Night Emergency Services & Operations

[usafcap1]

via USAF or other civilian companies

[davidsinn]

Is there something wrong with a flashlight? I can see using them for a scanner in an aircraft but ground teams don't need them.

[Eclipse]

They are allowed and pretty much useless for most searches CAP would be involved in.

[N Harmon]

What does a vote for "both" mean?

[Spaceman3750]

I want hand-held FLIR, but at $2k on the low end I don't think that will happen in my lifetime :angel:.

[Flying Pig]

I fly a C206 with NVGs.  Pretty awesome.

[Huey Driver]

I feel like most people here would like seeing a few more FLIR equipped aircraft around, but not NVGs on our aircrews.

[FlyTiger77]

I fly a C206 with NVGs.  Pretty awesome.

I flew Cobras NOE with NVGs. It was a lot of work.

[PA Guy]

I've used them in rough terrain during GT Ops with good results.

[Private Investigator]

What does a vote for "both" mean?

That option is only for Wing Commanders   

[JeffDG]

I feel like most people here would like seeing a few more FLIR equipped aircraft around, but not NVGs on our aircrews.

I concur on NVGs for pilots.  We don't fly anywhere near enough to be "current" with them.

But for Observer/Scanner...there are situations where they would be incredibly useful.

[lordmonar]

Currently we can use NVG's in the back and right seat IIRC.

Are you suggesting we allow our pilots to wear them?
What for?

[Flying Pig]

I fly a C206 with NVGs.  Pretty awesome.

I flew Cobras NOE with NVGs. It was a lot of work.

What generation?  We are the only agency in Central CA that will do night time SARs in the Sierra Mountains.  We have the ANVIS 9 Gen III.  With the Gen IIIs its pretty easy.  Crystal clear image.  I hear the Gen 4s have a 120 degree oval field of view but I havnt flown with them yet.   

I do surveillances with them in the plane at night at 6000ft.  I can see weather coming, have no issues seeing the ground.  Pretty neat being at 4500ft at night and seeing your shadow flying along the ground under you!
Great SA, great for an emergencies.  I flew from Cen Cal to central Utah at night once on a spur of the moment transport flight.  I filed IFR even though it was crystal clear out.  Flying across NV and Souther UT I could see everything.  Without them it was black.  If I had experienced an emergency I had plenty of options.  Without them, I was descending into an abyss.  I could see the airport probably 75 miles out with them.  Without them, I couldn't see anything.  NVGs are just for flying 50ft off the deck at mach 1.  We were doing a night time SAR a couple years back.  We had spent all day searching for two hikers with no luck.  At night we went back up and were searching with the FLIR and NVGs.  We located the lost hikers when one flipped open his cell phone and we saw the light from his screen about 5 miles away.  We turned towards where we had seen it, and when we got to them, located them with the FLIR. They guy wasnt using it to signal.  He had heard the helicopter and was checking his phone to see if he had service yet, which he did not.  The dim light would have never been seen without NVGs and it was only on for a couple seconds.  One thing thats cool, is at night in Fresno CA, I can be flying and see the planes coming in over the ocean and descending into LAX and see them stacked up for approach.  Thats 200 miles away. 

Granted at $13,000 a set, its a little steep for most.  And you dont want to fly with your WalMart night scope. But if you have the right gear they are awesome.
I dont even fly at night without them anymore.  No reason not to have them.  I still maintain my proficiency for regular night flight and can do it just fine.  But when Im working, they are on and down. 

[bosshawk]

Cobras and NVG has to be either Army or Marines and I think that the Army has retired all their Cobras by now.

In VN, we had a thing called Low Light Level TV: mounted on a Huey and using starlight and ambient light at night.  I am told that it worked pretty well, with the occasional tree making life very exciting.  I opted to stay with our Mohawks and SLAR and IR.

[SarDragon]

Cobras and NVG has to be either Army or Marines and I think that the Army has retired all their Cobras by now.

In VN, we had a thing called Low Light Level TV: mounted on a Huey and using starlight and ambient light at night.  I am told that it worked pretty well, with the occasional tree making life very exciting.  I opted to stay with our Mohawks and SLAR and IR.

LLLTV was a dog. It worked OK, when it worked. The P-3 units (AN/AXR-13) spent more time down than up. The sensor was more fragile than Grandma's china, and only one in three arrived from supply in a usable condition. At $10,000 per sensor, it was a VERY expensive system to maintain. It didn't last long, and was replaced by an IR system.

[FlyTiger77]

I fly a C206 with NVGs.  Pretty awesome.

