I just got my EFJohnson handheld back from being reprogrammed. Haven't had the chance to actually do any talking on the thing yet, and I'm still trying to figure out the numerous new features on the thing (Comm is NOT my strong point, admittadly).

I am glad they put NOAA WX Radio on there though.

When you all set up your radio plans and ask for input, don't just ask the comm people, those that are into this stuff on the technical side. Ask the users (aircrew and GT). You might get some good ideas on how to make this stuff user friendly. My experience is that the comm world gives the users too much useless info that just confuses us non comm types. There are no buttons on my radio that say narrow band, wide band, simplex or complex.

I think one thing we fall short of (for comm) is putting forth enough information and helping everyone differentiating out what is relevent.  One one hand, we need to do a better job of engaging members to be part of the process instead of spectators.  The comm job is going to be much more work intense soon and we need the help.

On the other hand I see a lot of aircrew willing to fly hundreds of hours for the free time and fuel, don't reciprocate very much for learning the radios.  Many of them are the first to go to sleep during the training (or not bother to attend at all).  Another example is the constant complaining that the channel layout is different. 

So...  you can learn how to manually change frequencies on Comm 1 and 2 consecutively during that fully funded check ride, but the complaints come out in force about the extra couple of clicks on the NAT.   Or that you have manually put in three digits for the new CC1 channel in the TDFM?  LOL!  Sorry, you'll have to do a little better than that.

But you do make a great point - to which CAP-DC has put forth work into redoing the training programs accordingly.

We've been telling everyone from the beginning that the narrowband transition will be inherently painful - almost torturous for those managing it. 

But remember that to the basic user, not much will change other than the channel designators. 

And the days of manual frequencies are done.  Don't be surprized.  We've been warning everyone for years about it.  I can't accept the "I didn't know" argument. 

Keep in close contact with your squadron and Wing DC's.  There is a LOT if information available to them.  If they are not being responsive, keep in mind they may be really overworked with the transition.  But in the rare case they've simply "checked out" and are sand bagging - don't give up.  Keep on them until they get you the information you need.  Nothing is going to change unless everyone in CAP takes some ownership and makes it happen.

Quote from: scooter on July 27, 2009, 07:18:05 PM
When you all set up your radio plans and ask for input, don't just ask the comm people, those that are into this stuff on the technical side. Ask the users (aircrew and GT). You might get some good ideas on how to make this stuff user friendly. My experience is that the comm world gives the users too much useless info that just confuses us non comm types. There are no buttons on my radio that say narrow band, wide band, simplex or complex.

Scooter, one hard part in this is the fact that most users really don't get involved.  The most common response on what to do for the interim plan is complete indifference.  It then comes down to just the comm folks arranging the channel plan.  In the NB ttransition, not much changed other than the designations and the addition of about 130 channels for each repeater/tone/mode combinations.

Again, there are a lot of spectators around waiting for someone else to take charge.  My response on that is ...  Fine.  We'll take charge.  But don't complain when the channel plan isn't what you wanted and you didn't get involved when we asked for help.

Quote from: BrandonKea on July 27, 2009, 01:48:46 AM
I just got my EFJohnson handheld back from being reprogrammed. Haven't had the chance to actually do any talking on the thing yet, and I'm still trying to figure out the numerous new features on the thing (Comm is NOT my strong point, admittadly).

I am glad they put NOAA WX Radio on there though.

There shouldn't be any "new" features other than P25 capability.  Did they redo the button functions?  Again, those were all in the radio capability to begin with.

I put the NOAA channels in ours as well.  The EFJ's have way more channels than we'll ever need.  Why not put them to good use?

Quote from: desertengineer1 on July 27, 2009, 08:34:35 PM

Quote from: BrandonKea on July 27, 2009, 01:48:46 AM
I just got my EFJohnson handheld back from being reprogrammed. Haven't had the chance to actually do any talking on the thing yet, and I'm still trying to figure out the numerous new features on the thing (Comm is NOT my strong point, admittadly).

