SM meeting activities

[Walkman]

We're transitioning from a cadet to composite. For the last year or so, even though we're officially a composite, we're still running things like its just CP going on.

I'm looking for ideas aside from ES training for our SMs to do on meeting night. I've seen a few things here and there on CT, but most of it is generic "do some PD work". I'd like to get some real details. How do you do PD when everyone has a different job?

What are other specific ideas for meetings I can submit to the SDC?

[BHartman007]

Our squadron spends so much time with CP during the normal meeting nights that the CC is toying with the idea of having a second meeting night for just seniors to do aircrew and ES stuff and the like. We have a fairly small number of active seniors, and most of them are involved in one way or another in CP.

[RiverAux]

WIWSC, our senior side didn't do "PD" activities, but almost always spent most of the meeting doing ES-related training, usually, but not always, with a focus on aircrew operations.  Unlike many composite squadrons , our seniors only met twice a month so coming up with good topics wasn't quite as hard.  Frankly, I don't think weekly senior meetings are necessary, but thats a different topic. 

[Eclipse]

For the most part, the only reason for seniors not involved in the CP to be members is ES, what else is there?
Everything else is just a derivative of those two things (yes, even AE, which is a separate mission by lip service only)

Whatever you land on, you should make sure to have a full, detailed calendar based on the fiscal year.

You meetings should include preparation for SUI (or records updates and other administrivia), training (or using) on the various
necessary systems needed to be successful, both CAP-owned and others, briefings from various departments on
what other echelons are doing, needing, or could be doing for you.

The biggest part if the startup - assessing the mission needs your unit can fit, and the interests of your members, there should be a balance
of those.

As to PD, I agree that can be a challenge with a small unit and everyone with different specialties, but some early work should be
spent getting everyone tuned up and with an understanding on how PD works, and what they will need to do, then
adding related tasks and classes, etc., to the calendar. 

[SunDog]

FWIW, our Cadets, and SM's involved in CP, meet weekly. The rest of us SM's, mostly ES aircrew, meet twice a month. The sqdn CC shows for all the meetings. I think most of the aircrew wouldn't recognize our sqdn Cadets on the street, as O rides are done by all our nearby sqdns, mix and match. I'm not sure if I've had one of our cadets in the plane recently, or not - maybe, but probably most of the Cadets I've flown were from other sqdns. O rides aren't a real big part of flying hours.

Seems to work OK -  the SM's involved in CP seem busy and get a lot done. Tough for aircrew (at least those not retired!) to find time to stay flying proficient and do much with CP.

Most of our ES PD is done outside the meetings. A couple of people get together when prepping for a new qual, etc. Meetings are to get the safety square filled, and whatever business needs to be attended to.  If I've flown a lot one month, like as not I won't make it to a meeting at all.

[bflynn]

This is the agenda for our next SM meeting, it may be appropriate for you to use to structure a meeting.  We typically get through this in about an hour, give or take.  We spend a second hour with either staff officers meeting with the squadron commander or staff officers being available to meet with members.  Keep in mind that our squadron is on the large side, so there are many people who are not staff officers.

Meeting agenda:
o   Pledges
o   Invocation 
o   Introductions
o   Announcements and Administrative Matters
o   Squadron / Wing / MER Event Calendar
o   Safety Briefing
o   Aero Space Education OR Special Presentations / Activity
o   Level III Briefing

I'm actually not sure what the Level III briefing is, it's not a normal item on the schedule.  But we always have a safety briefing and either an AE or special topic briefing.  Safety briefings alternate between something aviation focused and general safety.  Examples of general safety briefings might be heat injuries, local poisonious snakes and plants or a review of the operation of and driving characteristics of the CAP passenger van.  They are focused on activites that are relevant to CAP.

Helpful?

[Walkman]

This is the agenda for our next SM meeting, it may be appropriate for you to use to structure a meeting.  We typically get through this in about an hour, give or take.  We spend a second hour with either staff officers meeting with the squadron commander or staff officers being available to meet with members.  Keep in mind that our squadron is on the large side, so there are many people who are not staff officers.

