyway).  Less need for local MOUs (we work for the TAGs and do what they want.  More support from the Guard (who are in a lot more communities accross this country than federal USAF).  More ties to the Guard's HLS missions.  More local disaster work (because even if AFNSEP doesn't fund, it would be a snap to get the Guard to take us along when they're mobilized for local disasters).

And we can still do federal stuff, just like the guard does now.  So we pick up state support without losing the federal support.

Basically, most CAP work is local.  Better to be tied to the more "local" part of USAF, than the part that's focused on bombing Afghanistan.  We'd be more relevant to the guard.

[Capt Rivera]

Could you link me to this... I can't find it...

If you look at the website of the Colorado Adjutant General's Department, you will find that CAP is a co-equal agency under the AG, alongside the Army and Air Guard.  The CO Wing commander reports directly to the AG in operational matters.

[sardak]

It's under the Colorado Department of Military and Veterans Affairs:

http://www.dmva.state.co.us/page/home

Kach is correct. COWG and the previous TAG, who retired this year, had a very good working relationship.

CAP is also specified in the State Emergency Operations Plan in three annexes:

ESF #2 Communications
ESF#5 Emergency Management
ESF #9 Search and Rescue

Mike

[sardak]

Not that it matters now, but there was a similar thread to this back in March that got no response. 
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=1676.0

The committee link and the full report are available here:
http://www.cngr.gov/resource-center.CNGR-reports.asp

It makes for interesting reading.

Mike

[Capt Rivera]

thanks guys

[CadetProgramGuy]

Snip

Iowa have a NG Officer Liason or a CAP member on the TAG staff or what? 

Iowa - NG Officer Liason:  Yes we do, Although I will get this wrong, I believe it if the Office of Civilian Support (isuhawkeye can fill you in for sure)

And the IAWG Government Liason sits in on the TAG's weekly meeting.

as I said either isuhawkeye or Lt Col Nick Critelli has the details you are looking for.

[NAYBOR]

Totally outside of what CAP missions would be, a question--would CAP officers then hold state commissions, along with NG commissions of some sort (for CAP's Title 10 status)?  How would rank in the CAP work, if CAP would essentially be run by the state TAGs?

Would CAP members be then eligible to wear state ribbons and awards?

How would all of THAT work?

[ddelaney103]

Totally outside of what CAP missions would be, a question--would CAP officers then hold state commissions, along with NG commissions of some sort (for CAP's Title 10 status)?  How would rank in the CAP work, if CAP would essentially be run by the state TAGs?

Would CAP members be then eligible to wear state ribbons and awards?

How would all of THAT work?

I don't see anything, except maybe the ribbons, changing because of this.  We don't need Commissions to do our jobs now.  We often operate under MOU's with the states now and don't require the TAG to command us.