D&C Question

[flyguy06]

This has been nagging at me since I got home from the SER Encampment and I cant find the solution so I was hoping someone on here may be able to help.

Now, My military career started off as a Plebe at a military college, so I have had my share of participating in military parades and pass in reviews and formations.

Now, I get accused a lot of doing things the Army way and true enough that is what I know so, I have looked through AF D&C Manuals and cant find the answer.

Ok, in a Squadron formation (Which I equate to a Company) When the Squadron Commander says "SQUADRON", the Flight Commanders say "FLIGHT" then the Squadron Commander gives the command of execution of "ATTENTION" ok, I am cool with that. Thats how we do it in the army.

Now, here is where it gets fuzzy. In a Group Formation (which I equate to a Battalion)
When the Group Commander says "GROUP",the Squadron Commanders say "SQUADRON", ok, now what I saw at this encampment was the Flight Commanders would then say "FLIGHT" I am not cool with that. I am used to the spplemental command being one level down and not two. In other words The Group Commander would say "GROUP" and the Squadron Commanders would say "SQUADRON" and thats it, the Group CC then says "ATTENTION" It would not be echoed a third time. If it were say a Wing formation, the command would go fromthe Wing Commander to the Group Commanders and thats it. In a Battalion formation,the Battalion Commander says "BATTALION", the Company Commanders say "COMPANY", the Platoon Leaders do not say anything. Now if it were a Company formation then the Platoon Leaders would say "PLATOON"

In other words the command only goes one level down. When I saw this I was taken aback, because again, I have been in many many (too many) miliytary parades and formations) and I have never seen the command go down two levles. Again, I looked in AF drill manuals and couldnt find the answer.

So, does anyone know the correct answer? Dont tel me what youare used to doing. tell me whats inthe regs and please quote the reg para # Thanks.

[NIN]

I don't have the D&C manual in front of me at the second...

But I've seen it done that way since, well, since I joined CAP as a cadet in 1981. And I'm not saying its right. I'm just saying "it is."

That having been said, I seem to recall that a group formation should consist of a squadron mass formation and NOT an squadron of individual flights, so perhaps therein lies an answer.

But you're right, you never hear "Battalion!" "Company!" "Platoon!"

Then again, maybe the AF wanted to do it that way for a reason...

[flyguy06]

Yeah, I looked at the regs on that and in a Group formation, you can wither have Squadrons in mass or Squadrons in line.

[BillB]

At an encampment, flights are kept together as much as possible. They are in same barracks, got to mess hall and eat together as a flight and so on. Encampments have Cadet Flight Commanders and Flt Sgts. So in a Squadron formation, you wouldn't need these positions and encampments like to fill as many cadet staff positions as possible. This is the background for not having a mass Squadron formation. So calling, Group, Squadron, Flight is perfectly acceptable.
Rarely do you ever see a squadron mass formation at an encampment unless it's a smaller size encampment.

[NIN]

Yeah, I looked at the regs on that and in a Group formation, you can wither have Squadrons in mass or Squadrons in line.

Hmmm, and I'm thinking that you don't drill with "Squadrons in Line" except for 'formational' kind of things, and you don't echo commands in mass. When you get into Group and larger formations, you really start down a road that only ever happens to most people 1 - 2 times a year, maximum.  So you do the best you can with the D&C manual and drive on.

Honestly, even in the Army I *swear* they were making some of the larger stuff up as they were going along. I was on my battalion's color guard and frequently got to represent the battalion at larger ceremonies and it was ALWAYS a little different every time. 

(Although, I seem to recall one of the more common formations being "battalion of companies in mass" but I could be mistaken. It was a darn long time ago..)

[flyguy06]

Yeah, I looked at the regs on that and in a Group formation, you can wither have Squadrons in mass or Squadrons in line.

Hmmm, and I'm thinking that you don't drill with "Squadrons in Line" except for 'formational' kind of things, and you don't echo commands in mass. When you get into Group and larger formations, you really start down a road that only ever happens to most people 1 - 2 times a year, maximum.  So you do the best you can with the D&C manual and drive on.

Honestly, even in the Army I *swear* they were making some of the larger stuff up as they were going along. I was on my battalion's color guard and frequently got to represent the battalion at larger ceremonies and it was ALWAYS a little different every time. 

(Although, I seem to recall one of the more common formations being "battalion of companies in mass" but I could be mistaken. It was a darn long time ago..)

You are correct that if Squadron is in mass, the Flioght Commanders would not echo commands. I'm not talking about drilling so much as I am talking about parade formations and commands. And yes, you can have Companies in mass formation.

[Gunner C]

As a practical matter, you only give supplemental commands down one level.  Truthfully, anything else gets redundant/silly.

Think of it this way - back in the day when the battlefield was a real field, the commander of troops would give commands to his maneuver elements, which were one echelon below him.  This is the type and shadow of what we have in drill and ceremonies today.  If a brigade was the highest level of command in the battle, the maneuver elements would have been battalions.

This is an over-simplification I know, but since D&C was invented to get soldiers to the point of the fight, it would make sense.  And for what it's worth, I've been in a corps sized formation (XVIII Airborne Corps) that did a pass in review.  Only divisions and separate brigades gave supplemental commands.  Think of that it would have sounded like:

CORPS!
DIVISION!
BRIGADE!
BATTALION!
COMPANY!
PLATOON!

AT-EASE!

You've already had 15% casualties in the hot sun! 

GC 

[lordmonar]

Not to mention...if you had a formation that large....there is no way you could hear the voice commands all the way in the back.

So....for your typical encampment....if you really had that many people where you had several groups.....consolidate your flights into squadrons and press on.

Otherwise just nix the group level commands.

[Brad]

Just a little FYI from the Navy side of things....or maybe it's just the NJROTC side of things, haha...we actually DID do the whole echoing, and we were already up at the Battalion level. 2 companies, 3 platoons each, plus a seperate staff platoon. About 160 cadets. Yes I know, why organize at the battalion level with those numbers? Regulations, that's all I'm saying.

Oh, and an FYI, my guys actually could hear my commands. Ok we were in the gym, but still, to be able to call out BATTALION, have it echoed as COMPANY then PLATOON, then give the command ATTENTION! and have everyone respond....that's just extremely cool.