Meeting agenda:
o   Pledges
o   Invocation 
o   Introductions
o   Announcements and Administrative Matters
o   Squadron / Wing / MER Event Calendar
o   Safety Briefing
o   Aero Space Education OR Special Presentations / Activity
o   Level III Briefing

I'm actually not sure what the Level III briefing is, it's not a normal item on the schedule.  But we always have a safety briefing and either an AE or special topic briefing.  Safety briefings alternate between something aviation focused and general safety.  Examples of general safety briefings might be heat injuries, local poisonious snakes and plants or a review of the operation of and driving characteristics of the CAP passenger van.  They are focused on activites that are relevant to CAP.

Helpful?

How often do you meet?

[Critical AOA]

Invocation as in a prayer?  Highly inappropriate.

[GroundHawg]

Invocation as in a prayer?  Highly inappropriate.

I disagree. We have Chaplains for a reason. If you don't agree with the message then step out of the room, or plan an alternate activity if you believe there are more than just you that are not interested.

I don't have any interest in Aircrew, so guess what? I don't participate in it! I don't think that the rest of the squadron should be barred from Aircrew training because I don't have an interest in it. It is a viable program, just as is the Cadet Program, Communications, Legal, ES, etc...and whether you like it or not the Chaplains as well.

[Eclipse]

I disagree. We have Chaplains for a reason. If you don't agree with the message then step out of the room, or plan an alternate activity if you believe there are more than just you that are not interested.

That's not how it works.

[jeders]

Invocation as in a prayer?  Highly inappropriate.

That's what I thought too, but it seems we're both wrong.

a. Opening unit meetings with prayer. If you
desire, you may have a moment of silent prayer
and thus encourage members to search for
creative ways to express their innermost
feelings. If you do pray aloud, be sure to offer
an INTERFAITH-type prayer.

Now if the prayer is not interfaith or non-denominational, then that would be highly inappropriate.

[Eclipse]

Now if the prayer is not interfaith or non-denominational, then that would be highly inappropriate.

That was my point - no real issue if the commander feels a prayer is important, but it can't be
religion specific, and no one should have to leave the room.

Even a lot of Chaplains newsletters seem to miss this point.

[jeders]

Now if the prayer is not interfaith or non-denominational, then that would be highly inappropriate.

That was my point - no real issue if the commander feels a prayer is important, but it can't be
religion specific, and no one should have to leave the room.

Even the a lot of Chaplains newsletters seem to miss this point.

Unfortunately, true. My squadron is fortunate to have a former AF Reserve Chaplain who actually understands the non-denominational requirements.

[bflynn]

Invocation as in a prayer?  Highly inappropriate.

Yes, as in a prayer led by a chaplain.  Highly appropriate and nobody who voluntarily shows up objects to it.  I believe that if anyone isn't interested in prayer, they have respect for the majority that does and they stand silently while we pray.

We meet about every two weeks, the first and third Thursdays of the month.

[Eclipse]

...nobody who voluntarily shows up objects to it.

Which is generally an indication only of the "wave-making" tolerance of anyone who may be offended.

For some reason people seem to miss or ignore this point.

But regardless, even if you know the room is full of only one faith, the Chaplin is supposed to remain non-denominational in any public comments
or invocations.

[jeders]

Invocation as in a prayer?  Highly inappropriate.

Yes, as in a prayer led by a chaplain.  Highly appropriate...

... as long as it is not based in any one faith and it is not construed as proselytizing.

...nobody who voluntarily shows up objects to it.

Which is generally an indication only of the "wave-making" tolerance of anyone who may be offended.

Not necessarily. When I was in high school band, we would have no less than three student or faculty led prayers before/during each football game, four for away games. Myself and one of the drum majors were both atheists and chose to stand quietly while everyone else prayed. We did this, not because we didn't want to make waves, but out of respect for those that did want to pray. It would have been disrespectful to make a bunch of noise leaving the area and coming back after the prayer was over and would have seriously disrupted schedules.

But regardless, even if you know the room is full of only one faith, the Chaplin is supposed to remain non-denominational in any public comments
or invocations.

This is the most important part, right here.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I have yet hear a CAP chaplain meet the requirements. As an atheist I just don't care, but seems interfaith is NOT something they can handle...

[Eclipse]

I have yet hear a CAP chaplain meet the requirements. As an atheist I just don't care, but seems interfaith is NOT something they can handle...

