AOPA Discussion on CAP

[Short Field]

Very interesting discussion about CAP on the AOPA Forum on what other flyers think about us and why.  Some CAPTalkers were quoted as well.   
http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?t=77333

[Eclipse]

Requires a login...

[Flying Pig]

You have to be an AOPA member to read it.  I purused through it.  Nothing to see.  Just a lot of people who arent in CAP complaining about myths and unsubstantiated information.  Complaining about CAP members setting up "road blocks" at an airshow and trying to prevent him from passing....Of course, he "told them....."

Another guy whinning about CAP taking business from his flight school because he couldnt compete with CAPs cheap rates.......

Another guy appauled at being asked to teach for free for CAP (My thought was he probably looked into joining thinking he could make some money as a CFI and found out he couldnt.  Hmmm, but CAP is the bad guy?)

A couple CAP members post some facts here and there, followed up by some other yahoo who has a story about a friend, who knew a guy who had a brother that was in CAP in 1978...yada yada.....

Most seem to be to awesome to ever have time for CAP.

[Short Field]

Sorry about the log-in - I get logged in automatically.  I tested the link and it worked but...

It might be folks who think they are simply awesome, but it is also a view from people who influence a lot of pilots who may be potential members.     

[Cliff_Chambliss]

Just read through it and all I can think of is we all need to do a better job of getting the real word out there.  But we also need to all remember that talk comes cheap and all of us are going to be judged by the observed actions of the membership.
Preaching to the choir maybe, but remember It's the person that makes the uniform, not the other way around.  So when in uniform, be polite, courteous, and be professional.   For in the end we will be judged by what others think they see and not by what we want them to see.

[Eclipse]

This kind of thing is the reason I don't bother with any other forums and make a point of asking questions
here about people's real-world CAP experience when they make negative or misinformed statements about CAP.

We have people who purport to be members who have no issue making incredibly negative postings,
propagating rumors and legends which don't even make logical sense, let alone being the truth, or spinning
the realities of being a pseudo-governmental, paramilitary organization into somehow being the product or
willful negligence or incompetence.

We all need to try and be the best ambassadors we can, and work to make sure the real story gets out,
but we have to realize as well that the media isn't as concerned with "facts" as it is with "eyeshare" and
anyone with an agenda can make all the hay they want to.

[RADIOMAN015]

We all need to try and be the best ambassadors we can, and work to make sure the real story gets out,
but we have to realize as well that the media isn't as concerned with "facts" as it is with "eyeshare" and
anyone with an agenda can make all the hay they want to.

Gee, in our area there's always "good news" about CAP published or aired on TV.  Surely I won't take all the credit as the PAO, because the vast majority of squadron adult membership (as well as our cadets) are level headed and respectful to all, especially on any ES missions.

HOWEVER, unfortunately, some people join CAP for the wrong reasons.  Somehow when they put on that CAP uniform they think they have authority over everyone, including Joe civilian who has nothing to do with us.  I think part of every ES or other type of mission/support briefing (anytime we are going out of the squadron facility/immediate area) should include something about courtesy and proper representations.  Right now there's no requirement.  This might head off some issues.

I don't think the media goes looking for CAP members to make the organization look bad.  It is the individual member's bad actions/behavior that brings that upon the organization.   
RM       
   

[Spaceman3750]

We all need to try and be the best ambassadors we can, and work to make sure the real story gets out,
but we have to realize as well that the media isn't as concerned with "facts" as it is with "eyeshare" and
anyone with an agenda can make all the hay they want to.

Gee, in our area there's always "good news" about CAP published or aired on TV.  Surely I won't take all the credit as the PAO, because the vast majority of squadron adult membership (as well as our cadets) are level headed and respectful to all, especially on any ES missions.

HOWEVER, unfortunately, some people join CAP for the wrong reasons.  Somehow when they put on that CAP uniform they think they have authority over everyone, including Joe civilian who has nothing to do with us.  I think part of every ES or other type of mission/support briefing (anytime we are going out of the squadron facility/immediate area) should include something about courtesy and proper representations.  Right now there's no requirement.  This might head off some issues.

I don't think the media goes looking for CAP members to make the organization look bad.  It is the individual member's bad actions/behavior that brings that upon the organization.   
RM       
   

Anyone who's going to act stupid in front of the public is going to do it whether or not we brief them on being nice.

[FW]

I didn't realize AOPA had an online forum (I've only been an AOPA member since 1979 ).

No matter how wrong or off the wall some of the posts are, it looks like CAP has a long way to go in "spreading the word" on what and who we are to the GA community. 

[BillB]

When CAP used member owned aircraft AOPA and CAP had a fairly close relationship. But since the use of member owned aircraft is discouraged there is less of a need for AOPA aircraft owners. A person owning and flying a Cessna 210 or Lake amphibian is not going to be a CAP pilot in a steam gauge 172. CAP has no longer anything to offer an aircraft owner and pilot.

