NB Agenda Sept. 2010

[FW]

Here's the agenda for the National Board Meeting. Enjoy.

[DakRadz]

As a cadet with no experience seeing such documents (why I love CAPtalk- I learn!), I must admit I choked upon seeing 65 pages... Time to get reading!

[cap235629]

Looks like they listened to the membership with the military service award, but once again slap the fat and fuzzy veterans in the face because they don't like us..........

[RVT]

Looks like they listened to the membership with the military service award, but once again slap the fat and fuzzy veterans in the face because they don't like us..........

The point they were making is that they would be authorizing a ribbon that would only be good on the aviator shirt.  It would not be needed on anything else as the only CAP distinctive service coat is being phased out without a replacement.

Its a substitute for all the military ribbons you are not wearing - if you DO have those on, it becomes superfluous.  Create it, and I guarantee people will wear both it AND all their military ribbons.

[Eclipse]

Item 1 & 2 are administrative boiler plate.

Item 3: Cadet Safety Officer and Staff Duty Analysis

Item 4:  Removal of Face-to-Face Safety Education for Members

Item 5:   Modification to Recognition of Safety Excellence

Item 6:  Revision of Introductory Safety Training

Item 7: Change of Language: CAPR 62-2, Addition of Classifications

Item 8: Squadron of Distinction

Item 9: Selection & Appointment Process: NCAC Chair & Vice Chair

Item 10: G1000 Check Ride Requirement

Item 11: Mission Check Pilots

Item 12: Standardize Procedures through the use of Supplements and Operating Procedures

Item 13:  Creation, Listing, and Distribution of Forms

Item 14:  Suspension of Membership

Item 15:   Membership Renewal – Tracking Required Training

Item 16: Establishment of a Drug Demand Reduction Officer Member of the Year Award

Item 17:  Armed Forces Veteran's Ribbon

Item 18: Simplification of ID Card and Documentation Requirements

Item 19:  CAP National Vice Commander Election

Item 20: Confirmation of CS, NFO, NLO, NC, Chaplain

Item 21: Specialty Tracks

Item 22:   CAP Chaplain Qualifications

Item 23:  Extension of Professional Appointments and Promotions to Include Homeland Security and Emergency Management Professionals

Item 24:  Regulations

Item 25: Making Accident / Incident Information available to Pilots

Item 26:  Conduct of Members Using Social Media

[Eclipse]

Item 1 & 2 are administrative boiler plate.

Item 3: Cadet Safety Officer and Staff Duty Analysis
No opinion.

Item 4:  Removal of Face-to-Face Safety Education for Members
Concur.

Item 5:   Modification to Recognition of Safety Excellence
No opinion.

Item 6:  Revision of Introductory Safety Training
Concur.

Item 7: Change of Language: CAPR 62-2, Addition of Classifications
Administrative.

Item 8: Squadron of Distinction
No opinion - the award is already too subjective, and not a "roll-up", which has never made sense to me.

Item 9: Selection & Appointment Process: NCAC Chair & Vice Chair
The only cadets eligible should be the chair(s) of the region CACs.

Item 10: G1000 Check Ride Requirement
Concur, but would also like to see us do a better job nationlly in terms of scheduling aircraft and aircraft maintenance, which is really the problem.  I don't know about other wings, but the number indicated for mine is incorrect (too low, we have 4).

Item 11: Mission Check Pilots
No opinion

Item 12: Standardize Procedures through the use of Supplements and Operating Procedures
Concur, or better still, just reduce / elimiate the process for supplements altogether.  The vast majority I have read either restate existing regs or are somebody's personal per peeve.

Item 13:  Creation, Listing, and Distribution of Forms
No opinion (administrative)

Item 14:  Suspension of Membership
No opinion

Item 15:   Membership Renewal – Tracking Required Training
Concur.

Item 16: Establishment of a Drug Demand Reduction Officer Member of the Year Award
No opinion.

Item 17:  Armed Forces Veteran's Ribbon
Non concur, members are already allowed to wear their military ribbons.

Item 18: Simplification of ID Card and Documentation Requirements
Semi-concur.
How about a real ID system that would link all those quals to the photo ID?  Scan, identify.

Item 19:  CAP National Vice Commander Election
Goof Luck Col. Carr!

Item 20: Confirmation of CS, NFO, NLO, NC, Chaplain
Administrative.

Item 21: Specialty Tracks
Non concur, as mentioned, no problem exists.

Item 22:   CAP Chaplain Qualifications
No opinon beyond I agree that we need to answer this question as posed:
Is the goal of the CAP chaplain program to provide chaplains to the USAF or to provide chaplains to members of the CAP?

Item 23:  Extension of Professional Appointments and Promotions to Include Homeland Security and Emergency Management Professionals
No opinion

Item 24:  Regulations
Concur, or better still, just alighn all of them at once, and then update them within the prescribed deadlines.

Item 25: Making Accident / Incident Information available to Pilots
No opinion.

Item 26:  Conduct of Members Using Social Media
Semi-concur.  We need to do something, but what we can do is a minefield. I wish our new Vice CC the best of luck in this endeavor.

[SarDragon]

Wanna try for three times, Bob? 

[HGjunkie]

Wanna try for three times, Bob? 

Seriously...

[Eclipse]

One is there for others to cut/paste.

No charge.

[arajca]

Item 17 resembles a proposal I submitted a couple years ago. A critical not I included that was not mentioned in the agenda item is the exclusivity between the HSA and military ribbons. One or the other on the AF style uniform, not both.

As to those who say we can already wear our military awards, you're wrong. Not every member can. If you wear the aviator shirt you're SOL.

[DakRadz]

Item 17:  Armed Forces Veteran’s Ribbon
Non concur, members are already allowed to wear their military ribbons.

Point being that those veterans not eligible for USAF-style are confined to Corporate.
No military ribbons on Corporate.

I understand that the cost-effectiveness may be an issue, especially since the number of eligible Corporate uniforms is about to shrink, but members are not always allowed their military ribbons.

arajca beat me to it.

[SarDragon]

This one is really tough for me, as one of the affected members.

On one hand, I get to wear something that acknowledges my military service. On the other, wear of ribbons by officers on shirts seems to be a traditional no-no.

If this were authorized, how many members would actually wear the ribbon?

[Short Field]

On the other, wear of ribbons by officers on shirts seems to be a traditional no-no.

It seems to be the norm more than the exception where I am located.

[DakRadz]

This one is really tough for me, as one of the affected members.

