Height & AF-Style Uniforms

[Sentinel]

I'm looking to get involved with CAP in the very near future. I've asked this question to, well, whoever in my my prospective squadron answers the emails, but he didn't know for sure, so I'd like to see if any of y'all might have an idea.

I'm a proportionate dwarf, standing at 4'6". Were I 4 inches taller, I'd be at the minimum height on every U.S. military height-and-weight chart out there. I know for a fact that I'd also be within the bounds of acceptable weights, and I have some muscle to fill out any slightly-large clothing, so I shouldn't look sloppy in an AF-style uniform. However, since I'm too short to technically be able to reach any weight standards, does this mean I can't wear any AF-style uniforms? It won't affect whether I join, but I was just curious.

Thanks in advance.

[PHall]

Okay, you're 4'6", how much do you weigh?

[RogueLeader]

Excellent question. I think that you should be ok, but I would request that this be sent to national headquarters for clarification.

[Sentinel]

Okay, you're 4'6", how much do you weigh?

I'm about 103 lbs right now, give or take a pound or two, at a healthy body fat %

Excellent question. I think that you should be ok, but I would request that this be sent to national headquarters for clarification.

Thanks, I'll see about sending it

[Eclipse]

You don't say whether you are male or female, but you raise an interesting question.

4' 10" is the low end of the CAP chart, and at that weight your max weight can be (M)164lbs or (F)145lbs.

4' 6" puts you at ~93% of that height, which extrapolation would mean you could weight (M)153lbs or (F)135lbs,
that's one way to get to a number, but I know that's not necessarily how it works.

My advice would be to get a ruling from NHQ, if for no other reason then to have a gauge in your file.
You're probably not going to have an issue, but CAP can't really have you at the min weight allowed on the chart at your
height as you'd clearly be in excess of the appearance standard, if not the number.

[RogueLeader]

Okay, you're 4'6", how much do you weigh?

I'm about 103 lbs right now, give or take a pound or two, at a healthy body fat %

Excellent question. I think that you should be ok, but I would request that this be sent to national headquarters for clarification.

Thanks, I'll see about sending it

Just as a note, you don't. It needs to go through the chain of command from your soon to be squadron commander.

[Spam]

CAP can't really have you at the min weight allowed on the chart at your
height as you'd clearly be in excess of the appearance standard, if not the number.

Eclipse, I don't understand what you're saying here, Sir. Min weight is unsat, and "clearly" would not meet the "appearance standard", when grooming hasn't even been mentioned here?


Sentinel, be prepared that NHQ may reply that they don't have the authority to waiver the wear of the uniform for you if you're below DoD height standards (see CAPM 39-1, para. 1.5.1.6, below). Its not that they don't want to - its that they cannot, as they don't "own" the USAF uniform. I went through something similar to this many years ago on behalf of one of my senior members who held a 4 foot something stature.  Regardless, please do ask, and know that I hope you'll not be discouraged; we need good people in CAP, regardless of physical build.


V/r
Spam


M39-1, 1.5.1.6. "CAP does not have waiver authority of this type for USAF-style uniforms.
Members requiring a waiver should consider wearing the Corporate-style uniform. Commanders who
have identified a cadet with a potential requirement for a waiver should contact NHQ/DP for direction".

[NIN]

ehh, nobody contacts NHQ when we have a small cadet and asks for a size waiver or something.

[Eclipse]

ehh, nobody contacts NHQ when we have a small cadet and asks for a size waiver or something.

+1

This is no different then if Manute Bol joined at 7' 7" but was NBA weight ratio.  No one would tell him
he couldn't wear a USAF combo just because the chart ends before he does.

There's a difference between asking to be heavier when you'r eon the chart and asking for advice when
you don't fit within the chart.

[RogueLeader]

ehh, nobody contacts NHQ when we have a small cadet and asks for a size waiver or something.

True, but cadets must wear the air force style unless they are over the weight standards at the age of 18. So the waiver is already written in.

[PHall]

CAP can't really have you at the min weight allowed on the chart at your
height as you'd clearly be in excess of the appearance standard, if not the number.

Eclipse, I don't understand what you're saying here, Sir. Min weight is unsat, and "clearly" would not meet the "appearance standard", when grooming hasn't even been mentioned here?


