ABUs

[Honor Guardsman]

From RCLS

[abdsp51]

From RCLS

Again cite otherwise is hearsay.

[Майор Хаткевич]

That was the nat.conference ABU. Nothing official yet.

[Eclipse]

From RCLS

Again cite otherwise is hearsay.

Seriously. That rumor doesn't even match the publicly available briefing on proposed changes.

[Angus]

The only part I've heard from that via Wing CC is that the flag patch is supposed to go away.  The premise behind the idea is that it will bring us more in line with the AF since they don't wear the flag patch on their field uniform. 

We should see it in the new 39-1 supposedly coming out in time for Christmas. 

[ColonelJack]

... the new 39-1 supposedly coming out in time for Christmas.

Which year?

Jack

[Angus]

... the new 39-1 supposedly coming out in time for Christmas.

Which year?

Jack

He said this Christmas, but as he's heard it before it was amended with a "hopefully"

[NIN]

The holdup will be the graphics.

Which are being worked on, but it takes time to get right.

But I know they want to get that right, unlike the last manual.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Two ribbon racks put together, upside down?

[Panache]

At our meeting last night, the CC passed along some info from Wing about uniform revisions.  Most of what was passed down has already been mentioned here (ABU's, new 39-1 is December, holdup on new 39-1 is pictures, the exact shade of blue of tapes/grade is still be finalized but will probably be navy, patches will be optional on ABU outfit, no US flag on ABU).  I bring this us because this is the first "official" confirmation we've gotten about this from the chain of command.

[abdsp51]

At our meeting last night, the CC passed along some info from Wing about uniform revisions.  Most of what was passed down has already been mentioned here (ABU's, new 39-1 is December, holdup on new 39-1 is pictures, the exact shade of blue of tapes/grade is still be finalized but will probably be navy, patches will be optional on ABU outfit, no US flag on ABU).  I bring this us because this is the first "official" confirmation we've gotten about this from the chain of command.

Patches already are optionial outside of grade, tapes and the flag, unless there is an approved supplement.

[NIN]

At our meeting last night, the CC passed along some info from Wing about uniform revisions.  Most of what was passed down has already been mentioned here (ABU's, new 39-1 is December, holdup on new 39-1 is pictures, the exact shade of blue of tapes/grade is still be finalized but will probably be navy, patches will be optional on ABU outfit, no US flag on ABU).  I bring this us because this is the first "official" confirmation we've gotten about this from the chain of command.

Patches already are optionial outside of grade, tapes and the flag, unless there is an approved supplement.

Patches may be optional for *some* things.

If your wing has a wing patch, and your wing commander has said "We wear wing patches on our utilities in this wing.." its not precisely "optional."

C/Amn Smith can't say "Sir, 39-1 says wing patches are optional, so I've opted out!" 

Likewise, if your unit has a patch and its been approved thru channels, then while its technically "optional" (as in "not all units must have a patch"), if your unit has said "We have a patch and its worn here.." then its not really "optional."

If you have attended an NCSA then you're authorized to wear or not wear your NCSA's patch at your option. Thats more like truly "optional" at the individual level.

[Eclipse]

If your wing has a wing patch, and your wing commander has said "We wear wing patches on our utilities in this wing.." its not precisely "optional."

C/Amn Smith can't say "Sir, 39-1 says wing patches are optional, so I've opted out!" 

Likewise, if your unit has a patch and its been approved thru channels, then while its technically "optional" (as in "not all units must have a patch"), if your unit has said "We have a patch and its worn here.." then its not really "optional."

I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree on both of the above.  if either of those echelons wants to make the regulations stronger, there is a
process for that, supplement, OI, etc.  "Because I said so..." doesn't fly in the face of regulations which restrict a given authority to a higher level.

[JeffDG]

If your wing has a wing patch, and your wing commander has said "We wear wing patches on our utilities in this wing.." its not precisely "optional."

C/Amn Smith can't say "Sir, 39-1 says wing patches are optional, so I've opted out!" 

