Quote from: SarDragon on June 24, 2014, 02:08:30 AM
Help me out here. Where is the specific reference that someone was actually wearing improper insignia?

Second post from the top.

Quote from: abdsp51 on June 24, 2014, 02:17:22 AM

Quote from: SarDragon on June 24, 2014, 02:08:30 AM
Help me out here. Where is the specific reference that someone was actually wearing improper insignia?

Second post from the top.

Hmmm....

Quote from: Cadetter on June 23, 2014, 01:02:56 AM
One of my favorite CS articles, on the "tradition" topic... http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000154.html

Neither the post nor the linked article mention this.

Quote from: lordmonar on June 23, 2014, 01:04:33 AM
Appointing a cadet to the position of Encampment Command Chief is allowed.

Giving said cadet a special insignia is not allowed.

This is merely conjecture, or perhaps a paraphrasing of the reg. Where's the specific instance that special insignia were worn?

Asked here:

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=19011.msg348446#msg348446

.. answered in the next post.

Quote from: abdsp51 on June 24, 2014, 01:43:31 AM
If unauthorized insignia was used then something should be done.  But why not create it for such a purpose?

Because a) there is no need.  b) If you are awarding a discretionary/temporary grade insignia to the Command Cheif......why not make all the flight commanders 1st Lts.....even the ones who are MSgts?   And all the Squadron commanders Majors and the C/CC a full Col?

Like I said I got no problem with appointing a C/CMSgt to the top NCO position.....and call it what ever you want.....just don't put no stars on their insignia.

Quote from: Eclipse on June 23, 2014, 10:27:16 PM
No one in CAP is allowed to direct another member to violate regulations at any time, for any reason.

>Is 15 degrees(f)
>Blues night
>My cadets only have the minimum basic service uniform(short sleeve)
>"FFFFFF[...]"
>"Sorry, but I can't direct you direct you to wear a jacket that isn't in 39-1, but it would also be negligent for you to be here without appropriate attire; go home until summer. Same goes for the ten of you without jackets. Sorry you're poor."

I had an interesting discussion RE: "just following orders" last month in CharDev. The topic centered around the whole idea of "JFO". All of my cadet officers were sitting in the back row and each of them said they would have no problem telling a SM or higher ranking cadet "no" to an order they thought would be hazing/dangerous and/or in clear violation of regs. Through the discussion it came out the there was a clear split in the room on the subject in that the cadet officers were the only ones that felt like they could actually (justifiably) refuse an order or stand up to someone of higher rank. Everyone else, including the older cadets felt like they would just follow orders even if they felt something was wrong.

Just something to think about...

Quote from: SarDragon on June 24, 2014, 02:27:49 AM

Quote from: abdsp51 on June 24, 2014, 02:17:22 AM

Quote from: SarDragon on June 24, 2014, 02:08:30 AM
Help me out here. Where is the specific reference that someone was actually wearing improper insignia?

Second post from the top.

Hmmm....

Quote from: Cadetter on June 23, 2014, 01:02:56 AM
One of my favorite CS articles, on the "tradition" topic... http://archive.cadetstuff.org/archives/000154.html

Neither the post nor the linked article mention this.

Quote from: lordmonar on June 23, 2014, 01:04:33 AM
Appointing a cadet to the position of Encampment Command Chief is allowed.

Giving said cadet a special insignia is not allowed.

This is merely conjecture, or perhaps a paraphrasing of the reg. Where's the specific instance that special insignia were worn?

I thought that I was the only one who missed it, but it is there. I've got to agree with Lordmonar on this one. Sure give them the title, but don't go screwing around with insignia. I'd love to see the job descrition for this as well.

Page 2 of this thread.

Quote from: Eclipse on June 24, 2014, 01:51:30 PM
Page 2 of this thread.

Thanks. I kind of glazed over after the war crimes discussion began...

If people really want, they can petition NHQ to make a "C/CCMSgt" insignia. Pigs would fly before it would happen, but there is nothing stopping them from making a petition.

Quote from: TexasCadet on June 24, 2014, 08:19:28 PM
If people really want, they can petition NHQ to make a "C/CCMSgt" insignia. Pigs would fly before it would happen, but there is nothing stopping them from making a petition.

To what ends? What would be the purpose?

The purpose would be when NHQ rejects their idea, maybe the people will finally give up the idea of a different insignia.

Quote from: TexasCadet on June 24, 2014, 08:32:38 PM
The purpose would be when NHQ rejects their idea, maybe the people will finally give up the idea of a different insignia.

They already have, in fact pretty vehemently, and for the better part of two decades.

Then why do people still try to have insignia that is against regulation? If an encampment has an insignia that is not approved, what kind of example are they setting for all the cadets they are supposed to be training?

Quote from: TexasCadet on June 24, 2014, 08:50:37 PM
Then why do people still try to have insignia that is against regulation? If an encampment has an insignia that is not approved, what kind of example are they setting for all the cadets they are supposed to be training?

Now, you're getting it - that's why so many of us get "bunched" - it's one thing when Podunk Composite, disconnected from
leadership makes poor choices, or does things "off the books", but encampments are supposed to be as close to "textbook CAP"
as you can get, and the examples set taken back to the Podunk Squadrons to "set things right" (not that it usually works).

Encampment Commanders should endeavor to "stay on book" - speaking from direct experience, there's always somebody saying
"...wouldn't it be cool if..." and all you need to do is say "yes, but it's not allowed" and move on, instead we have little "leaks"
from the regs all over the place, and people saying "what's the big deal"...

Is there an official definition for what a "C/CCMSgt" does?

Quote from: TexasCadet on June 24, 2014, 09:22:21 PM
Is there an official definition for what a "C/CCMSgt" does?

Evidently there is one for this encampment....it is in one of the posts in this thread.

Basicly it is to assist the C/CC and ride herd on the lower level NCO's.

Quote from: lordmonar on June 24, 2014, 09:25:37 PM

Quote from: TexasCadet on June 24, 2014, 09:22:21 PM
Is there an official definition for what a "C/CCMSgt" does?

Evidently there is one for this encampment....it is in one of the posts in this thread.

Basicly it is to assist the C/CC and ride herd on the lower level NCO's.

I mean, has NHQ put out an official definition? Also, what does "ride herd" mean?

A) Why do we need to have NHQ weigh in on this at all?
B) They use official language....but it boils down to working with the subordinate NCO's doing their jobs.

Here is the repost.

Quote from: Eclipse on June 23, 2014, 10:57:56 PM
Based on the encampment's publicly available guide: https://www.dropbox.com/s/i74r5fb76fyalim/2014%20Pre-Encampment%20Guide.pdf


The position is just the First Shirt, why they need the affectation of "C/CCMsgt" is beyond me, but nothing wrong, really,
with the description of duties.

"9.5 Command Chief Master Sergeant- The Command Chief Master Sergeant (CCMSgt) is responsible
for ensuring that the NCOs of the Encampment are familiar with their duties and responsibilities. The
Command Chief reports to the C/CC, representing the interests of the staff cadet NCOs"