On one hand, I get to wear something that acknowledges my military service. On the other, wear of ribbons by officers on shirts seems to be a traditional no-no.

But sir, you can show you're a former NCO in officer's shouldermarks by wearing ribbons (my CC does it, and one of his ranks was PO1 ^_^)

Short-stacking is one way to go- wear three ribbons that mean the most, low-profile but can speak volumes; plus wings/GT badge/etc.

And I realize I got this idea from my Navy instructors and khakis... Maybe that wouldn't work.

[SarDragon]

That's great, but it's going to take ten years for everyone to learn the new ribbon, anyway.

How many former cadet SMs recognize the Armstrong and Feik ribbons, or even the Eaker, much less regular SMs?

[Майор Хаткевич]

That's great, but it's going to take ten years for everyone to learn the new ribbon, anyway.

How many former cadet SMs recognize the Armstrong and Feik ribbons, or even the Eaker, much less regular SMs?

I never earned the Feik. Though I have some pictures with the Colonel.

[AirDX]

If this were authorized, how many members would actually wear the ribbon?

Me.  I have no other way to demonstrate my prior military service, since I cannot wear the USAF-style uniforms.  It's pretty simple, write the reg so that the ribbon is only authorized when military ribbons are not worn.  People will screw it up, but that's no reason not to write a reg...

And authorize short-stacking, I'd jump on that in a second.

[SarDragon]

Don't get me wrong, I'd wear it, too, but I'm still wondering if it's really worth the effort.

[Eclipse]

And authorize short-stacking, I'd jump on that in a second.

Short stacking is already authorized for Seniors.

[MSG Mac]

I would prefer that they adopt the policy of the Veterans Administration which advocates the wearing of "military ribbons" with civilian clothing on holidays such as Veterans Day, Memorial Day, and the 4Th of July

[arajca]

So, for CAP members who can't/don't wear the AF style uniforms, two sets of ribbons are needed. One for holidays and one for regular wear.

Also, how many times would CAP members be in uniform on those specific days? Memorial Day meetings are cancelled. July 4, same. Given the volunteer spirit of many of our members, they're more likely to be working behind the scenes at various holiday events than in a setting where the service uniforms would be worn. Or they're with family and friends, again not in a setting appropriate for service uniforms.

[Tubacap]

Anyone else see that they are apparently going to start making a WMIRS-based mission management system?  That seems like it would make a lot of sense!  I think I may volunteer to do any work necessary to get that to become a reality.  There is too much paperwork in the mission side of life that is just duplication because of paper and computer requirements.

[arajca]

It's a good idea that requries internet access, which is not always a given.

[wuzafuzz]

It's a good idea that requries internet access, which is not always a given.

Add satellite Internet to the super comm truck wish list     If only...

[Major Carrales]

If this were authorized, how many members would actually wear the ribbon?

Depends on a few things.  Many prior service types here (on CAP TALK) try to, in fact...go out of their way, to down play the wearing of ribbons.  Most I know tend to wear only there top "three" military service ribbons...our Group Commander makes it a point to only wear CAP Ribbons in his CAP uniform when called for (thus, this option might work for him).

In practice, a goodly number of prior service wear it all...even on the shirt.  It falls under the "I earned them, I'll wear them" mantra.  I think that is a personal choice.

I am not prior service, and I wear my CAP ribbons on my shirt.  I also sometimes go with only the badges.  Some take issue with these descisions, but it is a personal choice that should be respected as much as any other.

[Eclipse]

Guys, seriously, I like talking uniform minutia as much as the next guy, but with 20+ things on the agenda and all the other nonsense going on, the only thing anyone here cares about is a ribbon the majority of members won't or can't wear?

We have met the enemy and he is us...

[Eclipse]

It's a good idea that requries internet access, which is not always a given.

ICP's are supposed to be in an area with robust infrastructure.

When they aren't, by the time we get there FEMA and others have rolled in the SAT trucks or otherwise provided connectivity.  The Feds can't operate without it, nor can most supporting agencies (ARC, etc.).

The vast majority of members have internet access on their phone.

Whether the specific plan or system is appropriate is arguable from an operational standpoint, but the argument that when Armageddon hits all we will have is stone tablets no longer flies.

[arajca]

It's a good idea that requries internet access, which is not always a given.

Add satellite Internet to the super comm truck wish list     If only...

It's already on mine...

[arajca]

Guys, seriously, I like talking uniform minutia as much as the next guy, but with 20+ things on the agenda and all the other nonsense going on, the only thing anyone here cares about is a ribbon the majority of members won't or can't wear?

We have met the enemy and he is us...

Three words - Low Hanging Fruit.

Most of the rest requires thought...

[arajca]

It's a good idea that requries internet access, which is not always a given.

ICP's are supposed to be in an area with robust infrastructure.

When they aren't, by the time we get there FEMA and others have rolled in the SAT trucks or otherwise provided connectivity.  The Feds can't operate without it, nor can most supporting agencies (ARC, etc.).

The vast majority of members have internet access on their phone.

Whether the specific plan or system is appropriate is arguable from an operational standpoint, but the argument that when Armageddon hits all we will have is stone tablets no longer flies.

Unfortunately, many areas of the country, particularly in the mountains, lack decent cell phone coverage, let alone internet access. In a disaster environment, the ICP may be set up already in areas without internet. Additionally, we can be called out before FEMA, etc.

[Thom]

It's a good idea that requries internet access, which is not always a given.

ICP's are supposed to be in an area with robust infrastructure.

When they aren't, by the time we get there FEMA and others have rolled in the SAT trucks or otherwise provided connectivity.  The Feds can't operate without it, nor can most supporting agencies (ARC, etc.).

The vast majority of members have internet access on their phone.

Whether the specific plan or system is appropriate is arguable from an operational standpoint, but the argument that when Armageddon hits all we will have is stone tablets no longer flies.

I have bolded part of Eclipse's comment to make a further point.  Agencies other than CAP routinely have separate Fixed-Wing Airbases apart (and often many miles away) from the ICP.  CAP would do well to remember this.  In a real emergency, such as the next Katrina/Rita, the ICP might need to be in Dallas, while the aircraft operate from a minimal forward Airbase in Gonzales or Baton Rouge.  There should be no need for anything more than simple voice phone service, either cellular or landline, or even HF radio, from the Airbase.  The ICP on the other hand would need full Internet access and would be positioned in an area where that presents no difficulties.

