Internships for cadets, TFOs and young SMs through local aviation association

[skaha]

Our Group is currently considering moving forward with a proposed program whereby local aviation businesses would offer internships for 1) cadets 18 and older, 2) flight officers, and 3) young senior members.  The local business aviation association likes the idea and would promote the program with its members doing business at and around the airport where our Group is based.  Does anyone know of a similar program (successful or not) that has been implemented at any level within CAP?  I've done a quick search on the forum and haven't seen discussions on this particular topic.

Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.

[rjfoxx]

This sounds like an excellent idea...but, you need to run this by NHQ before you try to make any commitments.  Only NHQ can enter any legal agreement if one is needed.

[THRAWN]

Flight officers and young senior members? How young? What's the age limits? Flight officers ARE young SMs. Might want to define the age limits. In some circles, at 42, I am a "young senior member"....

I does sound interesting. What kinds of programs will the interns be exposed to? Lots of moving parts in the aviation world from the guy that drives the plane, to the guy that maintains them, to the guys that load them, to cargo (and the wacky world of hazardous materials) to the support personnel manning the ACR trucks....

Keep us posted.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Flight officers and young senior members? How young? What's the age limits? Flight officers ARE young SMs. Might want to define the age limits. In some circles, at 42, I am a "young senior member"....

I does sound interesting. What kinds of programs will the interns be exposed to? Lots of moving parts in the aviation world from the guy that drives the plane, to the guy that maintains them, to the guys that load them, to cargo (and the wacky world of hazardous materials) to the support personnel manning the ACR trucks....

Keep us posted.

I'm 26. In CAP circles, certainly a young SM. But probably a wee bit high for this? Lol

[THRAWN]

Flight officers and young senior members? How young? What's the age limits? Flight officers ARE young SMs. Might want to define the age limits. In some circles, at 42, I am a "young senior member"....

I does sound interesting. What kinds of programs will the interns be exposed to? Lots of moving parts in the aviation world from the guy that drives the plane, to the guy that maintains them, to the guys that load them, to cargo (and the wacky world of hazardous materials) to the support personnel manning the ACR trucks....

Keep us posted.

I'm 26. In CAP circles, certainly a young SM. But probably a wee bit high for this? Lol

I was 30 before some people stopped calling me "Cadet".

[Майор Хаткевич]

Flight officers and young senior members? How young? What's the age limits? Flight officers ARE young SMs. Might want to define the age limits. In some circles, at 42, I am a "young senior member"....

I does sound interesting. What kinds of programs will the interns be exposed to? Lots of moving parts in the aviation world from the guy that drives the plane, to the guy that maintains them, to the guys that load them, to cargo (and the wacky world of hazardous materials) to the support personnel manning the ACR trucks....

Keep us posted.

I'm 26. In CAP circles, certainly a young SM. But probably a wee bit high for this? Lol

I was 30 before some people stopped calling me "Cadet".

Yea, the problem starts when some of those SMs were around when I WAS a cadet.

[lordmonar]

Our Group is currently considering moving forward with a proposed program whereby local aviation businesses would offer internships for 1) cadets 18 and older, 2) flight officers, and 3) young senior members.  The local business aviation association likes the idea and would promote the program with its members doing business at and around the airport where our Group is based.  Does anyone know of a similar program (successful or not) that has been implemented at any level within CAP?  I've done a quick search on the forum and haven't seen discussions on this particular topic.

Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.

Flight Officers are young senior members.......so that is redundant redundant.

As for similar internships.....I don't think CAP has ever done anything like that.  But it is kind of a no brainer.    The company gets a free or low cost worker and the member gets some real world experience.

[skaha]

It does seem like a no-brainer, which is why I find it hard to believe that this hasn't been done before, and I'd like to avoid re-creating the wheel if at all possible, but so far have had no luck finding any similar programs within CAP.

As to age limits, I'd like to keep this flexible and allow the businesses to make the decision.  18 will be the minimum.  While the intent of the program is to focus on younger adults who need the experience for a future career in aviation, I'm not sure that there is any reason to refuse applications from "older" members, with no guarantees that the applicant will be accepted by a participating business, of course. 

I would not be in favor of interns being placed in any hazardous positions, and we will have to make sure that there is some type of mechanism in place to ensure that such a situation does not occur.

As to NHQ approval, I do think this should probably get approval from Legal, but we're hoping to structure this as a program offered by the aviation association rather than by CAP, which I'm hoping will minimize the need for any legal documentation.  I'm trying as best I can to work through the chain of command to get an answer on this particular point. 

Thanks to all for your responses.

[Garibaldi]

Flight officers and young senior members? How young? What's the age limits? Flight officers ARE young SMs. Might want to define the age limits. In some circles, at 42, I am a "young senior member"....

I does sound interesting. What kinds of programs will the interns be exposed to? Lots of moving parts in the aviation world from the guy that drives the plane, to the guy that maintains them, to the guys that load them, to cargo (and the wacky world of hazardous materials) to the support personnel manning the ACR trucks....

Keep us posted.

Thrawn...aka YOUNG Mr. Grace.

[THRAWN]

Behave, Garibaldi.

Skaha, aviation is a hazardous field. I was referring to actual hazmat. It is shipped as cargo every day under the rules established in both 14 and 49 CFR. It is a good field to get into because few certificated operators understand the rules and those that do are in constant need of people who are willing and able to do the job.

