CAPR 39-1, 5 March 2020

Started by NIN, March 05, 2020, 08:39:44 PM

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Okayish Aviator

So, I'd like to retract my earlier concerns on the FDU's new rank colors. I just saw one with the blue rank on the shoulders. You cannot tell from 10ft that the background doesn't match the uniform. So that's cool.

Cant wait to get my own sewn on, but I'll likely do the swap on the rank and namepatch all at once when VG gets all their stuff finalized and standardized for the name patch.
Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.


Eclipse

It's never been allowed on a ball cap in CAP (other then some "special" activities).

I've had the same pin on the same patrol cap with bent pins for over 10 years.
No issue.

"That Others May Zoom"

THRAWN

Quote from: Eclipse on March 09, 2020, 09:39:51 PMIt's never been allowed on a ball cap in CAP (other then some "special" activities).

I've had the same pin on the same patrol cap with bent pins for over 10 years.
No issue.

Not too bad for captain and above. Not as much fun for lieutenants and flight officers
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

Eclipse

It's less hassle then sewing.

"That Others May Zoom"

SarDragon

Quote from: THRAWN on March 10, 2020, 02:57:41 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 09, 2020, 09:39:51 PMIt's never been allowed on a ball cap in CAP (other then some "special" activities).

I've had the same pin on the same patrol cap with bent pins for over 10 years.
No issue.

Not too bad for captain and above. Not as much fun for lieutenants and flight officers
It's all a matter of technique.

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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

jb3

Funny story, I went to gocivilairpatrol.com and opened what I thought was the new uniform regulation. It took me a couple minutes to realize that I was reading the old CAPM 39-1. The new CAPR 39-1 is there too so it comes down to operator error on my part. Ok, not really that funny but I thought I'd overshare.

Fester

Quote from: jb3 on March 10, 2020, 06:26:24 AMFunny story, I went to gocivilairpatrol.com and opened what I thought was the new uniform regulation. It took me a couple minutes to realize that I was reading the old CAPM 39-1. The new CAPR 39-1 is there too so it comes down to operator error on my part. Ok, not really that funny but I thought I'd overshare.

Yeah, they really should pull the old one down.
1stLt, CAP
Squadron CC
Group CPO
Eaker - 1996

CFToaster

Quote from: kcebnaes on March 09, 2020, 05:34:24 PMDid anyone else notice that metal insignia are still allowed on the Corporate Field Uniform (Blue BDU) hats? I am TOTALLY switching to metal insignia to see what happens..

Thank you for this; I misread the new 39-1 on my first read-through and thought that pin-on rank was no longer authorized. I was sad. But now I am not.

sarmed1

I liked how until the phase out date, members can wear the HMRS ranger tabs on the uniform only at the activity.  ie this is my Hawk shirt and this is my not Hawk shirt.

Also the illustration with the Ranger tabs is incorrect:  It shows and Expert Ranger in Black and Gold and Red and Gold.  The Red and Gold should say Master Medic.

With the phase out this might be a fantastic time to look at the development of an actual 39-1 compliant "badge" vs a "tab" for HMRS graduates

mk
Capt.  Mark "K12" Kleibscheidel

Eclipse

Quote from: sarmed1 on March 13, 2020, 01:16:16 AMWith the phase out this might be a fantastic time to look at the development of an actual 39-1 compliant "badge" vs a "tab" for HMRS graduates

Nah - "none" covers the issue nicely and closes the arguments once and for all.

"That Others May Zoom"

NovemberWhiskey

Quote from: sarmed1 on March 13, 2020, 01:16:16 AMWith the phase out this might be a fantastic time to look at the development of an actual 39-1 compliant "badge" vs a "tab" for HMRS graduates

There's already a Hawk Mountain NCSA patch that can be worn; is there really a need for anything else?

Capt Thompson

Quote from: sarmed1 on March 13, 2020, 01:16:16 AMWith the phase out this might be a fantastic time to look at the development of an actual 39-1 compliant "badge" vs a "tab" for HMRS graduates

mk
The problem is it wouldn't be just one metal badge, you would have to have something for all of the different grades. Will VG want to produce that many different badges knowing they will only sell a small amount each year? I hate to see the tabs go, but with the new push for less is more on the ABU's I doubt anyone will be in a hurry to create more badges for a program that only a small percentage of the membership base will attend.
Capt Matt Thompson
Deputy Commander for Cadets, Historian, Public Affairs Officer

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 1 OCT 00 (#11401)

Jester

Quote from: 1st Lt Thompson on March 13, 2020, 04:13:38 PM
Quote from: sarmed1 on March 13, 2020, 01:16:16 AMWith the phase out this might be a fantastic time to look at the development of an actual 39-1 compliant "badge" vs a "tab" for HMRS graduates

mk
The problem is it wouldn't be just one metal badge, you would have to have something for all of the different grades. Will VG want to produce that many different badges knowing they will only sell a small amount each year? I hate to see the tabs go, but with the new push for less is more on the ABU's I doubt anyone will be in a hurry to create more badges for a program that only a small percentage of the membership base will attend.