Now, I would of course love to have a tiered system of hardwire Internet, 3G Internet, Satellite Internet, Ham Internet Link, generators, etc. so that we can keep the ICP local and keep it up and running in the face of a disaster, but really that is just wasteful spending on tech we don't need when we should be leveraging the system and our fellow CAP members.  Sometimes the solution is a Process, not a Technology.

To draw an analogy from the civilian business world:  I help companies and educational institutions with Disaster Recovery and Business Continuity.  Basically, after a storm/fire/flood how do you recover and get back to work.  In the very old days people spent millions of dollars to harden their data centers so they could withstand floods or hurricanes.  These days, no one spends more than a token amount of money doing that, what they do spend their money on is this: An alternate location in a different geographical area than that where the primary location is situated that can take over quickly (sometimes instantly...) in the event the primary location is damaged or loses power or Internet access or whatever.  If your primary location is in New Orleans, your backup location might be in Nashville.  The odds of a single disaster affecting both at the same time are remote.  The point is they have learned to only depend on services from locations which were outside of the disasters effects.


Thom

[Eclipse]

Thom - right on the money.

[AlphaSigOU]

The proposal for the Armed Forces Veteran ribbon is fine; however I would clarify the wear of the ribbon to these conditions:

Members serving on active duty, reserve or national guard status, retirees and veterans discharged under honorable conditions may wear all or any combination of U.S. decorations, service medals and ribbons earned on the USAF-style uniform. However, if the member chooses only to wear the Armed Forces Veteran ribbon to represent his or her prior military service on either the USAF-style or CAP corporate uniform, then only that ribbon, along with CAP ribbons are worn.

Members who wear the corporate uniform may only wear the Armed Forces Veteran ribbon along with CAP ribbons.

[Thom]

Well, I've got some time, so I'll add my two cents, and I'm leaving out the admin items and things where I have No Opinion:

Item 4:  Removal of Face-to-Face Safety Education for Members
Concur - Time to embrace some flexibility

Item 6:  Revision of Introductory Safety Training
Concur - But should Exempt Current Members - Really a change of language and convention to enable future flexibility

Item 10: G1000 Check Ride Requirement
Concur

Item 11: Mission Check Pilots
Concur

Item 12: Standardize Procedures through the use of Supplements and Operating Procedures
Nice idea, but this problem is bigger than just this issue - We need a larger scale attempt to 'revitalize' our standard processes, forms, publications, etc.  If we are going to rely on these documents and procedures then they need to be well-considered, well-documented, and well-standardized throughout the country.  The presence of Local/Wing/Regional exceptions to these should be Rare and only allowed in cases where they are truly necessary.

Item 13:  Creation, Listing, and Distribution of Forms
Same as Item 12 above.

Item 15:   Membership Renewal – Tracking Required Training
This would open a can of worms - If you feel that strongly start a committee (which we'll never hear from again...)

Item 17:  Armed Forces Veteran's Ribbon
Refer to Uniform Committee - That's why we formed one, right? To let them deal with this stuff in a cohesive and coherent manner.

Item 18: Simplification of ID Card and Documentation Requirements
Great Idea, but at the wrong time.  Should have done this 3 years ago, now the new eServices/MIMS/WMIRS/etc. online project is so close it's not worth the time and effort since that project will supplant and obviate this proposal.  Of course, the endgame should be a single photo ID with ties to either a master database, or all the individual back end databases.  Take a look at how the IDs work for Wildland Fire Fighters sometime.  That stuff is amazing.  Scan an ID at a mission base and know everything, including what skills they have, what equipment they've trained on, where they've been, when they've had rest days, when they've been fed, etc.

Item 21: Specialty Tracks
Not a real problem - make the PD officer do their job

Item 22:   CAP Chaplain Qualifications
Personally the Chaplain requirements seem pretty steep, but I'll leave this one in the hands of the Chaplain Corps, they know their calling better than I do

Item 23:  Extension of Professional Appointments and Promotions to Include Homeland Security and Emergency Management Professionals
Nice idea, would help to attract some additional folks with both expertise and ties (read contacts and networking knowledge...) to the HS and Emergency Mgmt. fields, but currently there are very few 'milestone' credentials one could use to judge experience in these fields...would become very subjective...

Item 24:  Regulations
Nice, but why not work faster?

Item 25: Making Accident / Incident Information available to Pilots
Hopefully they are done coming up with a way to sanitize them so they can be widely distributed...

Item 26:  Conduct of Members Using Social Media
Oh man, what a minefield...I recommend someone mumble something about dinner's ready and whatnot and we forget this was ever on the Agenda...



Thom

[Patterson]

Item 3: Cadet Safety Officer and Staff Duty Analysis
Instead of adding one, lets get rid of the SDA Program and replace it with something more Tenty-First Century (think online....)

Item 4:  Removal of Face-to-Face Safety Education for Members
YES!!!!  Safety is really starting to eat up time these days.  So much easier to go online, read the safety page, view a presentation or watch a short news story.

Item 5:   Modification to Recognition of Safety Excellence
Why??

Item 6:  Revision of Introductory Safety Training
Roll Basic Safety and ORM into level one course, and make it all online.

Item 7: Change of Language: CAPR 62-2, Addition of Classifications

Item 8: Squadron of Distinction
Point??  The SOD Program is based on luck.  Lucky if a unit can get O-Rides when all the planes are flying Counter Drug.  Luck that the weather didn't suck and the unit didnt cancel 30% of its activities.  Luck that the unit didn't get booted from the Armory they were in to a basement of a VFW.  See my drift?!?!

Item 9: Selection & Appointment Process: NCAC Chair & Vice Chair
ummm....what?!?!  The CAC is an advisory council that has no power.  Why are we wasting time on this issue, when the current system has worked just fine for years and years??  I think I hear the Chairman behind this one!

Item 10: G1000 Check Ride Requirement
WHY DOES THE CONGRESSIONAL SQUADRON HAVE ANY OF THESE PLANES TO BEGIN WITH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

Item 11: Mission Check Pilots

Item 12: Standardize Procedures through the use of Supplements and Operating Procedures
waste of time and resources. 

Item 13:  Creation, Listing, and Distribution of Forms
See above

Item 14:  Suspension of Membership
Too much time is already given to the IG to complete an investigation.

Item 15:   Membership Renewal – Tracking Required Training
Yes....lets do one more thing that will cost us members!!!!

Item 16: Establishment of a Drug Demand Reduction Officer Member of the Year Award
Why be enrolled in the specialty track?  What if enrolled at the "None" level but you are so awesome at DDR, but can't get the award because you don't have your Tech Rating??

