This board and cadets

[flyguy06]

Why is everyone on this board so anti-military? I mean I joined CAP because it was military but it seems members these days want to train children instreadt of future leaders. If you notice something baout my posts, I NEER refer to cadets as kids. To me kids dont do wnat cadets do. Kids dont go out on SAR missions or fly airplanes.

I guess most senior members are over 50 and to them everyone is a kid

[CAP428]

I'm not sure I understand your question exactly, but I kind of agree with you.

People keep emphasizing how cadets are "just in training."  Training?  Huh?  What?....Training for what?  Last time I checked, I wasn't "training" for anything.

...Unless you mean the course I'm taking to learn to fly and become a mission pilot.  You know, the exact same one senior members take?  Yeah, I guess I am "just in training."

The way I see it, for some senior members, and it seems for a lot of senior members on this board, CAP offers them a way to be "above" someone else, because they don't get that same satisfaction from their $5.15/hr or whatever job theyhave.  CAP gives them a way to tell cadets what to do and belittle them as just "kids playing military" while they're doing the real work....like drinking coffee and waiting for final formation.

Jeesh....

[Pylon]

I don't understand what the purpose of this thread is.

Anti-military sentiments?   Cadets being called kids?  Mocking Senior Members based on how much they make in their day job?   Complaining about anything and everything?   And I'm not quite sure what anything posted in the thread itself has to do with the subject line "This board and cadets."

[lordmonar]

Why is everyone on this board so anti-military? I mean I joined CAP because it was military but it seems members these days want to train children instreadt of future leaders. If you notice something baout my posts, I NEER refer to cadets as kids. To me kids dont do wnat cadets do. Kids dont go out on SAR missions or fly airplanes.

I guess most senior members are over 50 and to them everyone is a kid

What does refering to cadets as kids have to do with being anti-military?

[Chris Jacobs]

I am a cadet.   And while i don't feel that every single senior member in the world respects us the way that they should, i think for the most part senior members put me on the same ball Field as other senior members.  But Fly Guy and CAP 428 you are just rambling on.  did you guys have a bad meeting tonight.  I am not trying to be offensive but i think you guys are way off in left Field and just ranting.

[lordmonar]

People keep emphasizing how cadets are "just in training."  Training?  Huh?  What?....Training for what?  Last time I checked, I wasn't "training" for anything.

1-1. The Cadet Program's Mission & Goals. The mission of the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program is to provide the youth of our nation with a quality program that enhances their leadership skills through an interest in aviation, and simultaneously provide service to the United States Air Force and the local community.

The rest of your post...I'll just ignore.

[flyguy06]

Why is everyone on this board so anti-military? I mean I joined CAP because it was military but it seems members these days want to train children instreadt of future leaders. If you notice something baout my posts, I NEER refer to cadets as kids. To me kids dont do wnat cadets do. Kids dont go out on SAR missions or fly airplanes.

I guess most senior members are over 50 and to them everyone is a kid

What does refering to cadets as kids have to do with being anti-military?

Nothing. They were two seperate issues.

[flyguy06]

I do respect cadets. I used to be one not that long ago. I dont work with cadets casue I am some power trip. I command real soldiers inthe real military. In my civilian jjob I have the power to take away a persons constitutional rights if they violate the law. SO, I dont need to be in CAP to exert any authority. I do it very well daily.

I am in CAP to teach leadership. To pass on knowledge, skills and abilities that I have learned the lasst 15 years of my life. We al have a place in life. When I was a private, I had a place in life. I was probably smarter than my Sergeants but I never disrespected them cbecause i respected their athority over me and I wasnt arrogant. WHen I was a police recruit I had a place. I  respected my supervisors eventhough I had probably seen war fighting and shooting in Baghdad than they have on the streets. I was their to  learn from them.

Same goes with CAP. Cadets havae a place and Senior members have a plcae. I never said ne ws better than the other or that we should look down on cadets. But cadets have a place. They are trainees. You train every week you go to a meeting. You are training to be aleader. Ang you never rech the point wher eyou have learned it all and need no further training. Heck, I still need training. You never stop learning and training I dont care what your position or education level or how many ES badges you have on your uniform.

Respect is earned. Authority s granted.

The ONLY purpose of this post was becuse I was seeing a ot of comments on this board that suggested getting away from the military environment and more towards a Boy Scout type organzation and so I posed the question why are people on THIS board against having CAP be a military type program. Thats all.

[Smitty]

I dont care what your position or education level or how many ES badges you have on your uniform.