I worked with one of the most awesome Chaplins in CAP - someone who totally "got it", sadly he moved to another wing.
You may have worked with him as well.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I have indeed!

[GroundHawg]

I disagree. We have Chaplains for a reason. If you don't agree with the message then step out of the room, or plan an alternate activity if you believe there are more than just you that are not interested.

That's not how it works.

Please explain to me how it works then. I would love to know.

[Eclipse]

I disagree. We have Chaplains for a reason. If you don't agree with the message then step out of the room, or plan an alternate activity if you believe there are more than just you that are not interested.

That's not how it works.

Please explain to me how it works then. I would love to know.

We already did, read the thread.

[MacGruff]

I have yet hear a CAP chaplain meet the requirements. As an atheist I just don't care, but seems interfaith is NOT something they can handle...

I worked with one of the most awesome Chaplins in CAP - someone who totally "got it", sadly he moved to another wing.
You may have worked with him as well.

Was his first name Charlie?

[GroundHawg]

I disagree. We have Chaplains for a reason. If you don't agree with the message then step out of the room, or plan an alternate activity if you believe there are more than just you that are not interested.

That's not how it works.

Please explain to me how it works then. I would love to know.

We already did, read the thread.

I read it, I cant find where anything I said was wrong. It seems to me that it works exactly as I suggested?

[Eclipse]

I read it, I cant find where anything I said was wrong. It seems to me that it works exactly as I suggested?

What "works"?  Is he giving a fully non-denominational invocation? 

Because if he isn't, he's violating regs and policy in that regard.

Also, this idea that it is somehow "OK" to alienate members. for any reason, is so misguided it is hard to know where to start.
What if they "disagree with the message" to the point that they don't come back?

Or does that "work" too?

[Майор Хаткевич]

Don't want their kind around anyway.

[Critical AOA]

CAP is not a religious organization, it is a secular one.  As such, all religious practices such as prayer should not be allowed.  Do it at home or in your church. Don't waste the time of others. 

Non-denominational prayers are a practical impossibility.  In fact to call it non-denominational is somewhat of a fallacy or at least a misnomer. A denomination as it refers to religion is a subcategory of a given religion.  For example, in christianity, your denomination could be catholic, methodist, lutheran, etc.  In islam it could be shiite or sunni.  Christianity and islam themselves are entirely separate religions, not denominations. 

As such, by even referring to a prayer or other activity as non-denominational, you are assuming that it is of a particular religion such as christianity and thereby are excluding other religions.  I as do most rational people choose to dismiss all religions as false just as the members of any given religion dismiss all others. 

As a prayer is a call to a higher power or a god or other mythical creature; the person saying the prayer is in fact calling out to their particular god (or whatever).  To actually or pretend to be calling out to all gods or any other gods as well as your own would be hypocritical and throw your own faith into question.  That is the problem with so called non-denominational / multi religion prayers.  They simply cannot be as not all religions believe in the same god.

I will not attend an organization that has prayers as part of its program. I have no issues with a moment of silence so each person can reflect in a manner that fits their particular belief.  And if someone wants to say a silent prayer during the moment of silence rather than pondering something real, that is their option.  I don't care.  Just don't expect me to listen respectfully to someone's nonsense.

[SunDog]

Most of us use the term non- denomiational in a generic way, to mean " no specific religion". Whether that is Webster's definition or not isn't too relevant in lay conversation.

You have a point, as in CAP  is secular, and someone can choose to pray elsewhen and where. I don't have a denomination or sect; but I don't have your level of contempt for those that do. Maybe a little tolerance for our brother and sister officers isn't a bad thing. It doesn't cost me much (a minute or two) to stand quietly and listen. Most of my sqdn has religion - and they don't inconvenience me, or push it; we do CAP stuff. Every now and then, at a special event, they start with a prayer. I suffer no ill effects from it.

Years ago I went out to fly, an 0200 launch from a hot steamy place, going into moderate harms way. On pre-flight I was startled by a chaplain blessing my aircraft. I was touched by his dedication and concern, out in the mid-watch. I came back from the mission, so he did no apparent harm. And I got some good vibes, as in "someone DOES  care". I think the encounter  tightened my focus a bit, too.

