Cadetting, ACA, CAP and other

Started by BillB, December 24, 2006, 12:19:57 AM

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BillB

American Cadet Alliance has a survey that is of value to CAP. Check it out.
http://www.surveymonkey.com/DisplaySummary.asp?SID=2538864&U=253886462620ck it out.


Does this indicate the cadet program is headingin the wrong direction?
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

MIKE

I checked out the survey results as posted over on CS earlier today.  Definitely worth taking a look at.

When you say heading in the wrong direction do you mean demilitarizing the Cadet Program, or am I not reading you correctly?
Mike Johnston

Monty

Interesting........when did the act of being a cadet in a military-esque program become personified as a verb?

ACA thang or what?

AlphaSigOU

Quote from: msmjr2003 on December 24, 2006, 01:33:20 AM
Interesting........when did the act of being a cadet in a military-esque program become personified as a verb?

ACA thang or what?


Methinks it is... never heard it used in CAP circles.
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

Chris Jacobs

Do you have to registar to see the results.
C/1st Lt Chris Jacobs
Columbia Comp. Squadron

MIKE

Mike Johnston

Chris Jacobs

C/1st Lt Chris Jacobs
Columbia Comp. Squadron

CAP428

QuoteQuote from Survey results
CADETS ONLY How much does it cost you - on average - to be a Cadet for a year?

[one person answered:]
$5001-6000


How in the heck does a cadet spend 5-6K in CAP for just one year??

SJFedor

Quote from: CAP428 on December 24, 2006, 06:51:34 AM
QuoteQuote from Survey results
CADETS ONLY How much does it cost you - on average - to be a Cadet for a year?

[one person answered:]
$5001-6000


How in the heck does a cadet spend 5-6K in CAP for just one year??

Flight training leading to their private, instrument, and half of their commercial?

Steven Fedor, NREMT-P
Master Ambulance Driver
Former Capt, MP, MCPE, MO, MS, GTL, and various other 3-and-4 letter combinations
NESA MAS Instructor, 2008-2010 (#479)

Chris Jacobs

I could see some of the cadets that I met this summer spending that much money.  Some were one their third NCSA by the time they got to NBB.  Then add in the regular expenses and you have 5-6K.
C/1st Lt Chris Jacobs
Columbia Comp. Squadron

arajca

Also, some cadets probably have no idea how much money their parents spend for them to participate, and probably guessed. I have seen many young people (and not-so-young) faced with that issue.

fyrfitrmedic

Quote from: Chris Jacobs on December 24, 2006, 04:35:15 PM
I could see some of the cadets that I met this summer spending that much money.  Some were one their third NCSA by the time they got to NBB.  Then add in the regular expenses and you have 5-6K.

I've encountered a few of those over the years who almost literally went from NCSA to NCSA without a break. I wish I'd had that time and available resources WIWAC, lemme tell ya...
MAJ Tony Rowley CAP
Lansdowne PA USA
"The passion of rescue reveals the highest dynamic of the human soul." -- Kurt Hahn

DNall

Quote from: BillB on December 24, 2006, 12:19:57 AM
Does this indicate the cadet program is headingin the wrong direction?

I don't understand, in what way? Programs vary widely at the local level. Cadets come to us with an expecation and desire to be part of a military program. They respond well when treated like young adult airmen & given opportuntites to command troops & get dirty once in a while for real world objectives, especially those handed down by the AF.

When people come in with... for instance the idea that AE is central or that it's presentation is about science camp versus leading to the military... Which then displaces the military nature of the program, then cadets in the long run are not having their expectations met & will leave.

I think the curriculum is bad. I think we need more effort to centralize & standardize to defined acceptable parameters. I think it'd be nice to re-assert the military nature & objective of our tasking. I think it'd be great to push the military aspect up a notch, but understand the limitations in place due to lack of training & standards on the adult side. There's resource limits too, more with staffing than money, but we can always use more stuff. Sure we can be lots better, but I think the baseline keeps us from being too bad w/o seeing the results.