Respect is earned. Authority s granted.

That is very true but in my experience in CAP, members that believe and understand that are the exception and not the norm.

The ONLY purpose of this post was because I was seeing a lot of comments on this board that suggested getting away from the military environment and more towards a Boy Scout type organization and so I posed the question why are people on THIS board against having CAP be a military type program. Thats all.

I have seen a lot of things that go in the other direction when it comes to the senior program but not to much when it comes to the cadet program.  I agree that the program that exists today is very different from the program that existed 5 years ago when I was a cadet.  The edge was taken from it even before I came into the program but it was stomped out of it over the past 5 years. 

All I can say is that if they simply want a boyscout type of environment the program will not be around for very long, the Sea Cadets and the ACA offer much more military like programs than CAP and I find it suprising that so few CAP cadets don't just leave to do those programs.

[MIKE]

All I can say is that if they simply want a boyscout type of environment the program will not be around for very long, the Sea Cadets and the ACA offer much more military like programs than CAP and I find it suprising that so few CAP cadets don't just leave to do those programs.

I attempted to join the NSCC back when I was a C/A1C... IIRC they couldn't waive the PFT like CAP does.  They did say I might be able to join as a MIDN when I turned 18 though...

[DNall]

All I can say is that if they simply want a boyscout type of environment the program will not be around for very long, the Sea Cadets and the ACA offer much more military like programs than CAP and I find it suprising that so few CAP cadets don't just leave to do those programs.

Hey how's it goin...

Yeah ACA does a real good job. They're also real small & mostly limited to the coasts & a few limited locations. They are trying to spread out & more power to them. Personally I hope CAP sees that as a threat and takes it as motivation to get our act a bit more in gear. CAP has some big key advantages though... we're all over, govt funded, got 500 planes with paid o-flts & some reasonablly priced flight training opportuntiies. We also do ES, which gets kids in the field on real world missions pretty fast (we'll see how that's effected by NIMS induced changes over the next 5 years or so). Plus that means we have a lot of adults involved in the program that may not be there for cadets, but they end up supporting them with facilities, infrastructure, & resources anyway. If you took what CAP has going for it & put a more ACA type program on top of it, man we'd be turning out a quality product & driving participation way up.

I do worry that CAP has lost its way a bit w/ cadet programs. I'm very disappointed with some of the stuff I see taught around here & the attitudes of some officers. There's problems with upper level cadets as well. Too many of them think they know everything & don't require anything but a babysitter to stay in regs, think they don't have anything left to learn, and in trying to take charge of the world tend to make a mess of things & not train anyone up behind them. CAP's got lots of problems, & CP is one that needs some hard work, but we got too much going for us to fail.

[carnold1836]

I do worry that CAP has lost its way a bit w/ cadet programs. I'm very disappointed with some of the stuff I see taught around here & the attitudes of some officers. There's problems with upper level cadets as well. Too many of them think they know everything & don't require anything but a babysitter to stay in regs, think they don't have anything left to learn, and in trying to take charge of the world tend to make a mess of things & not train anyone up behind them. CAP's got lots of problems, & CP is one that needs some hard work, but we got too much going for us to fail.

Dennis you are so correct in this post. I have seen several of my "senior" cadets go the route of "what is in it for me" and really mess things up. I am currently working with my DCC to get that turned around and have a more "what can I offer to my unit" attitude. I currently have 4 cadet officers that are doing a great job with this direction.

Something else we are working on with both cadets AND senior officers is the following philosophy -

Always be TEACHING your job to the person behind you,
Always be LEARNING the job from the person in front of you.

[Eclipse]

I'm not sure I understand your question exactly, but I kind of agree with you.

People keep emphasizing how cadets are "just in training."  Training?  Huh?  What?....Training for what?  Last time I checked, I wasn't "training" for anything.

...Unless you mean the course I'm taking to learn to fly and become a mission pilot.  You know, the exact same one senior members take?  Yeah, I guess I am "just in training."

The way I see it, for some senior members, and it seems for a lot of senior members on this board, CAP offers them a way to be "above" someone else, because they don't get that same satisfaction from their $5.15/hr or whatever job theyhave.  CAP gives them a way to tell cadets what to do and belittle them as just "kids playing military" while they're doing the real work....like drinking coffee and waiting for final formation.

Jeesh....

Kids, can't live with 'em, can't leave by the curb when you're done with them.

I'm sure all those fat, lazy, minimum-wage seniors, who are taking time out of their lives to let you have a program, would appreciate the attitude.

BTW - you're welcome.