VSAF Annoucement

[RAZOR]

John, it is good that you support the museum program and I am glad it is going well for you however lets be realistic here, the "VSAF" program no matter which high profile organization or person is pushing this, the final say so will be the "WING" Commanders at each installation and to be very honest with you it will wind up as you say the "MUSEUM POGRAM".. Sorry to be so blunt..

[RiverAux]

huh? 

[JohnKachenmeister]

John, it is good that you support the museum program and I am glad it is going well for you however lets be realistic here, the "VSAF" program no matter which high profile organization or person is pushing this, the final say so will be the "WING" Commanders at each installation and to be very honest with you it will wind up as you say the "MUSEUM POGRAM".. Sorry to be so blunt..

Huh X 2.

I was merely commenting on the documentation requirements, and giving an example of what we do.

[GPVIIOps]

Straight from the VSAF Program

I am currently working in the VSAF program at Wright-Patterson. So far I have spent two days in the Exercise Planning office and have to tell you it's not what I expected. Like a lot of you I expected to be in a dark basement of some run down building making small stacks out of big stacks of paper with my red Swingline stapler, but it's not like that at all. I am actively participating with the rest of the office staff and they are treating me as if I was either active Air Force or payed civilian employee.

So far I have assisted with the planning of an operational exercise, sat in on meetings with department heads, assisted with logistical support (securing facilities and equipment for the exercise) and provided input for operational planning. They are actually using my training and experience (civilian Firefighter and CAP Operations Planning) as input and incorporating it into the planning, or at least considering my ideas.

The office is very understaffed and are very happy to have the help. I have been treated with nothing but respect instead of the red headed step child of the AF. I think that this is a great program, have nothing but good things to say about it, and plan on spending most of my days off work in the office helping out.

Now I can't speak for all of the people working in the VSAF program (minimal number right now), but so far I have had a great experience. By talking with the AF Major over the office it seams like this can be a win win situation for both the AF and CAP. There are plans in the work to get CAP more involved with base emergency preparedness and training, and I have even had an opportunity to speak with someone from AF Emergency Management who wants to talk about our capabilities and what we can provide to them. Doors are opening already and it's only been two days.

I have been told by members at the top of the VSAF (CAP side) planning staff that the players involved on the AF side of the house were told to make our time spent with them "Meaningful Employment." They know as well as you and I that if people don't like the job they are given, they are not going to do it, and then they are out "free help." CAP may want to throw around buzz words like "Unpaid Professional" but the boys and girls at the top know we are still volunteers.

[GPVIIOps]

Who gets a CAC card and who gets what privileges are directly up to the instillation commander.

Another question; as far as getting more base privileges... those folks in the know/ current/ prior service. What kind of privileges do current volunteers receive? 

I can answer related to the Army side, and a little AF side.  When I was Ft Drum, the civilian volunteers on post were issued CAC cards.  I do believe it was the civilian version with "Volunteer" printed on it.  They received access to the E/NCO Club, and could join if they wanted to.  They also were allowed access to all AAFES activities (including class six), and all MWR activities.

When I was at Ft Knox, there were civilians volunteers there helping with the ROTC Camp, they also received CAC cards to access the networks, and received Post privileges.

The civilian that volunteers in the recruiting office at my local AF Base (who is a neighbor of mine) also has a civilian CAC card, which does not have any GS grade on it, or "volunteer" written on it.  She gets access to everything as well.  I think she is the only volunteer on the base.

I seriously doubt CAP members would get a card or any access to MWR/AAFES activities.  That is a shame!  I still think the VSAF volunteers will be found in the base gym, library, car care center, gas station or Red Cross office.  We shall see. 

[mikeylikey]

^ Did you get a CAC or a base ID card?  Are you allowed to eat at the BX.....what other services can you use that other "paid" employees can use?  Have there been any problems yet?  How were you selected (as in did the Group CC interview you and whatnot)?  Did you have to take any classes?  Was there any training?  Who do you work for (Officer, Enlisted etc), does anyone work with you, does anyone work for you?

Just some questions now that we have our first VSAF'er!!!!

[RiverAux]

Jeez Mikey, way to prioritize your questions (what goodies do you get?  what is messed up with the program? Then some worthwhile questions...)

[Pylon]

Jeez Mikey, way to prioritize your questions (what goodies do you get? ...

Actually, IIRC, Mikey is already a paid minion of Uncle Sam. I highly doubt he's asking those questions from the standpoint of a wannabe jonesing for access to the Class Six.

[GPVIIOps]

--"Did you get a CAC or Base ID card?: No, but this is being discussed. One of the first questions I was asked on day 1 was "Do you have network access?" Question 2: "Do you have e-mail access?" Answer to both was no. Who gets a CAC card is up to each individual instillation commander, CAP National doesn't have any say on that. So National is trying to figure that one out. At the same time the AF VSAF contact on Base is going to be working on it with the base commander. I don't have a lot of answers for this question yet... we just found out it was a problem. But I do see the base doing everything they can to help us out.

--Can I use the BX or other Services: No more or less than I could before as a normal CAP member. Just like the CAC cards, what we can and can not do is up to the instillation commander for the most part. CAP does have regs on it (CAPR 147-1 or AFI 10-2701), but its still up to the base CC. At WPAFB we have never had any problem using facilities like the Gym, AAFES, library, things like that. I know they are working out the exact regs right now.... keep in mind that there are literally two or three people working in the field right now.