I flew Cobras NOE with NVGs. It was a lot of work.

What generation?

We flew -6s in the early '90s. Granted, they were much better than night unaided, but the workload from the back seat of an -F model Cobra in an NOE environment (with altitudes ranging from the top of the grass to the top of the trees) was pretty high. It was neat in a lot of ways, too, though.

There were two tall radio towers--one in Texasville, AL about 50 miles to the NE and one in Crestview, FL about 80 miles to the southwest. Under the goggles, they stood out like searchlights. If you were ever confused about your location, you could do a quick resection from those and get a pretty good idea of where you were.

Cobras and NVG has to be either Army or Marines and I think that the Army has retired all their Cobras by now.

Yes, all the Cobras are gone now. I am really too young to have my aircraft (UH-1H and AH-1) relegated to museums. Aren't I?

[SarDragon]

Yes, all the Cobras are gone now. I am really too young to have my aircraft (UH-1H and AH-1) relegated to museums. Aren't I?

Nope. I don't think any of the services are using single-engine H-1s of any flavor. And just think, the UH-1N is a 40+ year olde platform, too.   

[Flying Pig]

My unit got a Navy HH-1N from the Navy......1972 model!  And Im told shes one of the newer ones.  But sadly her days of flying are probably over.  Whoever flew her last roasted both engines and the combining gear box needs overhauled.  $2.5 million at least.   

[FlyTiger77]

My unit got a Navy HH-1N from the Navy......1972 model!  And Im told shes one of the newer ones.  But sadly her days of flying are probably over.  Whoever flew her last roasted both engines and the combining gear box needs overhauled.  $2.5 million at least.   

I think I flew a 1962 model UH-1H back in 1990. There was something odd about flying a helicopter that was older than me. If I recall, it had over 30,000 hours on the airframe.

[Flying Pig]

Ours only has 10,400.  The Navy retires them at max 12,500.  I fly a UH-1 Super B off duty that is a 1962...1964ish if I recall.  The owner has all the records.  It was actually shot down 4 separate times in Vietnam, repaired and put back into service.  The current owner bought it through surplus in the late 70s early 80s and has been flying Ag in it ever since.  But its a B model with the 1400 shp T53 L13.  Plenty of power.

[bosshawk]

A B model Huey with an L13 in it should be a rocket ship.  Of course, saying that any Huey is a rocket ship is almost beyond imagination.  You can put a rocket on a pig, but it's still a pig.

[ol'fido]

When I ETS'd in '92, 25th ID had a mix of UH=1s and UH-60s. There were no Apaches yet. We were still flying the AH-1s with the mini-gun/grenade launcher turret.

[ProdigalJim]

A B model Huey with an L13 in it should be a rocket ship.  Of course, saying that any Huey is a rocket ship is almost beyond imagination.  You can put a rocket on a pig, but it's still a pig.

Many years ago, I had a chance to go try out a re-engined Huey at Fort Rucker...GE was trying to get a program launched to re-engine bunches of Hueys with T700s. That particular "pig" had quite a lot of giddyup. They never did do the program, though...

[NIN]

When I ETS'd in '92, 25th ID had a mix of UH=1s and UH-60s. There were no Apaches yet. We were still flying the AH-1s with the mini-gun/grenade launcher turret.

The 7.62 minigun/40mm combo was pretty wicked, wasn't it? We traded S models for F's and ECAS models, and I was not a fan of the 20mm.

Remember kids: when they fly the last UH-60 to the boneyard, they'll fly the crew home in a Huey.

[FlyTiger77]

When I ETS'd in '92, 25th ID had a mix of UH=1s and UH-60s. There were no Apaches yet. We were still flying the AH-1s with the mini-gun/grenade launcher turret.

The 7.62 minigun/40mm combo was pretty wicked, wasn't it? We traded S models for F's and ECAS models, and I was not a fan of the 20mm.

The 20mm on the -F model was a lot of fun to shoot. It was a powerful gun.

I never had a chance to fly with the 7.62mm/40mm, though.

[usafcap1]

What does a vote for "both" mean?

Yes and No (like an Yes we should and No we shouldn't)

[whatevah]

What does a vote for "both" mean?

Yes and No (like an Yes we should and No we shouldn't)

Uhhh... Mind explaining that?

[EMT-83]

http://www.answers.com/topic/chad

[usafcap1]

What does a vote for "both" mean?

Yes and No (like an Yes we should and No we shouldn't)

Uhhh... Mind explaining that?

it means your in the middle, on both sides