Might be time to make more rockers like the staff ones.  Maybe ranger grade on top, staff on bottom?

Or just integrate the ranger grade into the patch itself and upgrade as you go.

Luckily I have enough uniforms laying around to make some Hawk-only ones.

Eclipse

Quote from: Jester on March 13, 2020, 05:57:50 PMMight be time to make more rockers like the staff ones.  Maybe ranger grade on top, staff on bottom?

Why?

"Ranger Grade" isn't a thing that matters to anyone but the person wearing it.
It's an unnecessary affectation from an HAA - leave it there.

"That Others May Zoom"

Okayish Aviator

One thing I'd like to see is expanded badges for specialty tracks similar to GT or IC, IG. Etc.

We have a lot of members who may not play ES, but are outstanding at the duties they perform at unit, group and wing.

Itd be a great way to align more with AF and they'd have something to denote those items on a utility.

Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.


Jester

Quote from: Eclipse on March 13, 2020, 06:38:43 PM
Quote from: Jester on March 13, 2020, 05:57:50 PMMight be time to make more rockers like the staff ones.  Maybe ranger grade on top, staff on bottom?

Why?

"Ranger Grade" isn't a thing that matters to anyone but the person wearing it.
It's an unnecessary affectation from an HAA - leave it there.

Nah.  I'm maxed out on GT stuff and working on ranger grades gives me something to do to keep progressing.  I've started doing NASAR stuff too (which Hawk now trains to).

Eclipse

Quote from: DocJekyll on March 13, 2020, 06:52:15 PMItd be a great way to align more with AF and they'd have something to denote those items on a utility.

So you want patches on a working uniform for people who do jobs that don't require a
working uniform?

"That Others May Zoom"

Okayish Aviator

Quote from: Eclipse on March 13, 2020, 07:36:54 PM
Quote from: DocJekyll on March 13, 2020, 06:52:15 PMItd be a great way to align more with AF and they'd have something to denote those items on a utility.

So you want patches on a working uniform for people who do jobs that don't require a
working uniform?

May not require it, but plenty of people do wear them. Could be added to the tactical polo as well in place of wings etc on that uniform.

Just a thought. I dont ever expect it to happen.
Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.


SARDOC

Quote from: 1st Lt Thompson on March 06, 2020, 05:29:44 PM
Quote from: DocJekyll on March 06, 2020, 05:25:37 PMOne thing I noticed,

There is reference to the "Blue" cloth name patch with silver border, badge and name, but it doesn't reference which type of blue as it does in other sections for name tapes etc. So, what shade is it? Midnight/Dark Navy? Bright Blue? The regulation would seem to show with the picture that it's Midnight/Dark Navy just like the rank, but I recently saw someone from national with a bright blue name patch wearing his FDU.

I would have liked for them to use rank on the USAF style FDU that was sage/od on the background with full color rank. The Midnight/Dark Navy doesn't look that good on the USAF style. Looks great on the Corporate FDU though. There was no guideance for the rank on the shoulders with the cloth. 1/8in blue around the widest and top/bottom edge as per everywhere else? I think that needs to be addressed so we don't have massive patches with 1" border around the rank.

Also appears no phase out for the black leather name patch so that's still good. Just the plastic encased rank?

No phase out for the leather name badge, but it also says that if the leather badge is worn, the plastic encased must be worn, so once the plastic encased rank goes away so do the leather badges.

Attachment 9 reports Leather nametag phase out date of 01AUG2021

Paul Creed III

Quote from: SARDOC on March 23, 2020, 04:31:04 PM
Quote from: 1st Lt Thompson on March 06, 2020, 05:29:44 PM
Quote from: DocJekyll on March 06, 2020, 05:25:37 PMOne thing I noticed,

There is reference to the "Blue" cloth name patch with silver border, badge and name, but it doesn't reference which type of blue as it does in other sections for name tapes etc. So, what shade is it? Midnight/Dark Navy? Bright Blue? The regulation would seem to show with the picture that it's Midnight/Dark Navy just like the rank, but I recently saw someone from national with a bright blue name patch wearing his FDU.

I would have liked for them to use rank on the USAF style FDU that was sage/od on the background with full color rank. The Midnight/Dark Navy doesn't look that good on the USAF style. Looks great on the Corporate FDU though. There was no guideance for the rank on the shoulders with the cloth. 1/8in blue around the widest and top/bottom edge as per everywhere else? I think that needs to be addressed so we don't have massive patches with 1" border around the rank.

Also appears no phase out for the black leather name patch so that's still good. Just the plastic encased rank?

No phase out for the leather name badge, but it also says that if the leather badge is worn, the plastic encased must be worn, so once the plastic encased rank goes away so do the leather badges.

Attachment 9 reports Leather nametag phase out date of 01AUG2021

Just checked Vanguard and I am not seeing the embroidered name patches or the grade insignia yet. 
Lt Col Paul Creed III, CAP
Group 3 Ohio Wing sUAS Program Manager