Likewise, if your unit has a patch and its been approved thru channels, then while its technically "optional" (as in "not all units must have a patch"), if your unit has said "We have a patch and its worn here.." then its not really "optional."

I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree on both of the above.  if either of those echelons wants to make the regulations stronger, there is a
process for that, supplement, OI, etc.  "Because I said so..." doesn't fly in the face of regulations which restrict a given authority to a higher level.

OI won't cut it.

OIs only apply to the unit involved.  A Wing OI doesn't apply to anyone other than the -001 unit.  Only supplements apply to subordinate units.

[Eclipse]

I meant the OI for a unit patch, though I'm not sure that would be procedurally correct.

[Angus]

At our meeting last night, the CC passed along some info from Wing about uniform revisions.  Most of what was passed down has already been mentioned here (ABU's, new 39-1 is December, holdup on new 39-1 is pictures, the exact shade of blue of tapes/grade is still be finalized but will probably be navy, patches will be optional on ABU outfit, no US flag on ABU).  I bring this us because this is the first "official" confirmation we've gotten about this from the chain of command.

At the meeting I was at our Wing CC said ABU's weren't even requested yet. However I had heard something last year at RSC from people who were on the committee.   But we'll just have to wait and watch for if and when a new 39-1 comes out. 

[Walkman]

At the meeting I was at our Wing CC said ABU's weren't even requested yet. However I had heard something last year at RSC from people who were on the committee.   But we'll just have to wait and watch for if and when a new 39-1 comes out.

You may have missed this earlier thread: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=17800.0

[NIN]

If your wing has a wing patch, and your wing commander has said "We wear wing patches on our utilities in this wing.." its not precisely "optional."

C/Amn Smith can't say "Sir, 39-1 says wing patches are optional, so I've opted out!" 

Likewise, if your unit has a patch and its been approved thru channels, then while its technically "optional" (as in "not all units must have a patch"), if your unit has said "We have a patch and its worn here.." then its not really "optional."

I'm gonna have to go ahead and disagree on both of the above.  if either of those echelons wants to make the regulations stronger, there is a
process for that, supplement, OI, etc.  "Because I said so..." doesn't fly in the face of regulations which restrict a given authority to a higher level.

I suppose I mean that the "wing patches are worn in this wing" would be appropriately documented and authorized via supplement, not just the wing commander drolly waving his hand and saying "Make it so, Number One."

Same with the squadron.

But the definition of "optional" in terms of a wing or unit patch is "at the unit's option," not the individual's option.

IOW, the wing decides "OK, yeah, we're not getting rid of wing patches on BDUs" and has a duly promulgated & authorized supplement that says that. 


That way, C/SMSgt VentureCrew doesn't go "Oh, wing patches are optional per 39-1, so let me wear my Venturing patch there instead." (yes, I have the picture of this one) 

[Private Investigator]

If your wing has a wing patch, and your wing commander has said "We wear wing patches on our utilities in this wing.." its not precisely "optional."

Likewise, if your unit has a patch and its been approved thru channels, then while its technically "optional" (as in "not all units must have a patch"), if your unit has said "We have a patch and its worn here.." then its not really "optional."

#1, actually all Wings have a Wing patch.

#2, not all Squadrons or Groups have a patch. But Units that do have a Unit patch, I do not recall any that has made the Unit patch a mandatory uniform item.

[NIN]

If your wing has a wing patch, and your wing commander has said "We wear wing patches on our utilities in this wing.." its not precisely "optional."

Likewise, if your unit has a patch and its been approved thru channels, then while its technically "optional" (as in "not all units must have a patch"), if your unit has said "We have a patch and its worn here.." then its not really "optional."

#1, actually all Wings have a Wing patch.

#2, not all Squadrons or Groups have a patch. But Units that do have a Unit patch, I do not recall any that has made the Unit patch a mandatory uniform item.

As far as I know, my squadron's unit patch is a part of our uniform.  Its not like "here, you can wear this, or not wear this, whatever you feel like this week, dude."

At least, thats the way the squadron's operating instructions were written back when we first got the unit patch approved by wing.