I am glad they put NOAA WX Radio on there though.

There shouldn't be any "new" features other than P25 capability.  Did they redo the button functions?  Again, those were all in the radio capability to begin with.

I put the NOAA channels in ours as well.  The EFJ's have way more channels than we'll ever need.  Why not put them to good use?

Tons of "New to me" features. Before it was very lacking, now I have a backlight toggle button, the orange button has been designated as the keypad lockout button, I have a menu button with scan options and OTAR key? Whatever that is... And about 8 zones with a butt ton of channels that I assume are just ALL of the standard channels instead of the NEWG only ones...

A few Comm. thoughts from our recent SAREVAL Comm Plan:

• Instructing everyone to monitor GUARD 1 was a huge success.  Especially in the aircraft.  (Harder to do with the EFJ's.)  "When in doubt try Guard 1."  There are obvious limitations with simplex, but it was very useful.
• Asking everyone to mention which channel they were on was also helpful.  It was eaier to answer them when we knew which channel they were on (6 radios running in the comm shack).
• Using Skype texting as a back channel between bases failed miserably.  Even with alert volume up high, it simply didn't compete with the other noise in the shack.
• We were instructed to conduct a roll call every half hour.  We told everyone to contact us no matter what by the one hour mark, even if it meant landing and using a phone or text messaging us.  Comm isn't just radios.  We had limited need for that procedure.

So, those lessons will be mirrored in our standing comm plan.  Fortunately what started at the squadron level is now a Group level thing, and possibly a wing thing soon.  :-) 

Quote from: BrandonKea on July 28, 2009, 08:19:34 AM

Quote from: desertengineer1 on July 27, 2009, 08:34:35 PM

Quote from: BrandonKea on July 27, 2009, 01:48:46 AM
I just got my EFJohnson handheld back from being reprogrammed. Haven't had the chance to actually do any talking on the thing yet, and I'm still trying to figure out the numerous new features on the thing (Comm is NOT my strong point, admittadly).

I am glad they put NOAA WX Radio on there though.

There shouldn't be any "new" features other than P25 capability.  Did they redo the button functions?  Again, those were all in the radio capability to begin with.

I put the NOAA channels in ours as well.  The EFJ's have way more channels than we'll ever need.  Why not put them to good use?

Tons of "New to me" features. Before it was very lacking, now I have a backlight toggle button, the orange button has been designated as the keypad lockout button, I have a menu button with scan options and OTAR key? Whatever that is... And about 8 zones with a butt ton of channels that I assume are just ALL of the standard channels instead of the NEWG only ones...

OTAR = Over The Air Rekeying. It's an ecryption function. It lets the radio receive an new encryption key through a radio transmission instead of hooking up a cable.

Quote from: arajca on July 28, 2009, 09:42:42 PM

Quote from: BrandonKea on July 28, 2009, 08:19:34 AM

Quote from: desertengineer1 on July 27, 2009, 08:34:35 PM

Quote from: BrandonKea on July 27, 2009, 01:48:46 AM
I just got my EFJohnson handheld back from being reprogrammed. Haven't had the chance to actually do any talking on the thing yet, and I'm still trying to figure out the numerous new features on the thing (Comm is NOT my strong point, admittadly).

I am glad they put NOAA WX Radio on there though.

There shouldn't be any "new" features other than P25 capability.  Did they redo the button functions?  Again, those were all in the radio capability to begin with.

I put the NOAA channels in ours as well.  The EFJ's have way more channels than we'll ever need.  Why not put them to good use?

Tons of "New to me" features. Before it was very lacking, now I have a backlight toggle button, the orange button has been designated as the keypad lockout button, I have a menu button with scan options and OTAR key? Whatever that is... And about 8 zones with a butt ton of channels that I assume are just ALL of the standard channels instead of the NEWG only ones...

OTAR = Over The Air Rekeying. It's an ecryption function. It lets the radio receive an new encryption key through a radio transmission instead of hooking up a cable.