--How was I selected?: My Group CC (the CAP local contact for the VSAF) sent out a Group Wide announcement asking for volunteers for the program, asking for CAP and professional resumes and an explanation of the program. Being a small group and the CC knowing pretty much all of us there really wasn't an interview needed. Was I interviewed by the AF? No. I don't think there is a standard for this though, I think the selection process was up to the Group CC.

--Did I take any classes?: No

--Was there any training?: Day 1 with the office was a lot of OJT type stuff. Kind of "This is what we do, how we do it, and how you can help." I don't think there can be a lot of specific training before going in seeing that each office is going to be doing something different.

--Who do you work for/with?: In the office I work for a Active Duty Major. My CAP boss is the Group CC. I work with an Active Capt. and a GS civilian employee. Thats all that they have in the office, like I said they are very understaffed.

Hope I answered all your questions. Just got home from day 3, it was much like the other days. I stayed busy and feel as if I actually was productive for the "team" and utilized well.

^ Did you get a CAC or a base ID card?  Are you allowed to eat at the BX.....what other services can you use that other "paid" employees can use?  Have there been any problems yet?  How were you selected (as in did the Group CC interview you and whatnot)?  Did you have to take any classes?  Was there any training?  Who do you work for (Officer, Enlisted etc), does anyone work with you, does anyone work for you?

Just some questions now that we have our first VSAF'er!!!!

[Ricochet13]

Based on what GPVIIOps has said, I'm encouraged by the VSAF program and how it's developing.  Particularly in how CAP members might be utilized.  Hope it succeeds and is expanded to other USAF installations.

[Murph]

I have to say - hearing that is [darn] encouraging.  It sounds like you're a professional all the way.  All the little meaningless details will work themselves out.

Awesome!!

[Tubacap]

Not having a USAF base around, I hope it spills down into the ANG too.

[GPVIIOps]

I have to tell ya guys, I am pleasantly surprised by what I have been doing and the respect and trust that the AF guys I am working with have given me. One of the first two days I was here they had me "sanity checking" documents they were going to send out and putting together an exercise schedule. The Maj. literally told me what he wanted to see in the schedule for the two day exercise and left it in my hands to make it happen. Here in a few weeks instead of folding towels as I thought I might be doing, I will be in the field with them assisting with the exercise I am helping to plan.

This is why I got into CAP in the first place (other than the fact that I was 15 and thought it was cool to wear cammies), to help out the AF. I didn't sign up for this program looking to get cheep beer at the class 6, but to help out the AF in what little way I can since I am not Active Duty anymore. And I honestly think I am doing that. I just hope that my little experience and small amount of information can encourage you to sign up as well. 

[Timothy]

Glad you are having such a nice time and actually able to seriously contribute. I just wouldn't have the time available to volunteer and be effective.. but there will always be someone who can.

So are they going to have you wear khakis and a polo shirt to a field exercise? 

[GPVIIOps]

That was my thought. I had to write up a report to my Group CC after my first week, and that was one of my concerns... the VSAF uniform in the field. In the report I made sure to make a point that this uniform wouldn't provide me adequate protection from the elements (Still cold and wet here in Ohio) and wouldn't be safe. It also wouldn't be particle at all. So the Group CC contacted the National VSAF guy who talked to all the other big shots and gave me a "go" on BDU's, but without rank on them. Believe it or not, they even offered to send me another BDU top if I didn't have an extra one or didn't want to buy one!   

[mikeylikey]

So the Group CC contacted the National VSAF guy who talked to all the other big shots and gave me a "go" on BDU's, but without rank on them. Believe it or not, they even offered to send me another BDU top if I didn't have an extra one or didn't want to buy one!   

And that is where I wash my hands with CAP.  They push rank and grade for everything, then say when working with the AF.....you don't wear it.  Then here is the legal solution.  They give a contractor ID card, and put you in the freaking Civilian version of the BDU/ABU. 

We need to write some letters here and either all go for getting rid of our rank and grade in CAP, or tell them we want changes.  Is anyone else sick at what is happening?

Maybe I will be back next week.   

[RiverAux]

Okay, maybe we should require CAP-USAF members to remove their rank when they attend a CAP exercise so that our people don't confuse them with real CAP officers.... 

[Tubacap]

Nice gentlemen, on the real side of life, congratulations to those able to participate in the VSAF program.  I definitely hope it expands, and thanks for the update.  It is outstanding that you are getting to do real work for the USAF.  Having more substantive real work to do may cut down on the amount of uniform issues in the long run.

[SAR-EMT1]

I definately hope it expands to the ANG. - Since thats what Im near-
aside from that, Great job to those participating and I hope that the uniform issue is resolved to include the wearing of our usual uniforms. (With rank) Either that or get the contractor sets.

Personally... I dont understand why the wearing of Gray rank slides on Blues, or Ultramarine backed rank on BDUs would cause the USAF to have a problem. However, I bow to their wishes and will simply state that in a sense Im used to it from my time in the CGAux. ( We wear the CG Crest in place of rank when augmenting) ... maybe an embroidered CAP Triangle and Prop (Or the AF Shield and Eagle) would work for us. Dont know...

[JohnKachenmeister]

Well, I guess this is a personal problem.

I soldiered for my rank.  I earned it the hard way, up from the enlisted grades through OCS.  I was an E-1 when I enlisted, a staff sergeant when I got commissioned, and a major when I retired.

My rank, my ribbons, and my gray hairs... I earned 'em, I wear 'em!