Sentinel, be prepared that NHQ may reply that they don't have the authority to waiver the wear of the uniform for you if you're below DoD height standards (see CAPM 39-1, para. 1.5.1.6, below). Its not that they don't want to - its that they cannot, as they don't "own" the USAF uniform. I went through something similar to this many years ago on behalf of one of my senior members who held a 4 foot something stature.  Regardless, please do ask, and know that I hope you'll not be discouraged; we need good people in CAP, regardless of physical build.


V/r
Spam


M39-1, 1.5.1.6. "CAP does not have waiver authority of this type for USAF-style uniforms.
Members requiring a waiver should consider wearing the Corporate-style uniform. Commanders who
have identified a cadet with a potential requirement for a waiver should contact NHQ/DP for direction".

Where did you get your Min Weight number?   The chart, (CAPM 39-1, 26 JUNE 2014, Attachment 2), does not list a minimum weight, just maximum weights.

[Eclipse]

ehh, nobody contacts NHQ when we have a small cadet and asks for a size waiver or something.

True, but cadets must wear the air force style unless they are over the weight standards at the age of 18. So the waiver is already written in.

There's no chart to waiver, noting is "written in".

[etodd]

I'm looking to get involved with CAP in the very near future.

Well gee ... let me be the first in this thread to say it would be nice to have you join. There are a lot of great opportunities for you in CAP. Don't let the uniform issue get you down. There are always options.  Visit your local squadron a few times and get to know the folks there. 

[MSG Mac]

Simply wear the optional grey and white  or the Polo combination.

[Sentinel]

In case anyone was still wondering, I'd used the "Contact" form on gocivilairpatrol.com and was emailed the following response:

There are no Civil Air Patrol height restrictions or minimums to wear the AF-style uniforms, so you are authorized to wear any of the AF-style CAP uniforms.

Thanks for your comments, everyone. Whether I end up wearing the corporate uniform or the AF-style, I hope to do it justice.

[Eclipse]

There are no Civil Air Patrol height restrictions or minimums to wear the AF-style uniforms, so you are authorized to wear any of the AF-style CAP uniforms.

Thanks for your comments, everyone. Whether I end up wearing the corporate uniform or the AF-style, I hope to do it justice.

2-for-2 on the KB today.

Like a response from Microsoft Tech Support, the answer is technically correct, but does not address the actual question.

[Ned]

Like a response from Microsoft Tech Support, the answer is technically correct, but does not address the actual question.

What am I missing?  It looks like a spot-on answer to a valued prospective member.

Here was the question:

However, since I'm too short to technically be able to reach any weight standards, does this mean I can't wear any AF-style uniforms?

And here was the NHQ-provided answer:

There are no Civil Air Patrol height restrictions or minimums to wear the AF-style uniforms, so you are authorized to wear any of the AF-style CAP uniforms.

Looks like a complete response to me.

[Eclipse]

There are no Civil Air Patrol height restrictions or minimums to wear the AF-style uniforms, so you are authorized to wear any of the AF-style CAP uniforms.

Looks like a complete response to me.

There's no height restrictions, but there certainly are weight restrictions.

Per CAPM 39-1, Page 119:
1. Members who are aged 18 and older must meet CAP weight standards in order to wear the USAF-style
uniform.

There's no question there's no height restrictions.  The question (presumably) is what you do when someone
is not on the chart which, based on regulations, would preclude wear of the USAF-style uniform(s), regardless,
since there is no standard to meet.

It doesn't say "those on the chart are exempt".

Would it be perfectly OK for a member who is 4' - 9" to weigh 300lbs? How about 6'-9" & 400lbs?

[Ned]

I keep forgetting how eager you are to find fault with anyone else, especially NHQ. 

A question was asked by a valued prospective member; it was answered promptly, directly, and completely.



I continue to be puzzled by you response that the answer "does not address the actual question" when it plainly does so.  The fact that it did not address hypothetical questions that were not asked seems logically unrelated to your expressed concerns.

This is especially puzzling after you wisely advised the prospective member: "My advice would be to get a ruling from NHQ."  Which he did.

So, I'm still not seeing it.  I suppose there is no reason that I need to be convinced.

Have a nice night.

[Spam]

In case anyone was still wondering, I'd used the "Contact" form on gocivilairpatrol.com and was emailed the following response:

There are no Civil Air Patrol height restrictions or minimums to wear the AF-style uniforms, so you are authorized to wear any of the AF-style CAP uniforms.

Thanks for your comments, everyone. Whether I end up wearing the corporate uniform or the AF-style, I hope to do it justice.

That's great, Sentinel. You got a far better resolution than I managed to get for my member a while back.  Glad to have you on board!

V/r
Spam