Sooo note to self, don't touch that! :-)

Quote from: wuzafuzz on July 28, 2009, 01:36:11 PM
A few Comm. thoughts from our recent SAREVAL Comm Plan:

• Instructing everyone to monitor GUARD 1 was a huge success.  Especially in the aircraft.  (Harder to do with the EFJ's.)  "When in doubt try Guard 1."  There are obvious limitations with simplex, but it was very useful.
• Asking everyone to mention which channel they were on was also helpful.  It was eaier to answer them when we knew which channel they were on (6 radios running in the comm shack).
• Using Skype texting as a back channel between bases failed miserably.  Even with alert volume up high, it simply didn't compete with the other noise in the shack.
• We were instructed to conduct a roll call every half hour.  We told everyone to contact us no matter what by the one hour mark, even if it meant landing and using a phone or text messaging us.  Comm isn't just radios.  We had limited need for that procedure.

Excellent to note that "GUARD 1" worked.  I'm pushing for a requirement in our wing that no matter when a CAP aircraft is flying, even on the member's dime, that they be required to monitor the new GUARD 1.  Compliance would be check by select radio stations within the wing.

Interesting you ran 6 radios in your comm center, rather than using scanning on VHF.  Could you talk a bit more about your radio plan (e.g. assuming intrasquad radios for wireless mission base staff, intrasquad/VHF portables mission base/flight line ops, repeaters for ground team, VHF CAP air/ground, & VHF CAP Guard?, and perhaps an airband multicom transceiver?). 

Could you clarify your comment on skype NOT working because of?

It's typical to have 1/2 hour check ins by aircraft & ground teams.  Agree Check ins don't necessarily mean by radio, it can be by cellphone or even msg text/email.  I personally would like to see CAP relax a stance on allowing text msg while in flight.  I think that this may be a very good "opsec" "comsec" method of sensitive information delivery.  Even if it's a one way receive method from mission base to aircraft, with the aircraft acknowleding the message number via voice on the air/ground circuit.

GREAT WORK :clap:
RM
       

Off the top of my head (it's lunch time at work):

Using our linked repeaters, we separated the state into two nets.

• We ran one radio on the closest linked repeater, talking to the half of the state we were in.
• Another radio dedicated to GUARD 1.  This was useful for radio checks since aircraft and ground teams had a tough time hitting the repeater from the airport.
• Another radio on the old V1, just in case.  We set it on CC1 at times, which was our primary simplex.
• An airband radio.
• An ISR for ICP comms.
• One state trunked radio that connected into our CAP repeaters in the OTHER half of the state.
• One state trunked radio that stood apart from the CAP repeater.  Back channel between ICP and remote bases.

We chose dedicated radios over scanning for a few reasons:
1.  Added complexity for the unknown MRO factor.
2.  Although we briefed everyone to state which channel they were talking on, we knew it wouldn't happen (this was our first major exercise using the new channel plan).
3.  If we scan, we will miss traffic when other channels are busy.
4.  We requested enough MRO's so no one would have to work more than two channels.  We had MSA's for notes.

I would love to tell you that item #4 worked as planned, but several of us could have kept busy with a few extra arms.

Regarding Skype:  it was loud as heck in the Comm Shack.  Air Ops and Ground Ops were in the same small room.  We had to shout them down a few times.  We just didn't hear Skype alerts.  I believe Comm should have it's own room, but I am routinely out-voted on that count.

The use of state trunked radios might raise a few eyebrows.  Our biggest use was merely to connect to the linked CAP repeaters we couldn't reach while the network was split in two.  Much like you might use a tone remote base or microwave shot.  The other trunked radio was merely a backchannel between bases, kind of like a long distance ISR. 

Arguably we could do much the same using HF.  Our (and my) HF capabilities are in need of improvement.  Since I had less than a month to plan Comm for the SAREVAL (as a CUL-T I might add), trunked liaison radios won.

So, our entire CAP radio system was heavily tasked.  Liaison radios were not used in lieu of CAP radios, but in addition to them and to enhance them.

I did try HF and want to get better with it.