We have GOT to get rid of the term "Senior Member!"

[CAP Producer]

They have a clear misunderstanding of CAP and are too hung up on their birds.  Rather than garner the respect due their advanced grade, they just raise eyebrows as to why they have none?  People are due what they are due, but anyone getting that hung up on the birds needs to get over themselves.
We have professional NCO members who only want to be professional NCOs in CAP.
Doesn't exist in CAP, by duty or structure, another group with a misunderstanding of how CAP works.

Anything else?

I think it's CAP that has a clear misunderstanding of people that have worked very hard for a long time to achieve what they have, only to be told "well, your real O-6 is about equal to a CAP O-5".  That statement is a joke and a half.

CAP understands CAP just fine. So does the Air Force.

Members who are colonels and above are (or were members of) the senior leadership and management of CAP.

It is not a slight to those military officers who are colonels/naval captains that they cannot be appointed to those ranks in CAP.

These ranks (colonel, general officers) are earned by (and restricted to those) members who are chosen to serve as wing and region commanders, or serve on sleected positions on the national staff and as region vice commanders.

This decision was made a long time ago by CAP and the USAF. It seems to work well for us.

I personally know about a dozen members who hold the rank of Colonel in the military and serve in CAP as Lt Col's. They are happy contributing members who are not hung up on rank. I do smile when I see them at events like a wing conference when they suit up in military mess dress with their eagles.

At least we do not have the grade inflation issues that the military has.

[Krapenhoeffer]

The term "officers" is not dumb because HWSNBN advocated it...

HWSNBN advocated it because he was a wannabee. Most of the things he suggested screamed of wannabee.

Deciding on calling SMs "Officers" was his decision based on that he thought he was a real General in the "USCAP".

I would be fine with the title Corporate Officer, or Corporate Member... So long as it can't be construed by somebody with half a brain that the title = RealMilitary^TM Officer.

[a2capt]

Well, I don't see the word "corporate" flying anywhere in it ever because "corporate officer" is what your Wing CC is, that implies signatory authority in the real/business/legal world.

[DakRadz]

the 30 plus rule does not apply to general officers

TITLE 10 > Subtitle A > PART II > CHAPTER 36 > SUBCHAPTER III > § 635
Prev | Next
§ 635.
[~snip~]

10 U.S.C. § 637 :
(3) Any deferral of retirement and continuation on active duty
under this subsection shall be for a period not to exceed five
years, but such period may not (except as provided under section
1251(b) of this title) extend beyond the date of the officer's
sixty-second birthday.

62 is the be all and end all age.

[SarDragon]

Which goes right along with the 40 years of commissioned service.

[JohnKachenmeister]

The term "officers" is not dumb because HWSNBN advocated it...

HWSNBN advocated it because he was a wannabee. Most of the things he suggested screamed of wannabee.

Deciding on calling SMs "Officers" was his decision based on that he thought he was a real General in the "USCAP".

I would be fine with the title Corporate Officer, or Corporate Member... So long as it can't be construed by somebody with half a brain that the title = RealMilitary^TM Officer.

CAP is a paramilitary organization and the rank structure is approved by the USAF.  When I run a mission, I do the same job that a USAF officer would have to do if CAP was not there.  I soldiered for my rank up to major, and I earned the promotion to lieutenant colonel.  Don't call me a wannabe.

[FlyTiger77]

They have a clear misunderstanding of CAP and are too hung up on their birds.  Rather than garner the respect due their advanced grade, they just raise eyebrows as to why they have none?  People are due what they are due, but anyone getting that hung up on the birds needs to get over themselves.
We have professional NCO members who only want to be professional NCOs in CAP.
Doesn't exist in CAP, by duty or structure, another group with a misunderstanding of how CAP works.

Anything else?

I think it's CAP that has a clear misunderstanding of people that have worked very hard for a long time to achieve what they have, only to be told "well, your real O-6 is about equal to a CAP O-5".  That statement is a joke and a half.

If a colonel is being told "well, your real O-6 is about equal to a CAP O-5", then the problem we have is with the messenger providing the wrong message.

CAP is not the military and the military is not CAP. There are many similarities but there are many more differences.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I JUST had this situation... a USAF-retired colonel joining, and I had to tell him the bad news.  He fully understood, since he had already looked into it.  At the upper rank levels of the USAF, most USAF types know more about CAP than some of our own members.  They learn about CAP in their PME.

