Cadet Discipline

[AlaskanCadet]

I am new NCO an am disappointed with the level of discipline and commitmnet at my squadron. Amazingly most of it is done by me squadron staff. They sit and talk at ES training and do not even attend Moral Leadership, briefings on Academies and other things. Enlisted Cadets are not permitted to walk on the grass, but Staff are.

What can I do about this?
Discipline?

[lordmonar]

You're saying that you have no discipline because of RHIP?

There has got to be more to this.

As far as enforcing discipline...you start with with yourself.  Then you enforce the standard with any subordinates.  You continue to progress in you cadet career and when you are in a position of authority you enforce the standards.

In the mean time you talk to your peers and privately discuss the situation with your chain of command.

[IceNine]

h

In the mean time you talk to your peers and privately discuss the situation with your chain of command.

One thing to keep in mind however is that, spreading hate and discontent within the core of followers is just as destructive if not more so than the leaders with poor disicpline.

You have the power to make changes by setting and becoming the example to follow.  And the more you get looked at the more chance you have of becoming staff and eventually changing the whole feel of the unit

[ZigZag911]

Lead by personal example....and remember to keep doing so when you're the one wearing the cadet officer shoulder boards!

[jeders]

As all the others have said, set the example. If you surpass the standards, then it will be easier for for your followers to know how to meet the basic standards.

Also,

...[they] do not even attend Moral Leadership...

The cadets don't attend ML? They realize that ML is required for every promotion, right?

[AlaskanCadet]

They are at the meeting and sign in. Our squadron does it by, if you sing in and are at the meeting then they assume that you attend ML.

[Cobra1597]

They are at the meeting and sign in. Our squadron does it by, if you sing in and are at the meeting then they assume that you attend ML.

Then your Chaplain, MLO, or MLI aren't doing their job, and they'll probably get called on it for their next SUI.

[AlaskanCadet]

unfortunately we do not have an official MLO MLI or chaplain

[MIKE]

Not an acceptable excuse.

[Nathan]

Okay, let's blame the cadet staff sergeant then.

[addo1]

  I believe that getting around things like that violate our code of conduct.  From what I have read in this topic, there needs to be some squadron lessons about integrity.  If no one steps up and takes the role, since you say you have no Chaplain, MLO or such, then it becomes YOUR job to become the leader and set the example you want them to follow.  By setting the example, you have just stepped up into a leadership role where you can have others want to follow in your footsteps.

[Jolt]

I'll admit that I don't always go to the moral leadership classes, or all of the other classes for that matter, but I don't count them towards achievements if i don't attend.

There's actually a really good chance that the cadet staff is actually doing something else or planning while you're in that moral leadership class and you don't know about it.  With the rank comes a lot more responsibility and a little bit of privilege to go along with it.  How can you expect your cadet officers to do 100% of what you do in addition to their other duties such as planning activities, coordinating everything with the senior staff, and probably doing paperwork?

As much time as I spend on CAP during the week, I tend to need a little extra time during the meetings to get everything squared away since everyone is in the same place at once.

[Cobra1597]

Okay, let's blame the cadet staff sergeant then.

I don't think anyone is blaming the C/SSgt. The moral leadership component is supposed to have senior member involvement. The squadron commander may get hit on the SUI for not even having an MLI.

I was made MLI because we don't have anyone in the squadron qualified to be an MLO, let alone a Chaplain, and we needed something. As I understand, that is why MLI was created, for squadrons lacking someone that met the rather difficult requirements of MLO.

I also got hit on our last SUI for something similar to what this cadet's squadron is probably going to get hit for. I was using our sign in as the record of participation for Moral Leadership discussions. Now, I was actively making sure that everyone actually did participate, but the only record of that is my word, which isn't enough. We've now implemented other methods of record keeping to prove participation. Oddly enough our unsatisfactory in ML came not from our record keeping, but from the fact that we did not have a Chaplain or MLO. Go figure.

It should not be hard for his squadron to put up an MLI. It is a one time a month job. Is the C/SSgt to blame? No, but that doesn't mean we can't point out  that there is a problem with the squadron (partly the same problem the cadet is pointing out).

If the facts are being presented accurately, there is a failure of senior leadership (in addition to other things) going on at that unit.