Item 17:  Armed Forces Veteran's Ribbon
How about using this to replace ALL MILITARY RIBBONS WORN?!?!?!?!  Then ask those slim members in AF-Style if they like being told they can not wear their EARNED RIBBONS?!?!?!?!?!?  I guarantee attitudes change real quick!!!!!!!!!!!!

Item 18: Simplification of ID Card and Documentation Requirements
How about an ID Card that get laughed at by the Airman when I pull up to the gate at the Air Force Base. 

Item 19:  CAP National Vice Commander Election
and we care because?!?!?!

Item 20: Confirmation of CS, NFO, NLO, NC, Chaplain

Item 21: Specialty Tracks

Item 22:   CAP Chaplain Qualifications
Wow....the chaplains that shot this down sound like a bunch of good ol' boys, with doctorate degrees who don't want to share the title.  I could give a crap if we support the AF Chaplain Corps.  How about supporting CAP members first.  If they know degrees can be bought online for $35.00, then kick out members who try to use those $35.00 degrees for advanced promotions and entrance into the Chaplain Corps.

Item 23:  Extension of Professional Appointments and Promotions to Include Homeland Security and Emergency Management Professionals
We need to eliminate Professional Appointments, not ADD TO THEM!!!!

Item 24:  Regulations

Item 25: Making Accident / Incident Information available to Pilots
How about available to everyone.  If we said "Lt soandso, rolled the corporate Van over and killed 5 Cadets because he overloaded the cargo area and was driving too fast, perhaps others may listen!!!

Item 26:  Conduct of Members Using Social Media
ummm......what?!?!  Are you kidding me?  Then you will have members going around trying to make other members do or say something just to get the people they hate kicked out of CAP. 

[arajca]

Item 1 & 2 are administrative boiler plate.
No issues

Item 3: Cadet Safety Officer and Staff Duty Analysis
As mentioned, the devil is in the details. An extremely important point is to make sure the Cadet Safety Officer does NOT become the defacto Unit Safety Officer.

Item 4:  Removal of Face-to-Face Safety Education for Members
A better system of tracking compliance is needed. Can a unit safety officer really vouch for a member with some form of evaluation or independent tracking? If members are willing to pencil-whip ES qualifications, what are the odds they'll pencil-whip safety compliance?

Item 5:   Modification to Recognition of Safety Excellence
Unimportant. There have been 3-4 recognition programs in the past 3-6 years, so no one really pays attention to them, except at echelons above reality.

Item 6:  Revision of Introductory Safety Training
Concur with staff statements

Item 7: Change of Language: CAPR 62-2, Addition of Classifications
It makes sense to have the categories defined that NOT a result of anything a CAP member did or did not do.

Item 8: Squadron of Distinction
Does not apply to 99% of CAP units. A formalized GOB process.

Item 9: Selection & Appointment Process: NCAC Chair & Vice Chair
And exactly how would a cadet get the necessary experience to lead the NCAC? This has shades of HWRN all over it.

Item 10: G1000 Check Ride Requirement
No Opinion

Item 11: Mission Check Pilots
No Opinion

Item 12: Standardize Procedures through the use of Supplements and Operating Procedures
In regards to regulations, standardization is a good thing.

Item 13:  Creation, Listing, and Distribution of Forms
Having a single list of forms and the current dates of them makes sense. Many times we are told to use CAPF ###. How hard is it really to make these attachments into real forms?

Item 14:  Suspension of Membership
Non-concur.

Item 15:   Membership Renewal – Tracking Required Training
Interesting, but should not be a high priority item.

Item 16: Establishment of a Drug Demand Reduction Officer Member of the Year Award
Why not? There are many others.

Item 17:  Armed Forces Veteran's Ribbon
I agree with the idea, but not the different devices for each service.

Item 18: Simplification of ID Card and Documentation Requirements
Needs simplifaction. B/A-CUT can be tracked and noted by a check box on the bottom, or a simple colored band – no band=no ROA, blue=Basic, red=Advanced – along one edge.

Item 19:  CAP National Vice Commander Election
No Opinion

Item 20: Confirmation of CS, NFO, NLO, NC, Chaplain
No Opinion

Item 21: Specialty Tracks
Solution looking for problem.

Item 22:   CAP Chaplain Qualifications
No Opinion

Item 23:  Extension of Professional Appointments and Promotions to Include Homeland Security and Emergency Management Professionals
Disagree. It is easy to get a degree in Emergency Management or Homeland Security without ever doing the job or being involved in the field.

Item 24:  Regulations
Good information

Item 25: Making Accident / Incident Information available to Pilots
Making sanitized mishap information available is a good idea. The affected folks will know who is involved. The rest of us don't need to know.

Item 26:  Conduct of Members Using Social Media
Difficult issue, but no information on recommended actions provided, so hard to form an opinion on.

[Short Field]

Item 3: Cadet Safety Officer and Staff Duty Analysis
  - Starts off with a faulty premise:  Cadets have reportable incidents because we don't let them be safety officers.   It is ok if they just want to add a safety officer SDA.  However, they are wrong if they think it will change the number of reportable incidents by adding a cadet safety officer.

Item 4:  Removal of Face-to-Face Safety Education for Members
  - Bad idea.  It just lets the pencil whipping get even more prevalent.  "Yes, I read the article in the Safety Beacon so I am good to go".  It would also eliminate the last reason some members ever show up for a meeting.

Item 10: G1000 Check Ride Requirement
  - Concur -  I would much rather fly with someone with current time in the aircraft than someone who passed the Fm 5 ride because the check pilot was feeling kindly toward them..

Item 14:  Suspension of Membership
  -- Non-concur for the reasons stated by Nat Hqs

Item 15:   Membership Renewal – Tracking Required Training
  -- Non-concur.  It just lets weak-willed commanders shift the blame to others for the steps they should already be taking.

Item 17:  Armed Forces Veteran's Ribbon
  -- Non-concur.  Just more bling.  (In the interest of Full Disclosure:  28 years active duty, I don't wear the Air Force Style Uniforms except for the flight suit and I don't wear any ribbons on my white shirt.)

Item 21: Specialty Tracks
  -- Concur.  I don't believe the Professional Development Adviser at National Staff knows what they are talking about when they say the unit PD officer can remove a member's specialty track. 

Item 22:   CAP Chaplain Qualifications
  -- Non-concur.  I know what a CAP Chaplain brings me with the current requirements and I know I can trust them.   Anything less just opens it up to people who join CAP only to proselytize the members. 