[Eclipse]

They have a clear misunderstanding of CAP and are too hung up on their birds.  Rather than garner the respect due their advanced grade, they just raise eyebrows as to why they have none?  People are due what they are due, but anyone getting that hung up on the birds needs to get over themselves.
We have professional NCO members who only want to be professional NCOs in CAP.
Doesn't exist in CAP, by duty or structure, another group with a misunderstanding of how CAP works.

Anything else?

I think it's CAP that has a clear misunderstanding of people that have worked very hard for a long time to achieve what they have, only to be told "well, your real O-6 is about equal to a CAP O-5".  That statement is a joke and a half.

More fundamental misunderstanding.

O-6 from the USAF doesn't "equal" anything in CAP, anymore than it equals something in a Police Department, The Red Cross, or a corporation.  Respect for the service and valuable management experience are not what we are discussing here, and as a matter of information, it is not uncommon for military officers to accept a temporary lower grade when transferring services because a billet for their existing grade is not open.  This is especially common in regards to the Guard, Reserves, or as said, when moving between services.  If eligible, they get they higher grade back for retirement, but while they are in the different service, they might be a click or two lower.

[JeffDG]

I think an AF O-6 who comes into CAP should be paid the same salary in CAP as every other CAP Colonel is paid. 

Who's with me?

[arajca]

I address the issue during presentation like this:
For adults we have several categories of membership - patron, AEM, CSM, Senior. I proceed to explain each and end by saying the Senior Member has nothing to do with age, but rather that they are the highest category in the adult program, similar to senior management.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I address the issue during presentation like this:
For adults we have several categories of membership - patron, AEM, CSM, Senior. I proceed to explain each and end by saying the Senior Member has nothing to do with age, but rather that they are the highest category in the adult program, similar to senior management.

So... why is your "Senior Member" in fact junior to your lowest-ranking officers?  They are actually even junior to your lowest ranking NCO's, if you have any.  How can he be similar to a senior manager, when there are no managers junior to him?  Now I'm REALLY confused.

[JohnKachenmeister]

How about calling ALL adult members of CAP "Officers," with the newbies holding the rank of Officer Without Grade (OWG).

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

That's better than SMWOG. I always thought that acronym sounded like something out of Tolkien. And the SMWOG led a horde of orcs against the elves.

[MIKE]

Auxiliarist. 

[wuzafuzz]

Auxiliarist. 

Love it!  Except when we're Aux Off = Corporatists.   

[Krapenhoeffer]

I just fail to see why the sudden pressing need to change this, and fail to see how changing Senior Member to Officer is suddenly going to make O-6s happy.

We have several classes of members,

Cadet Members,
Aerospace Education Members,
Cadet Sponsor Members,
Congressional Members,
Patron Members,

and the ones running the show, and making things happen for all the other members...

Senior Members. It makes sense. No need to go breaking lots of things, to fix something very tiny.

Considering that CAP is a Corporation, the logic of the system makes perfect sense.

[Smokey]

While we are at it....we need to dump  "Senior Squadron".  I've had the same problem as Kack.   I've had folks tell me they didn't contact a senior squadron to join as they thought it was for those over 65.  They joined a composite squadron because they believed that was all they could join. (Not knocking composite squadrons in any way). 

The misperception by the PUBLIC is a problem for recruiting, public relations and the like.  I would like to see senior squardon replaced with .....squadron.  Plain and simple.  Instead of Senior Squadron 40 or Podunk Senior Squadron 40 it would be Squdron 40 or 40th Squadron. 

Discuss...

[jimmydeanno]

I've abandoned the term completely when talking to people that aren't members.

I just tell them that I'm in CAP's adult program.  Even our national webpage has a section for "CAP Adults."  I also find that using "adult program" implies that we have a "youth program" as well.

[JohnKachenmeister]

I just fail to see why the sudden pressing need to change this, and fail to see how changing Senior Member to Officer is suddenly going to make O-6s happy.

We have several classes of members,

Cadet Members,
Aerospace Education Members,
Cadet Sponsor Members,
Congressional Members,
Patron Members,

and the ones running the show, and making things happen for all the other members...

Senior Members. It makes sense. No need to go breaking lots of things, to fix something very tiny.

Considering that CAP is a Corporation, the logic of the system makes perfect sense.

Perhaps you should read the thread before you comment.  The issue of full colonels was peripheral to the discussion.  And the term "Senior Member" makes even LESS sense in a corporation.