CAP Policy -- Driving CAP Vehicles while Using Cellphones?

Started by RADIOMAN015, March 27, 2009, 10:55:47 PM

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Eclipse

He-said / she said, at this point - I guess you're not "getting" that I don't buy these studies as the sole cause of the accident.  "Within ten minutes of the accident?"  A "huge sampling of 699 accidents?  Come on.

I'll leave this to someone else.

I'm sure its occurred to you and others that its possible most of these people are just bad drivers and they way they use their cel phones, put on makeup, lack attention, etc., is a symptom of their being poor operators and not the other way around.

...Denny Crane...



"That Others May Zoom"

jimmydeanno

I agree that we're not going to get very far with this.  But I think that the last source I posted does a good job in highlighting that an individuals willingness to use cell phones while driving is a good indicator of that individuals willingness to participate in other risky/aggressive behaviors while driving.

But then again I would be interested in any documentation/studies to counter, if you feel so inclined.

But, like I said before, I don't think we need to prohibit it through regulation, just common sense [I hope] should suffice.  There's no point in catching up on your gossip for the week while transporting the cadets around or taking casual phone calls.

I don't think we have our drivers painting their toenails while drinking coffee, talking on their cell phones and changing their clothes.  Our 'vetting' process of checking driving records, driving test, etc appears to work pretty well.

I think that Jefferson said it best though, "Every difference in opinion is not a difference in principle."
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

AirDX

It's moot here, since it's been illegal on base for a couple of years and illegal in the state since 1 July 09.  I'd say make it a CAP reg in a second.
Believe in fate, but lean forward where fate can see you.

BillB

What is the difference in using a cell phone while driving a CAP van and using a VHF radio while driving a CAP van?
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

Thom

Quote from: BillB on August 18, 2009, 07:36:22 PM
What is the difference in using a cell phone while driving a CAP van and using a VHF radio while driving a CAP van?

We'll not have any of this 'logic' you are using!  Not in this forum!



;D


Thom Hamilton

jimmydeanno

Quote from: Eclipse on March 28, 2009, 03:46:34 PM
Perhaps you could cite the study which shows the number of CAP corporate vehicle accidents over the last five years that were attributable to a driver distracted by in-car technology?

Our wing had two vehicle accidents in June, in the same week.  A few weeks later a wing policy came out that prohibited the use of talking on the cell phone while driving a corporate vehicle.

Coincidence?
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

PHall

Quote from: jimmydeanno on August 18, 2009, 09:09:56 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on March 28, 2009, 03:46:34 PM
Perhaps you could cite the study which shows the number of CAP corporate vehicle accidents over the last five years that were attributable to a driver distracted by in-car technology?

Our wing had two vehicle accidents in June, in the same week.  A few weeks later a wing policy came out that prohibited the use of talking on the cell phone while driving a corporate vehicle.

Coincidence?

Well, it was already prohibited DOD-wide already so it will be just a matter of time before CAP follows suit.

If for nothing else that it's good "eye wash" for the BoG to show that we take safety seriously.

Airrace

California has a law preventing you from driving a vechicle and talking on a cell phone. You must have a hands free device or you get a ticket.

SarDragon

Quote from: BillB on August 18, 2009, 07:36:22 PM
What is the difference in using a cell phone while driving a CAP van and using a VHF radio while driving a CAP van?

For the most part, it's pick up the mike and talk, when operating a radio. There's more involved in using a cell phone, not the least of which is dialing the number. A channel change on a radio is much simpler, and requiring only one hand and a quick look or two at the front of the unit.

YMMV.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

wuzafuzz

I'm going to jump on this bandwagon and write my local congress critter:


  • How in the world do those pilots fly their planes and talk on the radio?  There oughtta be a law!
  • What's up with those cops talking on radios while they drive?  There oughtta be a law!
  • I saw a mall security guard the other day...he was talking on his radio and phone while WALKING, without so much as a safety helmet!  Outrageous I tell you!
  • I spent nearly an hour on the phone while driving today.  I've been doing it since the early 90's.  No accidents but it's only a matter of time...somebody stop me before I demonstrate mere competence again!

Anyone who cannot talk and drive at the same time shouldn't be driving in the first place.   >:D  I've been doing it for years, talking on police radios, cell phones, ham radios, business radios, and airband radios, all while driving.  No accidents or close calls.  Some people simply multitask better than others.  Making the rest of us conform to rules written for the least capable members of the herd is outright insulting. 

Simply enforce distracted or reckless driving laws for those who prove themselves incapable of using good judgment.  A law won't slow most of them down anyway.  CAP can make it's own rules; I agreed to follow the rules as long as I am a member.  If rules get too stupid I just won't be a member.
"You can't stop the signal, Mal."

EMT-83

^ I used to think like that. I've always had a two-way radio in my vehicle, and then a "car phone" before cellular became hand held. Never had a problem.

However, being a road warrior, I see idiots out there every day that absolutely cannot hold a lane while taking on the phone. I see them run red lights and stop signs while merrily chatting away.

As far as CAP vehicles go, communications should be the responsibility of the passenger (assuming one is on board). While driving fire apparatus, I never use the radio – that's up to the guy in the right seat. My job is to operate the vehicle.

RiverAux

There is no question that people talking on a cell phone are nowhere near as safe as someone that isn't on the cell phone.  Don't think I've seen much regarding radio type use while driving (contrary to the implication of my earlier post).  But those conversations tend to be really short and you don't get as involved in them as you do while on the phone.  So, I think I probably would be ok with a CAP policy to this effect (if it isn't already the law in your state). 