Item 23:  Extension of Professional Appointments and Promotions to Include Homeland Security and Emergency Management Professionals
-- Non-concur.  Too broad and no established standards.

Item 26:  Conduct of Members Using Social Media
  -- Non-concur.  There are enough hammers in the organization to correct inappropriate behavior/posting by members if it reaches the serious stage. 

[Tim Medeiros]

Item 21: Specialty Tracks
  -- Concur.  I don't believe the Professional Development Adviser at National Staff knows what they are talking about when they say the unit PD officer can remove a member's specialty track. 

According to a friend of mine, a commander has the ability to remove a member's specialty track, yes said friend is a commander.  If wanted, I'll ask them for a screenshot.

[JC004]

These are CAP's most pressing issues of 2010?

[SarDragon]

Item 21: Specialty Tracks
  -- Concur.  I don't believe the Professional Development Adviser at National Staff knows what they are talking about when they say the unit PD officer can remove a member's specialty track. 

According to a friend of mine, a commander has the ability to remove a member's specialty track, yes said friend is a commander.  If wanted, I'll ask them for a screenshot.

I have PDO privileges. I can submit additions, but there's no place to do a deletion, so the quoted assertion is correct. Deletion appears to be a Commander only function.

[PHall]

These are CAP's most pressing issues of 2010?

According to the Wing and Region Commanders who placed them on the agenda, yes!

[JC004]

These are CAP's most pressing issues of 2010?

According to the Wing and Region Commanders who placed them on the agenda, yes!

Wow. 

[bosshawk]

Looks like SSDD to me.  For those of you who don't know what that means, PM me.  I live in CA and I will be at least 400 miles away from San Diego: I would go further away if I could manage it.  Besides, I have some shoe laces that need dyeing that weekend.

[BillB]

I note that Item 9 the selection of NCAC Chair has NO comment from the National Cadet Programs Advisor. Why. The National Legal Officer makes a comment, but no inpt from Cadet Programs. Ned, Why? This and the current CAPR 52-16 puts the Cadet Advisory Council at all levels under the thumb of Senior members. The original CAP Teg on CAC had all positions elected by cadets not appointed by the various Commanders. This policy was in effect until the period of He Whose Name We Do Not mention. The original concept was to allow a means of communications for cadets to higher levels of the organization. Item 9 is poorly thought out.

[Eclipse]

I note that Item 9 the selection of NCAC Chair has NO comment from the National Cadet Programs Advisor. Why. The National Legal Officer makes a comment, but no inpt from Cadet Programs. Ned, Why? This and the current CAPR 52-16 puts the Cadet Advisory Council at all levels under the thumb of Senior members. The original CAP Teg on CAC had all positions elected by cadets not appointed by the various Commanders. This policy was in effect until the period of He Whose Name We Do Not mention. The original concept was to allow a means of communications for cadets to higher levels of the organization. Item 9 is poorly thought out.

Under the thumb?

The entire purpose of the CAC is to advise the commander of their respective echelon, not necessarily advise higher levels.  They exist for a specific purpose, and are not an autonomous body.

Of course the respective commander has the authority to appoint the chair (vs. being elected).  He also has the option to not appoint one at all.

[Ned]

I note that Item 9 the selection of NCAC Chair has NO comment from the National Cadet Programs Advisor. Why?
The National Legal Officer makes a comment, but no input from Cadet Programs. Ned, Why?

Nothing too mysterious.

It's mostly because I was in Ghana when the AI's came out for comment, and my Blackberry was giving me trouble on top of that.

Never impute a conspiracy when simple logistics is more likely.

This and the current CAPR 52-16 puts the Cadet Advisory Council at all levels under the thumb of Senior members. The original CAP Teg on CAC had all positions elected by cadets not appointed by the various Commanders. This policy was in effect until the period of He Whose Name We Do Not mention. The original concept was to allow a means of communications for cadets to higher levels of the organization. Item 9 is poorly thought out.

I don't have a comprehensive history of the CAC organization and function handy, but to my recollection commanders have always had the option of appointing their CAC chair.  After all, the purpose of the CAC has always been to advise the echelon commander.  And commanders have inherent authority to appoint their staff.  I agree that there is a strong tradition of elections within some CACs, and often commanders validate the elections with appointment.  (Heck, I was elected as a wing CAC chair back in the Middle Ages.)

But it is always a commander's signature that goes on the bottom of the form 2A, and always has been.

This proposal is an attempt to bring the NCAC chair selection in line with the other National-level staff jobs.  Like mine, for instance.  I have an advisory role (and some administrative responsibilities, as well), but I wasn't elected by the other region DCPs.  The job came open, and I applied for it, submitting a cover letter and resume like everyone else.  Ultimately I was selected by my boss, the national commander.

The election process carries with it its own baggage.  One need only look at our National Commander election process to see that  - unfortunately - on occasion issues beyond job competence come into play. 

[Майор Хаткевич]

The last Wing CAC election teleconference I participated in turned into a zoo. After that our unit CC said we're not sending a rep to group or wing.

[JC004]

WIWAC and became wing vice chair (through some conspiring of parties who wanted me there...I didn't run), I got elected, then FW signed a 2A appointing me.  So that's both.  The elections always seemed to function as a nomination WIWAC. 

FW, of course, did this before he knew I was a troublemaker because I ask a lot of questions and I want answers to them.  Many folks have discovered that when I devote years of my life, thousands of hours, and tons of money to something, I want to know what is being done with that investment.  I'm funny like that.  Some don't think it's so funny.  Oh well.

[DogCollar]

Item 22:   CAP Chaplain Qualifications
Wow....the chaplains that shot this down sound like a bunch of good ol' boys, with doctorate degrees who don't want to share the title.  I could give a crap if we support the AF Chaplain Corps.  How about supporting CAP members first.  If they know degrees can be bought online for $35.00, then kick out members who try to use those $35.00 degrees for advanced promotions and entrance into the Chaplain Corps.

I applaud the Chaplain Corps for an unwillingness to water down the chaplain qualifications!!  Chaplains ARE primarily available for CAP members.  That will always be the priority focus.  Yet, some chaplains are also available to assist the Air Force when called upon and this does not distract in anyway, shape or form from the primary focus.

[Mustang]

Item 9 scares me as it has the potential to prolong Chairman King's reign.

[SarDragon]

Item 9 scares me as it has the potential to prolong Chairman King's reign.

Birthday: October 9, 1989

He ages out in two months.

