Patron Members Going Active

[MidwaySix]

Hi Folks,

As it is the weekend, I'm going to reach out to you guys for some advice.

In the last few weeks, I've had 3 members of the National Patron Member Squadron approach me about joining my unit, as officers.

Does anyone have any experience with transferring NPS members to active status in their unit? I checked the Knowledge Base, and it says they need a 2a and Fingerprint Card sent to NHQ.

What about dues? They paid $35 to join the NPS... does this make it a discounted way to join up? ...or do they need to send more money?

Also, note that the Transfer Tool in eServices shows them as members, but flagged. (so that won't work.)

They seem to be nice guys, and I look forward to serving with them. Any insight you can shine this way would be appreciated.

Thanks,

-M6

[MIKE]

Normally changes in status are freebie's for the remainder of the membership year.  They'll pay the going rate for an Active Member senior renewal at their next renewal.

[DNall]

2a (old-fashioned transfer) & fingerprint card (since they didn't have one as patrons) is right. Of course they should be restored to any previous grade, yada yada, do CPPT & OPSEC. I think they can go ahead & do GES. Then you can get them doing ICS 100, 200, 700, 800 online, assuming they are interested in ES.

I don't know about the money, I'd be curious what the answer is. It'd be the prorated dif for the rest of the membership year or nothing, I'm betting nothing. My point though is you got some stuff you can keep them busy with between here & monday to call & ask.

[pixelwonk]

Having done the whole recruiting gig at the last EAA, they were pushing patron membership and I can guarantee (as of this writing)  with all certainty that they don't have to "insert coins" to continue play. Their anniversary date of becoming a patron member is the date they pay full dues.

[DNall]

Interesting. Bet they'd get pissed if we start abusing that loop hole.

[Pylon]

Interesting. Bet they'd get pissed if we start abusing that loop hole.

Yep - but it's a good way to get parents and others in the door cheap and ease them into the SM thing without hitting them up front with all of the cost associated with Come And Pay.   Become a Cadet Sponsor Member or Patron Member for whatever it is these days... $35, let's say...  see if you like it.  Come to meetings, hang around, see if you like what we've got going on... and if you do, fill out a few forms and we can transfer you to full SM status without additional cost.

Is it a loophole that can be abused?  Yep.  But it also provides a way to ease people into CAP, slowly, and allow them to decide it's not for them without too much invested up front.

YMMV

[pixelwonk]

If you have a recruiting officer or commander touting the patron membership for "a month or two" then full membership, that person needs a swift wall-to-wall counseling.  Even still, it's hard for me to envision substantial abuse of that loophole anyway.   

If it's used to attract the perhaps hesitant, but quality people, in the long run it becomes an investment that's well worth the money sacrificed. 

[Pylon]

If you have a recruiting officer or commander touting the patron membership for "a month or two" then full membership, that person needs a swift wall-to-wall counseling.  Even still, it's hard for me to envision substantial abuse of that loophole anyway.   

If it's used to attract the perhaps hesitant, but quality people, in the long run it becomes an investment that's well worth the money sacrificed. 

Yep, perhaps I thought it but apparently didn't write it -- I meant what I wrote as directed towards people who might otherwise be hesitant about joining CAP... worried about the commitment, cost, involvement, etc.  Those who aren't sure CAP is for them, but are willing to try it out.   For parents especially, cadet sponsor status might not be a bad way to start them out - they can chaperon some activities, get a feel for CAP, and see if it's really for them.

If that's how you try to bring in all your members, that really is abusing the loophole.

[DNall]

Core Values aside (the ultimate dangerous statement), I'm not touting anything, and since this was till now unknown I'm sure no one else is either, but... why do you care if national misses out on $25, or the reg/Wg miss 5 bucks or so one time & one time only. Zero of those dollars come back to or in any way support your Sq, and most of it goes to excessive administration which only really adds work for you cause they got nothing else to do. All member dues combined account for less than 8% of the annual budget anyway, this doesn't even make drop in the bucket.

Now I realize integrity should prevent you from abusing this, not to mention some extra paperwork, and you should address the issue with a subordinate commander if it happens, but wall-to-wall? That's excessive in the extreme.

[Eclipse]

Patron members = USELESS.  Numbers on the page for NHQ, additional admin for the unit.  Waste of my time, save it.

Sponsor members, better, if they are willing to actually step up and occasionally help, but I'd still prefer they join fully or stay out.

Invariably the sponsors want to come and "chaparone / drive" during "neato" ES activities, etc., and then you have the uncomfrotable conversations then, anyway, vs. during initial recruiting.

Nice to see some PM's stepping up, though.

[pixelwonk]

That's excessive in the extreme.

I'm not the one who said they'd get rid of overweight persons in CAP.
Pot... Pot, this is Kettle. Copy black? Over... 


If you really think I meant a CC deserves physical abuse for abusing a membership loophole, then perhaps you ought to take a course on wit, Mr. Nall.

If we must be literal on this board, then I will reiterate my point just for you:
If you have a recruiting officer or commander touting the patron membership for "a month or two" then full membership, that person needs a complete and thorough counseling on CAP's membership categories and not to mention core values.  Subsequent violations should include appropriate action from higher echelons.

