VSAF discussed on CAP News Online & base papers

[Eclipse]

"This represents a change in history. It may become an everyday occurrence to see Civil Air Patrol uniforms on Air Force installations."

((*sigh*))

The rest is here:

http://www.cap.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=display&nodeID=6192&newsID=3956

[SJFedor]

I like that Randolph used our "US Air Force Auxiliary" command patch, instead of the "Civil Air Patrol" one.

But I don't like how Brig. Gen. Courter was wearing the blazer combo at the Wright/Patt meeting. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

Frankly, I think they are letting their mouths write checks that we may not cash.

I am not sure how many members will volunteer to purchase a dorky-looking uniform to work at non-challenging low-level jobs on base for free.

If I wanted to work at a non-challenging, low-level task while wearing dorky clothes I could work for big bucks as a Wal-Mart greeter. 

[JayT]

I like that Randolph used our "US Air Force Auxiliary" command patch, instead of the "Civil Air Patrol" one.

But I don't like how Brig. Gen. Courter was wearing the blazer combo at the Wright/Patt meeting. 

Why? It's a proper service uniform,  no?

[Gunner C]

I like that Randolph used our "US Air Force Auxiliary" command patch, instead of the "Civil Air Patrol" one.

But I don't like how Brig. Gen. Courter was wearing the blazer combo at the Wright/Patt meeting. 

Why? It's a proper service uniform,  no?

::::Sigh:::::

Another person who doesn't get it.

As one of my commanders lamented:  "It's not how you play, it's how you look."  She looks like one of the bag sisters:  rag and duffel.  If she looked sharp, it would be one thing, but she looks like crap!  And so does that uniform.  (Looks like we belong to the AFA instead of CAP).

We're only part of the "Air Force Team" when the politician (read: SecAF) makes a speech and when the AF senior officer has to say something nice to us at a wing conference because he's been assigned to do it (not always - there are exceptions - but mostly).  What you see here is what the AF really thinks of us and what they'd like to reduce us to.

Why do you think that the CAP-USAF officers are there?  Do you think they are the up-and-comers in the AF?  Nope - they were guys who weren't good enough to get a squadron command so they get us.  (Thanks for playing - here's a copy of our home game).  By the time they get to their duty assignment, they've had an opportunity to get over the shock of how close their careers came to being over - at least the O-5's will be able to retire, maybe the O-4's.  Nope, the AF only plays with us because it's the law.

I've seen it before - the Army really hated Special Forces, so in the late 1970s they reduced us to a pool for helping to run Ft Bragg.  We showed up in the morning and were loaned out for a day or up to three months at a time to run something.  I spent one summer as a life guard.  Other times, we went to do the gardening at a general's house.  Other guys ran fitness centers.  If it hadn't been for Ronald Reagan, we would have been done for.  The only thing that saved us was a bill in congress that separated the Special Operations budget from the other services.  We (CAP) wouldn't have a dime if we didn't have friends in the house and senate.

Everyone wants to do cool stuff - like fly in planes, find lost people, and wait for the HLS mission (that ain't gonna come).  No one wants to be part of something that hands out towels at the gym.  That's why they don't have airmen doing it.

GC

[mikeylikey]

The new shirt is terrible.  It looks like someone fell in a pool and decided not to change clothes. 

I like how we still have no real "this is exactly what CAP will be doing". 

The pictures were even worse than my 20 year old Polaroid insta-appear camera takes. 

What the heck.  We were told we were not going to use Rank in the VSAF program, yet they throw it all around for the "BIG-wigs (courter, etc).

I actually thought I would throw-up.  Good thing I didn't or I would have ruined another keyboard.   

[Conical]

If you don't like the uniform, don't wear it!  If you don't likje the new mission, don't participate.  There is nothing in this world that is forcing you to do so.

[mikeylikey]

If you don't like the uniform, don't wear it!  If you don't likje the new mission, don't participate.  There is nothing in this world that is forcing you to do so.

No need to worry there Colonel, I think it is DOA. 

[sardak]

But I don't like how Brig. Gen. Courter was wearing the blazer combo at the Wright/Patt meeting.

(Looks like we belong to the AFA instead of CAP).

Wearing the blazer emphasizes that CAP members will be participating as the civilian Auxiliary of the Air Force, i.e. CAP, Inc.  The part of CAP that many seem not to like.  The general's only other choice would have been the new VSAF uniform, but given the others are in coat and tie, the blazer was the correct choice.

Mike

[SamFranklin]

Why do you think that the CAP-USAF officers are there?  Do you think they are the up-and-comers in the AF?  Nope - they were guys who weren't good enough to get a squadron command so they get us.  (Thanks for playing - here's a copy of our home game).  By the time they get to their duty assignment, they've had an opportunity to get over the shock of how close their careers came to being over - at least the O-5's will be able to retire, maybe the O-4's.  Nope, the AF only plays with us because it's the law.

Sir, are you aware of how far short you fall of our Core Value of Respect? I think comments like this are disgraceful. Maybe mine is a minority view on this board, but among honorable people it is not.

[RiverAux]

Frankly, I think they are letting their mouths write checks that we may not cash.

Well, the one unit they're dealing with on a huge base (Randolph) says they identified 15 specific duties and the article says over 20 CAP members in the very local area expressed an interest. 

He said staff has identified 15 possible positions for CAP volunteers to fill,
including three administrative support slots and six skilled positions in civil
engineering, from interior design to environmental science. In addition, five volunteer opportunities are available in services.
"Our greatest need is in administrative support," Colonel Burns said, "but
we will try to employ the volunteers' particular skills sets. If they come and
want to give, we will do everything we can to accommodate them."