[Cobra1597]

How can you expect your cadet officers to do 100% of what you do in addition to their other duties such as planning activities, coordinating everything with the senior staff, and probably doing paperwork?

Do it between meetings.

[Jolt]

As much time as I spend on CAP during the week, I tend to need a little extra time during the meetings to get everything squared away since everyone is in the same place at once.

[AlaskanCadet]

All great responses, thanks guys(gals).
Also, as an addition to the cadet discipline, forum, what can you do about cadets that do not follow orders. I know pushups are out of the question, but what can you do, extra hard  PT nights?

[Camas]

What can you do about cadets that do not follow orders?

Perhaps documenting the situation by writing up a "memo for file".  Place this memo in his or her file and when the cadet in question comes up for promotion the board members will have this memo to assist them in making a decision as to whether to promote or not.  This is a good case for the use of promotion boards.  It should certainly give the cadet a wakeup call when he or she finds out that their inappropriate action hasn't been forgotten when it's brought up by the board members.  Just a thought.

[Nathan]

Okay, let's blame the cadet staff sergeant then.

I don't think anyone is blaming the C/SSgt. The moral leadership component is supposed to have senior member involvement. The squadron commander may get hit on the SUI for not even having an MLI.

Meh, I was just making the point that exclaiming to this cadet that his squadron is wrong and should be doing things a different way is utterly useless in every way it could be useless. The cadet can't do anything about it, and if he were to go back to his squadron and say, "Hey, a bunch of guys told me on the internet that you all need to be in this meeting, and technically your last four promotions are null," he would most likely end up in a spot none of us want him in.

Just sayin'...

[lordmonar]

All great responses, thanks guys(gals).
Also, as an addition to the cadet discipline, forum, what can you do about cadets that do not follow orders. I know pushups are out of the question, but what can you do, extra hard  PT nights?

No...you can't do any form of PT as punishment.  But if an individual can't or won't follow order you do some counseling, do a Form 50 and withhold a promotion and see if that helps.

Also you can exclude people who are not up to standards from some of the "fun" activities.  There are lots of tools in the tool bag.

[AlaskanCadet]

Thanks
I will see what I can do about this.
All your responses are great, if you think of something else, let me know.

[DC]

As has been stated, you Cadet Staff is probably busy during the classes you mentioned and rank does have it's privleges.

Ways to discipline your cadets, hazing is strictly prohibited this includes any form of PT, or a punishment that does not suit the offense. So if a cadet is being lax in their Customs and Courtesies you could have them practice saluting the inanimate object of your choice, or if their pockets on their BDUs are unbuttoned you can have them button and unbutton the pockets repeatedly. Be creative. Also bear in mind that if your squadron is ingrained in its way this adjustment may come painfully, so be prepeared for it.

[notaNCO forever]

You should confront your DCC about this issue, and you should also try to set the example to younger cadets by not doing anything they can't do. You should have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to problems with leaders slacking off. This will leave a very bad impresion on younger cadets.

[SWASH]

^^^
We have a new SM who will be working with our CP's, and he told me he will be leading by example, along with me (IE wear uniform amazingly sweet, sit through booring classes, do not give yourself any special privliages, ect.)  Try doing this.  Get down and dirty along with your fellow cadets, that way you will earn respect.

[Briski]

Get down and dirty along with your fellow cadets, that way you will earn respect.

You never know when your quiet example of professionalism will inspire your followers to choose to emulate your example when they gain more responsibility and authority, instead of following the poor example set by the current staff.

Maybe you'll never be cadet commander. So what? Think of the big picture. It doesn't mean you can't inspire the next cadet commander -- or the one after, or the one after that -- to a higher standard of leadership.

But make sure that your example is above reproach. Don't let yourself fall into the temptation of badmouthing the cadet staff and undermining their authority in front of the other cadets. It doesn't matter if you disagree with them. Let your actions say what your words do not.

The fact that you have little to no influence over the present says nothing of your incredible potential for influencing the future.


"Do yer duty, at all times, in all things, and years later when ye have looked back, be surprised at those ripples in the pond... that made tsunamis everywhere." - CWO Ian McLaughlin, CF