[Patterson]

Item 22:   CAP Chaplain Qualifications
Wow....the chaplains that shot this down sound like a bunch of good ol' boys, with doctorate degrees who don't want to share the title.  I could give a crap if we support the AF Chaplain Corps.  How about supporting CAP members first.  If they know degrees can be bought online for $35.00, then kick out members who try to use those $35.00 degrees for advanced promotions and entrance into the Chaplain Corps.

I applaud the Chaplain Corps for an unwillingness to water down the chaplain qualifications!!  Chaplains ARE primarily available for CAP members.  That will always be the priority focus.  Yet, some chaplains are also available to assist the Air Force when called upon and this does not distract in anyway, shape or form from the primary focus.

I am guessing that you have recruited many Chaplains, and each went through the vetting process without any problems??

[Майор Хаткевич]

Item 9 scares me as it has the potential to prolong Chairman King's reign.

Birthday: October 9, 1989

He ages out in two months.

Glory to age limits!

[Mustang]

Item 9 scares me as it has the potential to prolong Chairman King's reign.

Birthday: October 9, 1989

He ages out in two months.

Thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[JC004]

Item 9 scares me as it has the potential to prolong Chairman King's reign.

Birthday: October 9, 1989

He ages out in two months.

The question is...does that mean the end of the weeeeeeird stuff the NCAC is doing or does it continue?  *dramatic music plays*

[DogCollar]

Item 22:   CAP Chaplain Qualifications
Wow....the chaplains that shot this down sound like a bunch of good ol' boys, with doctorate degrees who don't want to share the title.  I could give a crap if we support the AF Chaplain Corps.  How about supporting CAP members first.  If they know degrees can be bought online for $35.00, then kick out members who try to use those $35.00 degrees for advanced promotions and entrance into the Chaplain Corps.

I applaud the Chaplain Corps for an unwillingness to water down the chaplain qualifications!!  Chaplains ARE primarily available for CAP members.  That will always be the priority focus.  Yet, some chaplains are also available to assist the Air Force when called upon and this does not distract in anyway, shape or form from the primary focus.

I am guessing that you have recruited many Chaplains, and each went through the vetting process without any problems??

Have you?

The recruiting and retention of Chaplains has nothing to do with the vetting process, but everything to do with the problem of recruting and retaining ANY member to CAP.  Those issues are the time commitment expected, and not knowing what CAP is all about.  I believe that the vetting process for CAP Chaplains, while necessarily rigorous, is something that should be expected by all clergy who wish to volunteer in a service organization that involves working with children.

[cap235629]

Item 22:   CAP Chaplain Qualifications
Wow....the chaplains that shot this down sound like a bunch of good ol' boys, with doctorate degrees who don't want to share the title.  I could give a crap if we support the AF Chaplain Corps.  How about supporting CAP members first.  If they know degrees can be bought online for $35.00, then kick out members who try to use those $35.00 degrees for advanced promotions and entrance into the Chaplain Corps.

I applaud the Chaplain Corps for an unwillingness to water down the chaplain qualifications!!  Chaplains ARE primarily available for CAP members.  That will always be the priority focus.  Yet, some chaplains are also available to assist the Air Force when called upon and this does not distract in anyway, shape or form from the primary focus.

I am guessing that you have recruited many Chaplains, and each went through the vetting process without any problems??

Have you?

The recruiting and retention of Chaplains has nothing to do with the vetting process, but everything to do with the problem of recruting and retaining ANY member to CAP.  Those issues are the time commitment expected, and not knowing what CAP is all about.  I believe that the vetting process for CAP Chaplains, while necessarily rigorous, is something that should be expected by all clergy who wish to volunteer in a service organization that involves working with children.

And they should be subject to more scrutiny why? I am Catholic. One of our Deacon's who is involved in FULL TIME ministry does not meet your criteria because his training was conducted by the diocese. He has been in active ministry for about 5 years. I mean 40 plus hours a week. Because he does not have a degree, he wouldn't make the cut, but a part time minister of a 20 person community church who went Bible College does.  Something stinks here......

[DogCollar]

Item 22:   CAP Chaplain Qualifications
Wow....the chaplains that shot this down sound like a bunch of good ol' boys, with doctorate degrees who don't want to share the title.  I could give a crap if we support the AF Chaplain Corps.  How about supporting CAP members first.  If they know degrees can be bought online for $35.00, then kick out members who try to use those $35.00 degrees for advanced promotions and entrance into the Chaplain Corps.

I applaud the Chaplain Corps for an unwillingness to water down the chaplain qualifications!!  Chaplains ARE primarily available for CAP members.  That will always be the priority focus.  Yet, some chaplains are also available to assist the Air Force when called upon and this does not distract in anyway, shape or form from the primary focus.

I am guessing that you have recruited many Chaplains, and each went through the vetting process without any problems??

Have you?

The recruiting and retention of Chaplains has nothing to do with the vetting process, but everything to do with the problem of recruting and retaining ANY member to CAP.  Those issues are the time commitment expected, and not knowing what CAP is all about.  I believe that the vetting process for CAP Chaplains, while necessarily rigorous, is something that should be expected by all clergy who wish to volunteer in a service organization that involves working with children.

And they should be subject to more scrutiny why? I am Catholic. One of our Deacon's who is involved in FULL TIME ministry does not meet your criteria because his training was conducted by the diocese. He has been in active ministry for about 5 years. I mean 40 plus hours a week. Because he does not have a degree, he wouldn't make the cut, but a part time minister of a 20 person community church who went Bible College does.  Something stinks here......

Because a Chaplain is the only person in CAP who is allowed to be alone, one on one, with a cadet.  However, CAP is not alone in these requirements.  I once looked into volunteering as a chaplain for our local police department and the hoops are pretty much the same as CAP's.  The same is for volunteer chaplains in healthcare, which is the industry in which I work.  It is just plain difficult for clergy to volunteer for ministerial roles in this society.  I have come to learn to expect it.

[Eclipse]

Because a Chaplain is the only person in CAP who is allowed to be alone, one on one, with a cadet.

100% incorrect.  Time to review your CPPT regs.

[cap235629]

Because a Chaplain is the only person in CAP who is allowed to be alone, one on one, with a cadet.

100% incorrect.  Time to review your CPPT regs.

beat me to it! Also, you still haven't addressed my Deacon example. In my wing there is not 1 Catholic Chaplain. There just aren't enough Priests. I have tried repeatedly to recruit some. As a Catholic I and many others just don't feel comfortable with a Chaplain who isn't Catholic.

[DogCollar]

Because a Chaplain is the only person in CAP who is allowed to be alone, one on one, with a cadet.