[Flying Pig]

If Im not mistaken, if this is a program done through CAP then it will most likely be open to all CAP members.  I don't know that you could restrict it to member just in your area in case that was an idea.  I don't know... maybe you can?

However, having worked in aviation full time for about 15 years, the issue with aviation is that Intern = Free manual labor.  Ive seen some "internships" offered at flight schools, FBOs or other operators with the dangling carrot of "potential to get free flight time"  "network in the industry" "make employment contacts" and hosts of other promises.  After about 3-6 months of sweeping hangars, washing airplanes and emptying trash cans..... the "interns" fade away. 

I will add this.... also with that 15 years of aviation experience, Ive learned that there is a decent number of aviation related business owners who are some of the most rude, non-personable jerks and in some cases, down right shady people you could every have the displeasure of meeting.  Ive lost the count of the number of FBO managers, flight school owners and other associated business managers Ive met who need taken out back for a discussion.  I would encourage you to make sure the details of the internship are pretty well laid out before tossing a young member to the wolves in this industry.  Ive seen "interns" used for straight manual labor for months with the promise of being able  to ferry an aircraft from CA to NC with expenses paid.  Conveniently the ferry was cancelled right about the time the interns term was up, Ive seen people take time off work and pay for their own travel and lodging only to arrive and never make contact with the company owner who forgot to call me (ooopps, did I say me?) and tell me the job had been canceled and that he was positive he told me.   Clean a hangar and numerous aircraft with the promise of "If you show me you can be counted on, ill hire you for part time work"   Never happened... oh.. darn... that was one of my stories again.  The Ferry flight from CA to NC was a real bummer because I took 10 days vacation to do the flight that never happened, and where I worked, once you put in for the days, that WAS your vacation.  You didn't get to cancel it.  Oh shoot... that was another one of my horror stories about "internships" in aviation 

[THRAWN]

That is every internship and frankly every business. It is not unique to aviation.

[Flying Pig]

It is, but its pretty brutal in aviation.  Ive seen people pretty well abused chasing the carrot for the promise of an hour in a Cessna or an R22. 

[THRAWN]

My lovely bride is a teacher. I would have shot someone by the end of her internship. She still has nightmares and refuses to say the name of her alleged mentor.

[skaha]

Thanks again for your comments.  We would obviously not allow for the interns to be placed in hazardous positions or to be relegated to purely menial tasks.  There is obviously a lot of room in between those two extremes, and we would also need some type of system to monitor the activities, but in this regard I think it helps that the program would be directed only to CAP members who are at least 18.

In any case, we would consider this to be a pilot program to see i) what type of experience we can get for our members, and ii) if there is enough interest among area businesses and CAP members to justify the work of putting it together.

I'm still hoping to elicit a response from someone who may have seen such a program in action.

[lordmonar]

Well....that's the rub.  You can't control that.

Aviation maintenance is hazardous.
And the whole point of internships is to get labor for cheap or free....ergo they are going to get the menial tasks.
That's the trade off for the intern.  They get to see what the business is all about, make some contacts and the company gets cheap labor.

I still think it is a good idea....but you got to know what you are getting into before you go.

http://www.internships.com/employer/resources/setup/12steps

[Майор Хаткевич]

While I can't make a blanket statement, a lot of internships are pretty much that. You don't learn anything useful, you do the work no one wants to do, but you MAY make some contacts.

[skaha]

Actually, the genesis of this idea came from one of the cadets in my squadron, who obtained an internship on her own with a helicopter maintenance shop.  She had a great time, learned a lot, and actually got hands-on experience.  In addition, her high school allowed her to work there for credit during her last semester in lieu of classes.

There is obviously no guarantee that everyone will have this experience, but many things are possible with the right attitude.

[etodd]

Actually, the genesis of this idea came from one of the cadets in my squadron, who obtained an internship on her own ....

Seems to me the "on her own" part answers the question all the way around. Why make this an official program? Let the businesses know some Cadets might be interested in being an intern. The business knows that these folks are pre-qualified in a sense if they are in CAP. If a business has an opening, they notify you, and you can notify all the Cadets. Any interested can then wear street clothes and go interview, "on their own". Its a win-win for all involved with no legal issues for CAP and no need for NHQ to be involved at all. If they are power washing hangars or sweeping floors I wouldn't expect them to be in uniform anyway.

Simplicity can often be such a beautiful thing when miles of red tape and board meetings are the other alternative.

[skaha]

Actually, the genesis of this idea came from one of the cadets in my squadron, who obtained an internship on her own ....

Seems to me the "on her own" part answers the question all the way around. Why make this an official program? Let the businesses know some Cadets might be interested in being an intern. The business knows that these folks are pre-qualified in a sense if they are in CAP. If a business has an opening, they notify you, and you can notify all the Cadets. Any interested can then wear street clothes and go interview, "on their own". Its a win-win for all involved with no legal issues for CAP and no need for NHQ to be involved at all. If they are power washing hangars or sweeping floors I wouldn't expect them to be in uniform anyway.

Simplicity can often be such a beautiful thing when miles of red tape and board meetings are the other alternative.

I do like this approach due to the relative simplicity and avoidance of red tape.  The only downside is that we will not be able to tout this as a CAP program.  Perhaps if it is successful we can work on that down the road.

Thanks for the feedback.