[Nolan Teel]

All of these posts in AOPA is the exact reason CAP needs to work on our image.  Until the Local CAP Units "get it" we will have these problems. I do like some of the people who jump in to defend us who aren't in CAP.  I always think of the line from the Guardian where Kevin Costner says "Were the Coast Guard, no one appreciates us till they need us".  Same applies to CAP, these guys wont appreciate us till they are upside down in a field pinned in their wreckage. Thats when they will appreciate the G1000 182 that under cuts local business, flying over with a crew that jumped thru all the hopes on paperwork to get the job done.

Rant Over.

[jimmydeanno]

Geez.  Talk about calling the kettle black.  Why do those AOPA members charge so much for flight lessons?  Why are those AOPA members crashing planes?  I had this one AOPA member who scratch our airplane while he was refueling it once!  The last time I was at the grocery store, there was a huge Suburban that had parked in a handicapped parking spot without the placard.  It had an AOPA sticker on it.

Obviously, CAP isn't the issue, but AOPA members.

[Short Field]

CAP has no longer anything to offer an aircraft owner and pilot.

Bull!!!  First, most AOPA members don't own their own airplane.  Second, I owned a 182 and 172, down to just a 172 now.  I joined CAP for the mission.  There are just so many $100 hamburgers you can fly to and not get bored.  However, give me a real mission and the adrenaline gets flowing and I feel I am doing something.  I do mission base, ground teams, and IC duties just to pull my fair share of "unfun" duty to support the mission but I come alive on a flight with a real mission and objective.  It even makes it worthwhile putting up with the "less than" professionals that surround us, the paperwork, and the training requirements.  I have a find and a save to my credit as a MP.  That is what makes flying in CAP worthwhile and that is what we need to be selling to the AOPA pilots - not the "free flying".

[a2capt]

I'll be the first to admit that CAP means Complete All Paperwork, Complaints Are Probable, and sometimes it feels like Cadets Are Priority, and certainly Changes Are Painful. But I do have to say, find any "group" and you'll find it's own loons and whacks, and then the outsiders that find these types as their first introduction to said "group" and instantly, it's labeled, and that the whole organization must be that way.

Free flight? Great reason to join. Not a chance. There is no free lunch.
..and boy are they pissed off and bent when they find out it ain't so.

I will say with regards to the loudest ones in that thread, I've encountered very similar issues locally, in that you've got to deal with someone spreading that same kind of venom. Usually with a little bit of research from our end of things, and multiple sources/viewpoints, you'll figure out that they were one of those royally pissed off ones when they found out they could not fly for free, near free, or that access to our aircraft is not a joy ride as an FBO alternative.

Do the firefighters take the engine to the supermarket? Sure. If they didn't, they'd have to go back and get it if they got a call. Not quite the same as CAP at all, but .. from an opposite perspective: An airplane that sits on the ramp when it can be flown for proficiency, or to fulfill other parts of the organizations mission, is better than one that just sits there.

With in mind, as a trade off for putting your time in, hopping all those hoops and hurdles, flying those cadets that might barf on you for the first time, taking the time to do 6 preflights in one day just to demonstrate it to each cadet, for all those hours of sitting around waiting for that tasking that never comes during the training scenario,  or that 3AM call out and preflight, only to be stood down just as soon as you're about to turn the key.

The return for that? Sure, you can fly the plane for essentially the same price that they'll charge themselves or the requesting agency. Yes, part of that hourly rate is subsidized with appropriated funds, but not all of that subsidy is either, and depending on the flight type, none of if may be.

FBO competition? LOL. Come on. Thats really stretching it.  Don't want to give free CFI time? Fine. Don't. Don't log  the CFI time either then. I realize that argument doesn't quite work with the FBO model, you're getting paid to sit there. OTOH, you can't take a tax write-off either. Sure, the salary may be a lot more than the write-off, may not. Whatever. But to say that "we" are competing with the private enterprise using "your" tax dollars is ludicrous. CAP isn't free to participate, and to get access to that aircraft you generally have to be contributing in other ways. Cadets, advancing in the program, taking the oath to prepare to be of service to their community, state and nation.

Those senior members who volunteer, (just incase it's not clear, there's no pay here, except for that fine feeling of satisfaction you get when you see that cadet solo, that Spaatz certificate awarded, that Color Guard team win the national competition, etc.., and that's huge, and to top it off, when those cadets thank you for it.)  Lets not forget those 3AM launches, again- and all the time you put into weekend activities when you could have gone to the game instead, or sat around slugging beers and shooting the breeze.

Competition. LOL. If anything, CAP is just one of the many ways those operations are being fed future clientele.

In fact, I could swear a couple of those posters probably were the ones that joined my unit and did nothing but complain and bad mouth when they found out there was not "4 free hours of flight per month", no instant promotion to Command General because they had a CFI certificate, or any number of things that "they heard".

Is CAP perfect? Heck no. Any more or less than any other organization? Nope.

[JeffDG]

Free flight? Great reason to join. Not a chance. There is no free lunch.
..and boy are they pissed off and bent when they find out it ain't so.

I would be interested in the number of hours of free labour the average CAP member contributes per hour of "free" flying.