Airrace

Since we are talking about the safety of our passengers then what does it hurt to just pull over to the side of the road and make a phone call on your cell phone. Seems it well worth the safety of our passengers.

davidsinn

Quote from: Airrace on August 20, 2009, 12:19:02 PM
Since we are talking about the safety of our passengers then what does it hurt to just pull over to the side of the road and make a phone call on your cell phone. Seems it well worth the safety of our passengers.

That is frequently more dangerous than driving and talking. That's assuming it's even possible in the first place. Some places it's illegal or there isn't a wide enough shoulder. Ever driven through Chicago?
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn

Gunner C

Quote from: wuzafuzz on August 20, 2009, 02:39:25 AM
I'm going to jump on this bandwagon and write my local congress critter:


  • How in the world do those pilots fly their planes and talk on the radio?  There oughtta be a law!
  • What's up with those cops talking on radios while they drive?  There oughtta be a law!
  • I saw a mall security guard the other day...he was talking on his radio and phone while WALKING, without so much as a safety helmet!  Outrageous I tell you!
  • I spent nearly an hour on the phone while driving today.  I've been doing it since the early 90's.  No accidents but it's only a matter of time...somebody stop me before I demonstrate mere competence again!

Anyone who cannot talk and drive at the same time shouldn't be driving in the first place.   >:D  I've been doing it for years, talking on police radios, cell phones, ham radios, business radios, and airband radios, all while driving.  No accidents or close calls.  Some people simply multitask better than others.  Making the rest of us conform to rules written for the least capable members of the herd is outright insulting. 

Simply enforce distracted or reckless driving laws for those who prove themselves incapable of using good judgment.  A law won't slow most of them down anyway.  CAP can make it's own rules; I agreed to follow the rules as long as I am a member.  If rules get too stupid I just won't be a member.

Let's add to the list:


  • Eating/Drinking
  • Talking to date/girlfriend/wife
  • Listening to (liberal/conservative) talk radio
  • Reading a map
  • Farding
But since the commonality of common sense is in question, it's necessary to instruct/force people to think.  IOW think for them.  Unfortunate, but true.

jimmydeanno

I noted that I'm not in favor of adding the restriction to the regulations earlier.  However, it should be noted that most states have "distracted driving" laws, which could apply to cell phone use if it was impeding your ability to drive, or was the cause of you violating the laws.

We're already required to comply with local traffic laws when driving a corporate vehicle.  If one of us crashes and the cop says, "what happened here."  The other driver might just say, "Well, he was on his cell phone/radio/laptop/etc and swerved and hit me."  Distracted driving.

EDIT: A distracted driving ticket could be used as grounds for revocation of your CAP driver's license.  So, it's a self correcting problem.

Some things I've noticed when people drive while talking on their phones:

1) For some reason their necks loose the ability to turn.  They no longer look over their shoulder and check their blind spot as though they are tethered to a 2 foot cord.

2) They tilt their heads toward the ear they're talking into, giving them a weird vantage point on the road.

3) They aren't as attentive to the speed their doing; some slow way down some go faster.

I have bluetooth integrated in my car, so I don't have to hold the phone.  I notice a huge difference in my wife's driving when she's using the bluetooth as opposed to holding the phone.  She doesn't swerve/jerk the wheel as much.  Her driving is less eratic and she sees more of what is going on around her.
If you have ten thousand regulations you destroy all respect for the law. - Winston Churchill

PHall

Quote from: davidsinn on August 20, 2009, 01:24:28 PM
Quote from: Airrace on August 20, 2009, 12:19:02 PM
Since we are talking about the safety of our passengers then what does it hurt to just pull over to the side of the road and make a phone call on your cell phone. Seems it well worth the safety of our passengers.

That is frequently more dangerous than driving and talking. That's assuming it's even possible in the first place. Some places it's illegal or there isn't a wide enough shoulder. Ever driven through Chicago?

Simple cure for that, exit the expressway. See, it's that simple.

davedove

It seems to me that if we are talking about CAP vehicles, most of the time there will be more than one person in the vehicle.  ??? Just let the person in the passenger seat answer the phone.
David W. Dove, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Personnel/PD/Asst. Testing Officer
Ground Team Leader
Frederick Composite Squadron
MER-MD-003

Eclipse

Quote from: PHall on August 20, 2009, 05:52:27 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on August 20, 2009, 01:24:28 PM
Quote from: Airrace on August 20, 2009, 12:19:02 PM
Since we are talking about the safety of our passengers then what does it hurt to just pull over to the side of the road and make a phone call on your cell phone. Seems it well worth the safety of our passengers.

That is frequently more dangerous than driving and talking. That's assuming it's even possible in the first place. Some places it's illegal or there isn't a wide enough shoulder. Ever driven through Chicago?

Simple cure for that, exit the expressway. See, it's that simple.

You'd might be surprised how complicated exiting a Chicago expressway can be...


"That Others May Zoom"

davidsinn

Quote from: PHall on August 20, 2009, 05:52:27 PM
Quote from: davidsinn on August 20, 2009, 01:24:28 PM
Quote from: Airrace on August 20, 2009, 12:19:02 PM
Since we are talking about the safety of our passengers then what does it hurt to just pull over to the side of the road and make a phone call on your cell phone. Seems it well worth the safety of our passengers.

That is frequently more dangerous than driving and talking. That's assuming it's even possible in the first place. Some places it's illegal or there isn't a wide enough shoulder. Ever driven through Chicago?

You clearly have never driven in Chicago. To put it simply: those people can't drive. I have no clue how they got a license. I have no idea how they are still alive with some of the crap I've seen on those roads. That's assuming of course traffic is moving.

Simple cure for that, exit the expressway. See, it's that simple.
Former CAP Captain
David Sinn