100% incorrect.  Time to review your CPPT regs.

Ok...ok...chaplains who are counseling and pilots who are performing o-rides.  I stand corrected.

As far as the Deacon...I understand your concern about all the work that he has done to get to the level he has reached.  I also appreciate that.  I don't have a good answer for you as to why he can't be a chaplain in CAP.  I know that is an unsatisfying answer and I apologize that I can't do better.  I am not on the Chaplain Corps Advisory Counsel and cannot speak to policy development.  As far as the response to the proposal before the National Board, I am supportive of the Chaplain Corps response.

[Eclipse]

Because a Chaplain is the only person in CAP who is allowed to be alone, one on one, with a cadet.

100% incorrect.  Time to review your CPPT regs.

Ok...ok...chaplains who are counseling and pilots who are performing o-rides.  I stand corrected.

Apparently you don't.

There is no "2-up" rule in CAP with an asterisk for counseling or flying, nor is there a gender requirement.

Anything else is CYA, not required by regulations.  (overnight supervision not withstanding).

[Short Field]

Also, you still haven't addressed my Deacon example.

Because your Deacon does not have a college degree.  There has to be a line somewhere. 

Chaplain = Chaplain.  Works in the RM.

[Eclipse]

Dogcollar - I don't know why you think this rates a PM, this is a pretty common discussion and misconception in CAP.

Repeating, there is no rule restricting a senior member from being alone with a cadet, nor any gender requirements in regards to supervision.

Relevant KB article including reg cites:  http://tinyurl.com/33k2obr

Quoted from the KB which paraphrases the regulations in the KB.   
The regulations do not require a specific ratio of senior members to cadets or that senior members are male or female, even if both male and female cadets are present. Commanders must ensure that at least two "approved" senior members are present at all overnight cadet activities. They are encouraged to have at least two senior members present at all cadet activities (with the exception of chaplain counseling or cadet orientation flights). This policy is for the protection of the senior members as well as the cadets. Of course, common sense and good judgment must be considered.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Boy, I must be in trouble for that one year when a fellow C/Exec Staff and I stayed over at a certain SMs house the night before we rolled to encampment!

And to think the horrors! His kids sort of liked us and the SMs wife even offered to feed us, but that time he came down to the basement to iron his uniform, that could have been a tragedy!

[DogCollar]

Dogcollar - I don't know why you think this rates a PM, this is a pretty common discussion and misconception in CAP.

 

I moved it to PM to keep this thread from getting ugly.  Your original response didn't offer a correction...just that I was 100% wrong.  THAT kind of response should have been a PM.

[Chappie]

Also, you still haven't addressed my Deacon example.

Because your Deacon does not have a college degree.  There has to be a line somewhere. 

Chaplain = Chaplain.  Works in the RM.

It is partly due the educational requirement.  Neither the USAF or CAP appoints Deacons as Chaplains.  The criteria is listed in the CAPR 265-1:

b. Ecclesiastical Endorsement.  Chaplains will receive an ecclesiastical endorsement from a faith group listed by the Armed Forces Chaplains Board (AFCB) prior to appointment as a chaplain.  Endorsements are valid until withdrawn or asked to be renewed by the individual endorser.  Chaplains who change denominational affiliation must obtain a new endorsement.  If a new endorsement or renewal is not obtained within 90 days, their chaplain status will be withdrawn.  The endorsement shall certify that the applicant is:
(1) A fully ordained or qualified priest, rabbi, or minister of religion

CAP has followed the criteria set forth by the military branches -- specifically the USAF with whom we have been identified with for our 60 years of existence.

The CAP Chaplain Corps does provide for a waiver for the minister without  a graduate degree.

(3) The Chief of the Chaplain Corps (CAP/HC) may grant a waiver to those who do not meet the graduate study requirement providing they meet all other requirements and present valid documentation of at least 5 years of full time ministry experience as a pastor within their denomination.  Chaplains who receive a waiver are not eligible to provide assistance to the military.   


There is a place that the deacon can most likely serve and that is in the role of Character Development Instructor.   

[cap235629]

a Catholic Deacon IS a minister of Religion. This statement just proves my point. Most folks don't have a clue what a Deacon is in the Catholic Church. They are ordained ministers of the Gospel and take the Sacrament of Holy Orders. There are certain things they cannot do but all of the duties of a Chaplain fall into their daily job description. A deacon in the Catholic Church is an ordained member of the clergy, not a lay person.

[CAP277]

Anyone know the dates for the upcoming Winter National Boards in DC ?

Thanks

[Майор Хаткевич]

As an Atheist, I had to look this up, but this is from Wiki:

In the years just prior to the Second Vatican Council, the only men ordained as deacons were seminarians who were completing the last year or so of graduate theological training, who received the order several months before priestly ordination.

Following the recommendations of the council (in Lumen Gentium 29), in 1967 Pope Paul VI issued the motu proprio Sacrum Diaconatus Ordinem, restoring the ancient practice of ordaining to the diaconate men who were not candidates for priestly ordination. These men are known as permanent deacons in contrast to those completing their training, who were then called transitional deacons. There is no sacramental difference between the two, however, as there is only one order of deacons.[6]

The permanent diaconate formation period in the Catholic Church entails a four or five year training period that resembles a collegiate course of study. Diaconal candidates receive instruction in philosophy, theology, study of the Holy Scriptures (the Bible), homiletics, sacramental studies, evangelization, ecclesiology, counseling, and pastoral care and ministry before ordination. Although they are assigned to work in a parish by the diocesan bishop, once assigned, deacons are under the supervision of the parish priest.[7] Unlike most clerics, permanent deacons that also have a secular profession have no right to receive a salary for their ministry,[8] but many dioceses opt to remunerate them anyway.

Bolded portions done by me.

[RiverAux]

Seems like a mostly worthwhile agenda (unlike the last NEC's).  A few thoughts:

Item 12 - Supplements/ICLs -- I'm a little disappointed that they're not really tearing into this regulation.  We've had several threads on issues relating to improving this system. 

Items 23 - Special appointments for HLS/EM specialists -- Concurr with earlier comments that this is taking us in the wrong direction.  Should be looking at eliminating these rather than adding new ones.  As has been said, since there are no real standards in this field, I don't see how we can really match them up with specific CAP ranks anyway. 

I also strongly disagree with the legal officers comments recommending exempting NASAR folks from certain CAP ES requirements.  If they're already NASAR qualified they should be able to zip through CAP's GT tasks in a day and I still think we'd want them to get experience as CAP GT members before moving up. 