While you and I may THINK religion is just mysticism, it is POSSIBLE we are wrong. We lack the insight, perception and raw data to be certain. It ain't scientific to state the position as a fact.  You don't have to listen closely; think about your taxes, or next haircut.

[Critical AOA]

You'd be much better off having me lay my hands on your airplane and "blessing" it than a chaplain. 

[Eclipse]

While you and I may THINK religion is just mysticism, it is POSSIBLE we are wrong. We lack the insight, perception and raw data to be certain. It ain't scientific to state the position as a fact.  You don't have to listen closely; think about your taxes, or next haircut.

That's the point - because it faith, it should be left at home.

If members are inclined to invocations or prayers, instead of alienating some by making them an official part of the agenda, those who wish to pray should
separate themselves in a discrete way, have their prayer and come back - preferably before or after the meeting or activity, not during.

[Майор Хаткевич]

While you and I may THINK religion is just mysticism, it is POSSIBLE we are wrong. We lack the insight, perception and raw data to be certain. It ain't scientific to state the position as a fact.  You don't have to listen closely; think about your taxes, or next haircut.

That's the point - because it faith, it should be left at home.

If members are inclined to invocations or prayers, instead of alienating some by making them an official part of the agenda, those who wish to pray should
separate themselves in a discrete way, have their prayer and come back - preferably before or after the meeting or activity, not during.

+1.

I'll at times omit "Under God" when I say the Pledge of Allegiance. Partly because I know the history behind it, partly because if I say that part, then it's not really a binding pledge to me. So be it. But if I'm asked to lead the unit in reciting the pledge, then I say all the words.

[Critical AOA]

I'll at times omit "Under God" when I say the Pledge of Allegiance. Partly because I know the history behind it, partly because if I say that part, then it's not really a binding pledge to me. So be it. But if I'm asked to lead the unit in reciting the pledge, then I say all the words.

I also omit that addition to the pledge when I say it.  I always decline in leading the pledge as it would sound awkward if I omitted that part and others said it.  I know, I did it once.   

I got into an argument with a religious nut over the pledge one time.  I made the statement that "under god" should be removed from the pledge as not everyone believes in god.  His reply was that "you atheists are always trying to change American traditions.  When I informed him that phrase was not in the original pledge but rather was added late in the history of the pledge and thus it was the christians not the atheists who were changing American traditions, he called me a liar.  When I showed him a history of the pledge, his response was "well it is in there now and its god's will that it is".  When I asked him how he knew it was god's will.  He said "because that's what I believe".   

Ahhh... faith.

[JeffDG]

I don't recite the Pledge of Allegiance at all...had precisely one person ever ask me about it, and my explanation settled the issue pretty easily.

[FlyTiger77]

I don't recite the Pledge of Allegiance at all...had precisely one person ever ask me about it, and my explanation settled the issue pretty easily.

That's un-'Merican...oh, wait. It's YOU!!

[JeffDG]

I don't recite the Pledge of Allegiance at all...had precisely one person ever ask me about it, and my explanation settled the issue pretty easily.

That's un-'Merican...oh, wait. It's YOU!!

It's like whenever people sing "My Country 'Tis of Thee" I get all frustrated that they don't know the words to "God Save the Queen"

[SunDog]

LOL! O.K., so much for tolerance and courtesy : )

The outrage seems a bit out of proportion, guys. But so be it. Other things to occupy my time. Adios. . .

[Майор Хаткевич]

LOL! O.K., so much for tolerance and courtesy : )

The outrage seems a bit out of proportion, guys. But so be it. Other things to occupy my time. Adios. . .

I tolerate. Had I cared, I don't think there's much courtesy extended to those who are not unidiety-believing. That isn't just Atheists, but Buddists, Wiccans, Hindus, Gaia believers, UFO Ubductees, etc.

[Critical AOA]

I don't recite the Pledge of Allegiance at all...had precisely one person ever ask me about it, and my explanation settled the issue pretty easily.

That's un-'Merican...oh, wait. It's YOU!!

It's like whenever people sing "My Country 'Tis of Thee" I get all frustrated that they don't know the words to "God Save the Queen"

Ha!  Deities and royalty.  Two things that I don't believe in though one actually does exist... unfortunately.