High Altitude Balloons and APRS

[Major Lord]

I thought you might want to see what some Canadian folks have been doing with High Altitude Balloons. I received this because they used the APRS transmitters that my company makes, but the photos are awesome! CAP should be more involved in near-space balloon experiments!

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/balloon-in-space/ordinary-guys-send-picture+taking-balloon-2227-miles-high-293245.php

Major Lord

[♠SARKID♠]

CAP should be more involved in near-space balloon experiments!

One squadron (that I know of) already is.  Check out the March/April 2007 edition of the Volunteer magazine pg 18-19 (http://www.cap.gov/documents/CAP_Volunteer_MarApr_2007_lores.pdf).

A squadron has been building and launching its own high altitude baloons as part of their AE program.  They've been doing similar things as the Canadians you're talking about with taking pictures, weather readings, etc.  They even attach an ELT so that they can do a training mission and find the balloon afterwards. 

[♠SARKID♠]

I retract that last post, seeing as theres a thread for it, and you've already posted there.   

[Major Lord]

For some reason, I could not download that .Pdf file, but I think it was probably the article about the Cap n Space program. I donated a tracking transmitter and a tracking "beacon" transmitter to them. Good guys out there, and a great website!

Major Lord

[♠SARKID♠]

http://www.cap.gov/visitors/news/civil_air_patrol_volunteer/downloads/

March-April issue, Page 18

[NIN]

http://www.capnspace.org

[CadetProgramGuy]

Major Lord,

Iowa is on track for a January  - start building date, with launch in the fall of 08.  FYI

[Major Lord]

Do you happen to know who is the lead on that? I would like to discuss donating some gear with them.

Major Lord

[CadetProgramGuy]

Do you happen to know who is the lead on that? I would like to discuss donating some gear with them.

Major Lord

Yeah....Me

[Maj Ballard]

My AEO is working on this as well. PM me if you'd like his contact info.

[CadetProgramGuy]

For those of you working on your own Near Space Project....

1.  What is your primary objective of the flight?
2.  What budget do you have set up?
3. What is your time frame?
4.  How do you plan on incorperating the three CAP missions into your project?

For Iowa

1.  AE Training for the cadets focusing on teamwork and confidence building
2.  about $600, includes every thing for 2 flights
3.  Start building in January, launch in late summer early fall
4. AE - Build the package, CP - Have teh cadets do most of the work, ES - Strap on an ELT and have the GT's hunt it down.

[CadetProgramGuy]

For those of you working on your own Near Space Project....

1.  What is your primary objective of the flight?
2.  What budget do you have set up?
3. What is your time frame?
4.  How do you plan on incorperating the three CAP missions into your project?

For Iowa

1.  AE Training for the cadets focusing on teamwork and confidence building
2.  about $600, includes every thing for 2 flights
3.  Start building in January, launch in late summer early fall
4. AE - Build the package, CP - Have teh cadets do most of the work, ES - Strap on an ELT (Practice Beacon) and have the GT's hunt it down.

Edit Made.

[wingnut]

Actually GUYS

Launching an ELT simulator in a balloon is most definitely in violation of the FCC regulation on using the ELT simulator transmitter "Test Station.

For reference see PAR. 87.521(a) of the FCC rules and regulations

I think if you are using something like that you should consider a device used by Ham's, they are legal on their frequencies.

But hey what do I know, I think its a great idea with other numerous science projects, come to think of it I would like to put my CO in and see how high he can go w/o  O2

[CadetProgramGuy]

Actually GUYS

Launching an ELT simulator in a balloon is most definitely in violation of the FCC regulation on using the ELT simulator transmitter "Test Station.

For reference see PAR. 87.521(a) of the FCC rules and regulations

I think if you are using something like that you should consider a device used by Ham's, they are legal on their frequencies.

But hey what do I know, I think its a great idea with other numerous science projects, come to think of it I would like to put my CO in and see how high he can go w/o  O2

Having a hard time finding 87.521a.  Can you provide link?

[SarDragon]

Is this a title of the US Code, or of the Code of Federal Regulations? Which title? The given info is insufficient to find the cite.

Title 47 CFR covers Telecommunication. Part 87 covers Aviation services,  but there is no section 251a.

Link to CFR.

[Major Lord]

If anyone finds this alleged code, would you mind getting a clarification on what the offense is? I specifically want to know if you can legally activate the ELT after the balloon has landed, rather than run it in flight ( on a high altitude balloon a practice beacon could be detected from 300-400 miles away at altitude) Operating the beacon in flight is not necessary, especially if you are using an APRS (tracking ) transmitter, but allows CAP DF equipped personnel to use it as a fairly realistic training mission.

Major Lord

[♠SARKID♠]

Actually GUYS

Launching an ELT simulator in a balloon is most definitely in violation of the FCC regulation on using the ELT simulator transmitter "Test Station.

For reference see PAR. 87.521(a) of the FCC rules and regulations

I think if you are using something like that you should consider a device used by Ham's, they are legal on their frequencies.

But hey what do I know, I think its a great idea with other numerous science projects, come to think of it I would like to put my CO in and see how high he can go w/o  O2

Don't you love it how the government never publishes ALL of the laws?  They always leave out massive hunks of information.  I did a search and couldn't find it either...

[KC0IEA]

From 47 CFR

PART 87_AVIATION SERVICES

Sec. 87.471  Scope of service.

       (c) Transmissions by emergency locator transmitter (ELT) test
stations must be limited to necessary testing of ELTs and to training
operations related to the use of such transmitters.

[♠SARKID♠]

From 47 CFR

PART 87_AVIATION SERVICES

Sec. 87.471  Scope of service.

       (c) Transmissions by emergency locator transmitter (ELT) test
stations must be limited to necessary testing of ELTs and to training
operations related to the use of such transmitters.

That refers to real ELT's broadcasting on the emergency 121.5Mhz frequency.  Our training beacons are on their own frequency, 121.775Mhz, and are of no concern to that law.  By test stations, it means testing of the actual beacons to make sure they aren't broken, and are going to work in a real emergency.

Also, what you have there is Sec. 87.471, we are trying to get PAR. 87.521(a)

[SarDragon]

As I said above, there does not appear to be a paragraph with that number.

The reference to "test station" is very vague, and might be interpreted a couple of different ways, although my leaning is toward an avionics shop doing repair work. FWIW, most ELTs I've seen are non-repairable, other than battery replacement. That action does, of course, require testing.

Ball's in your court, wingnut.