Item 24 -- Report on oldest CAP regulations.  I'm interested to see that they're working on revising the history program regulation and the firearms/assistance to law enforcement regulation. 

[Chappie]

a Catholic Deacon IS a minister of Religion. This statement just proves my point. Most folks don't have a clue what a Deacon is in the Catholic Church. They are ordained ministers of the Gospel and take the Sacrament of Holy Orders. There are certain things they cannot do but all of the duties of a Chaplain fall into their daily job description. A deacon in the Catholic Church is an ordained member of the clergy, not a lay person.

All I can add is that the CAP Chaplain Corps follows the DODI 1304.28 in the appointment of its chaplains -- with the above cited exception of offering a waiver.  CAP Chaplains who have been waivered do not serve as "force multipliers" for the military.  Here's the DODI:  http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/130428p.pdf

On another note, I recently guided the application for a Catholic priest to be successfully appointed as a CAP Chaplain.  Applicants must have the approval of the Military Diocese: http://www.catholicmil.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=frontpage&Itemid=185  and https://milarch.org/.

All endorsing agencies verify the religious qualifications of the applicant (see DOD 2088 - attachment 6 in the DODI).  Unless an applicant has one of these for active/reserve chaplaincy in the military or CAP, there is no appointment.  I am working with a Lutheran minister whose endorser will not give him a DOD 2088 until he has a MDiv.  That is not the fault of the CAP Chaplain Corps that he can't be appointed a Chaplain....that is a matter between him and his endorser.  We have to abide by the DODI 1304.28.  So until the endorsers and DODI 1304.28 change their long held policy, I would encourage your Deacon to pursue becoming a CDI. 

[Chappie]

Item 22:   CAP Chaplain Qualifications
Wow....the chaplains that shot this down sound like a bunch of good ol' boys, with doctorate degrees who don't want to share the title.  I could give a crap if we support the AF Chaplain Corps.  How about supporting CAP members first.  If they know degrees can be bought online for $35.00, then kick out members who try to use those $35.00 degrees for advanced promotions and entrance into the Chaplain Corps.

I applaud the Chaplain Corps for an unwillingness to water down the chaplain qualifications!!  Chaplains ARE primarily available for CAP members.  That will always be the priority focus.  Yet, some chaplains are also available to assist the Air Force when called upon and this does not distract in anyway, shape or form from the primary focus. 

Not a good ol' boy....but supported the decision made by the CCAC.  I do not hold a doctorate.  I am a CAP Chaplain who came in on the educational waiver (My Masters degree is not from a regionally accredited institution.)  It is a privilege to not only wear the USAF-style uniform but to wear the Chaplain's cross of the USAF Chaplain Corps. 

There is a rich history and legacy that we have.  Part of the 60th Anniversary of the CAP Chaplain Corps observances is the printing of our history.  Check out the 2010 issues of the Transmitter for the on-going series of articles relating to the CAP Chaplain Corps:  http://members.gocivilairpatrol.com/cap_national_hq/chaplain_corps/chaplain_newsletter.cfm. 

It is interesting to note that CAP Chaplain Corps was something in the heart and mind of CAP's founder: Gill Robb Wilson.

[RADIOMAN015]

Guys, seriously, I like talking uniform minutia as much as the next guy, but with 20+ things on the agenda and all the other nonsense going on, the only thing anyone here cares about is a ribbon the majority of members won't or can't wear?

We have met the enemy and he is us...

Again more nonsense -- The Army allows their veterans/retirees to wear their medals/ribbons on uniforms of patriot organizations.  I think CAP could be considered a patriotic organization and the white shirt/grey pants meets that standard.

Frankly, IF CAP is so scared to ask the AF if we can wear our "earned" military ribbons on a CAP "patriotic uniforms" aka white aviator shirt, perhaps collectively we can approach our congressional representatives and mentioned about the disparity in the various service regulations and get a consistent law applied to all.

But hey the NB has to fill up it's agenda with something doesn't it   Looks to me like the paid professional staff needs to go to work on this one via "back channels" :angel:
RM 

[ZigZag911]

As far as the Deacon...I understand your concern about all the work that he has done to get to the level he has reached.  I also appreciate that.  I don't have a good answer for you as to why he can't be a chaplain in CAP.  I know that is an unsatisfying answer and I apologize that I can't do better. 

CAP chaplains need to be recognized by one of the same denominational "endorsing agencies" that certify ordained ministers (priests, rabbis, imams) for the regular military.

For the Catholic Church that endorsing agency is the Archdiocese for the Military Services, based in Washington, DC. Essentially, the Archdiocese only approves priests as military chaplains, probably because of the limitations that the Catholic Church places on the deacon's role (cannot offer Mass, hear confessions, serve as pastor of a parish, and so forth).

Permanent Deacons are recruited from local dioceses and approved to assist on specific military bases.

[cap235629]

For the Catholic Church that endorsing agency is the Archdiocese for the Military Services, based in Washington, DC. Essentially, the Archdiocese only approves priests as military chaplains, probably because of the limitations that the Catholic Church places on the deacon's role (cannot offer Mass, hear confessions, serve as pastor of a parish, and so forth).

Permanent Deacons are recruited from local dioceses and approved to assist on specific military bases.

even a lay person can serve as a Pastor of a Catholic Parish.  If a Deacon or a lay person serves as a Pastor there is a Priest assigned as a Sacramental Minister.

[ZigZag911]

A lay person can not serve as pastor or administrator of a Catholic parish.

There may be a lay business administrator; there may be a lay person serving as a 'pastoral associate' or some similar title, helping the priest in charge...but, even if he is not resident in the parish, somewhere a priest is assigned as pastor of the parish.

[cap235629]

deleted, sorry, I quoted something that wasn't correct or easy to understand

[spacecommand]

Anyone know the dates for the upcoming Winter National Boards in DC ?

Thanks

From the NationalCapital Wing Calendar, March 2-5 2011.
http://www.natcapwg.cap.gov/calendar

[arajca]

In my notes to my wing/cc, I included my original proposal and asked him to consider bringing it up as an alternative item.

[ZigZag911]

I agree with RiverAux, we should be reducing the number & scope of 'special' & '' appointments...it has gotten totally out of hand, IMHO!

It would help if the requirement that the member be contributing in the field of expertise were strictly enforced.

Why haven't we used the advanced grade as an incentive to retention rather than recruiting That is, after 1-2 years doing the job in a lower grade (say 2 Lt), then offer accelerated advancement to various area experts.