[Short Field]

Sir, are you aware of how far short you fall of our Core Value of Respect? I think comments like this are disgraceful. Maybe mine is a minority view on this board, but among honorable people it is not.

Thank You Sir!

[Ricochet13]

Actually we're looking forward to VSAF being expanded to our area.  We already have a good working relationship with the local base and this is going to be another good chance to help. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

I like that Randolph used our "US Air Force Auxiliary" command patch, instead of the "Civil Air Patrol" one.

But I don't like how Brig. Gen. Courter was wearing the blazer combo at the Wright/Patt meeting. 

Why? It's a proper service uniform,  no?

::::Sigh:::::

Another person who doesn't get it.

As one of my commanders lamented:  "It's not how you play, it's how you look."  She looks like one of the bag sisters:  rag and duffel.  If she looked sharp, it would be one thing, but she looks like crap!  And so does that uniform.  (Looks like we belong to the AFA instead of CAP).

We're only part of the "Air Force Team" when the politician (read: SecAF) makes a speech and when the AF senior officer has to say something nice to us at a wing conference because he's been assigned to do it (not always - there are exceptions - but mostly).  What you see here is what the AF really thinks of us and what they'd like to reduce us to.

Why do you think that the CAP-USAF officers are there?  Do you think they are the up-and-comers in the AF?  Nope - they were guys who weren't good enough to get a squadron command so they get us.  (Thanks for playing - here's a copy of our home game).  By the time they get to their duty assignment, they've had an opportunity to get over the shock of how close their careers came to being over - at least the O-5's will be able to retire, maybe the O-4's.  Nope, the AF only plays with us because it's the law.

I've seen it before - the Army really hated Special Forces, so in the late 1970s they reduced us to a pool for helping to run Ft Bragg.  We showed up in the morning and were loaned out for a day or up to three months at a time to run something.  I spent one summer as a life guard.  Other times, we went to do the gardening at a general's house.  Other guys ran fitness centers.  If it hadn't been for Ronald Reagan, we would have been done for.  The only thing that saved us was a bill in congress that separated the Special Operations budget from the other services.  We (CAP) wouldn't have a dime if we didn't have friends in the house and senate.

Everyone wants to do cool stuff - like fly in planes, find lost people, and wait for the HLS mission (that ain't gonna come).  No one wants to be part of something that hands out towels at the gym.  That's why they don't have airmen doing it.

GC

Gunner:

I'm gonna agree with you in part.  The slam at the CAP-USAF guys is not currently accurate, but certainly was the case at one time, back in the 1980's.  Assignment to CAP then was sort of like a Mafia "Kiss of death" to your career.

IF the USAF had a lot of actual jobs to do, the program might be a "Go."  The fact that they are finding jobs for CAP guys in Services, however tells me a lot.  They certainly DON'T want a guy wearing Lt Col rank in a USAF uniform being a caddy to an airman at the golf course.

 

[RiverAux]

Keep in mind that almost half the positions identified in the quote earlier are professional positions where an officer rank would be entirely appropriate. 

[JohnKachenmeister]

This is true, and if the program was limited to those positions and duties that were not inconsistent with officer rank, I might have more of a warm fuzzy feeling for this idea. 

My reluctance to accept the idea of the VSAF as currently presented boils down to 3 issues:

1.  We have only a vague idea of how it will be administered, and what tasks are going to be assigned to CAP members.  If you have a plan, why don't you want to tell us what it is?  And, conversely, if you don't have a plan, a news release announcing the program is premature.

2.  About half of the tasks that have been identified appear to be menial labor.  As Gunner and I both pointed out, it is easy to find volunteers for cool jobs.  I really don't know too many people have a burning desire to clean the showers in the base fitness centers as their "Mission for America."

3.  There is no need for a new uniform for this mission.  If you want to have a uniform that does not show CAP rank to reduce the communications interference between VSAF volunteers and junior enlisted, the golf shirt fits the criteria.  There may be some missions out there that use of CAP rank and a chest full of ribbons might be in the interest of the mission.  The local commanders are capable of making that call, and there are enough uniforms, and enough uniform diversity, already in the closet of every CAP member that we don't have to buy a new one every time a new mission pops up.

The fact that the justification for the new uniform also justifies the golf shirt combo, which is already a CAP uniform, makes me suspect that somebody is not dealing with us candidly.

[RiverAux]

We have only a vague idea of how it will be administered, and what tasks are going to be assigned to CAP members.

You're right that we on CAPTalk don't know this, but there is no evidence that it hasn't been addressed in the test program sites themselves.  Quite frankly, there isn't much of a need for the rest of CAP to be getting detailed information on exactly how this is administered.  As a test program it would be premature to send out details to everybody as they might start going off preparing for a way of doing things that might not be the final version. 

2.  About half of the tasks that have been identified appear to be menial labor.  As Gunner and I both pointed out, it is easy to find volunteers for cool jobs.

It doesn't say that at all.  It talks about "service".  Could be answering phones, data entry, and a whole bunch of other possible tasks.  There is no evidence at all, and I think it extremely unlikely, that it will be janitorial duties. 

[mikeylikey]

^ In the AF, "Services" and those like units are the MWR and billeting type things.  I may be mistaken though.  The Services Sqd near me is responsible for billeting, the gym, and other like functions.  Anyone else know better??

[JohnKachenmeister]

^ In the AF, "Services" and those like units are the MWR and billeting type things.  I may be mistaken though.  The Services Sqd near me is responsible for billeting, the gym, and other like functions.  Anyone else know better??

You're right, Mikey.  The release talked about "Services," capital "S," not just service.