Are we clear?

[pixelwonk]

Patron members = USELESS.

They were never meant to be useful in the first place.

Is it so hard to accept a check and some paperwork from someone who wants to support the organization and get a magazine every other month?  As a squadron commander, amid other high-profile duty positions, I can reasonably assume you're busy, but how many Patron apps do you really get?

[Nick]

Patron members = USELESS.

Wow, thanks Bob.  I want to keep my membership active in CAP, but due to my CAP-USAF status I have limited options, so I become a patron member.  I never thought of myself as useless, but you have shown me the light.  Thank you.

[DNall]

That's excessive in the extreme.

I'm not the one who said they'd get rid of overweight persons in CAP.
Pot... Pot, this is Kettle. Copy black? Over... 

What? The only time I've said anything of that nature is ENCOURAGE fitness programs, require standards for GT IAW NIMS WSAR (nuff letters there), & in general professionalize the corps. I've never advocated throwing anyone out. Everything I've said has related to capabilities of the org & mission, not kissing the AF's butt, as if they'd care. Sorry if you misinterpreted or I misstated some previous position though.

If you really think I meant a CC deserves physical abuse for abusing a membership loophole, then perhaps you ought to take a course on wit, Mr. Nall.

If we must be literal on this board, then I will reiterate my point just for you:
If you have a recruiting officer or commander touting the patron membership for "a month or two" then full membership, that person needs a complete and thorough counseling on CAP's membership categories and not to mention core values.  Subsequent violations should include appropriate action from higher echelons.

Obviously I know you did not mean in the literal physical sense. I mean it is excessive to make the point forcefully. I don't think anyone including Wg would care in the slightest if NHQ got shorted a few bucks within the rules. I think all levels dealing in reality are going to care more about the member & grant ultimate latitude to local commanders. The only thing that would cause anyone to get even lightly spoken to is crap rolling down from above, and that gets softer each level it passes thru.

Patron members = USELESS.

Wow, thanks Bob.  I want to keep my membership active in CAP, but due to my CAP-USAF status I have limited options, so I become a patron member.  I never thought of myself as useless, but you have shown me the light.  Thank you.

Clearly an exception to the rule... though I like the idea to cover those breaks & still keep my junk intact. For the standard take check, get pagazine though, that's not very good. It'd be better if we just sold the subscription & didn't make it like we were begging for money. I don't like that kind of thing, it makes me real uncomfortable. Whatever though.

[Nick]

Clearly an exception to the rule... though I like the idea to cover those breaks & still keep my junk intact.

Yes, it is an exception to the rule, but there are a variety of situations where a patron membership is beneficial over an active membership and mine is just one of those situations.

[DNall]

Right, that's almost like a second thing, like reserve status, versus what patrom membership is really about. I would say that it's disingenous to count patron or sponsor members in the total membership number, and then go out & say "CAP's 5X,000 members conduct SaR ops on orders from AFRCC..." at the bottom of ervery story. I don't know if that number is included or not, honestly I hadn't looked in a good long whilte.

[Eclipse]

Patron members = USELESS.

Wow, thanks Bob.  I want to keep my membership active in CAP, but due to my CAP-USAF status I have limited options, so I become a patron member.  I never thought of myself as useless, but you have shown me the light.  Thank you.

Then transfer to the national holding squadron, Wing holding squadron or whatever.

Patron members still require a unit maintain their records properly, skew readiness numbers, and provide ZEE-RO benefit to the unit in return.

As indicated below, using a CAP-USAF exception doesn't justify the rule.

[NIN]

Then transfer to the national holding squadron, Wing holding squadron or whatever.

Patron members still require a unit maintain their records properly, skew readiness numbers, and provide ZEE-RO benefit to the unit in return.

As indicated below, using a CAP-USAF exception doesn't justify the rule.

I have three patron members in my unit.

They are reported on a separate line in my readiness report.

They do not skew my numbers (ie. my OPSEC report does not show patrons).  But they are dues paying members of my organization who, for whatever reason, have elected not to remain active for now. 

What you speak of is retention suicide.  I spend the extra $1 on squadron mailings and include my patron members, for example.  Reminds them that even though they're still "non-active," I still care about them.

[pixelwonk]

Numbers on the page for NHQ, additional admin for the unit.  Waste of my time, save it.

your time, above all is the most precious.

Patron members still require a unit maintain their records properly, skew readiness numbers, and provide ZEE-RO benefit to the unit in return.

I wonder how much benefit you provide in return for being such a constant
too your fellow CAP peers.

I am SO glad to be going patron now.  I hope my useless dues money helps your unit.  More so however, I'll request that it goes towards implementing PAWG uniform items for all since we all know you feel there isn't enough. 

[carnold1836]

I have several Patron/Cadet Sponsor members in my squadron and they are far from "= USELESS". My squadron hosts many group and wing activities through out the year and we would not be able to accomplish what we do with out their assistance. They do a ton of the behind the scenes work for us.

So don't blithely discount any member's worth until you see the whole picture and understand what the individual can contribute before calling them worthless.

BTW Tedda that has to be one of the best peeps you have made.