I liked that survey by the way, just maybe not a representative sample. Seems to me though that ACA pushing out a major national program would take a lot a people from CAP.

CAP428

Oh, sure I can see parents spending a lot of money since you factor in stuff like uniforms and encampments and NCSAs and banquets and everything else, I was just under the impression that the question pertained to how much the cadet specifically spent, and I thought that seemed like  a lot.  I mean, I feel like I've spent quite a bit this last year, and I'd say it was only like somewhere between 500 and 1000.  I can't imagine paying 5-6000 for one year.

MIKE

Quote from: DNall on December 24, 2006, 08:03:32 PMWhen people come in with... for instance the idea that AE is central or that it's presentation is about science camp versus leading to the military... Which then displaces the military nature of the program, then cadets in the long run are not having their expectations met & will leave.

Word... But then again, I don't much care for those that try too hard to do the military thing... And fail miserably, because they just don't get it.

I think we could add much more emphasis to marksmanship and some field craft to the military aspect of the programs, much like the ATC does.
Mike Johnston

DNall

Quote from: MIKE on December 24, 2006, 09:37:39 PM
Quote from: DNall on December 24, 2006, 08:03:32 PMWhen people come in with... for instance the idea that AE is central or that it's presentation is about science camp versus leading to the military... Which then displaces the military nature of the program, then cadets in the long run are not having their expectations met & will leave.

Word... But then again, I don't much care for those that try too hard to do the military thing... And fail miserably, because they just don't get it.

I think we could add much more emphasis to marksmanship and some field craft to the military aspect of the programs, much like the ATC does.
I'm with ya. My angle has been on the adult training side, looking at a point between ACA OCS style/system, real AF OTS content melded w/ CAP specific stuff, and national guard OCS format. Therefore the adults involved would "get it." With that in place I think you'd see much more of the kind of activities you suggest.

As a side note, I'd like to go from NRA as the basis of the marksmanship program to the standards for the small-arms expert ribbon. Obviously that'd be an at encampment or as its own special activity thing. Be nice to send kids to basic having already shot expert.

MIKE

Quote from: DNall on December 25, 2006, 07:59:40 AM
As a side note, I'd like to go from NRA as the basis of the marksmanship program to the standards for the small-arms expert ribbon. Obviously that'd be an at encampment or as its own special activity thing. Be nice to send kids to basic having already shot expert.

I agree with moving off the NRA program into something more internal and at least similar to the USAF program.  One thing I might change would be to recognize Marksman and Sharpshooter instead of just Expert... Similar to the Navy and CG... At least for the cadets, maybe seniors shoot Expert to qualify for awards.

Probably want to start on .22LR like the ATC does, and move up to service pistol and service rifle (semi-auto only?).

Now back to the topic.
Mike Johnston

DNall

^ sounds fine.

The only other part of this I'm concerned with, and in conjunciton w/ apparently ACA talking to a few CAP officers about helping get new units up as they try to branch out... looks like they want to take the good aspects fo tehri program & spin them up to CAP scale in conjunciton w/ the Army. Looks like from the results of that survey that they'd take a lot of CAP personnel with them if they can do it. That's bad news for CAP.

I'd like to use that as a basis to advocate for CAP to step up in officer training to the kind of level aCA is on & that I've been advocating, but I don't know if that's why people would cross over - at least the cadet programs officers we're talking about here. It might be that the ES has a strong enough draw, assuming CAP quits moving so corporate. Or maybe people jsut love the Army, I don't know. I'd take note of it if I were CAP though & get my butt in gear. Just an observation.

MIKE

I was thinking about getting involved with the ACA Army Brigade thing... I had heard that a unit was considering forming here in MA, possibly at Devens RFTA... but I didn't pursue it and get involved with the forming of the unit.  I think they ended up in Nashua NH.

If I had pursued it, CAP would probably be on the losing end.
Mike Johnston

RiverAux

Lets face it, a good portion of our cadets are not really interested in the Air Force in the first place.  Sure, the potential pilots are but many are interested in the military in general and would probably defect in a second if they had the chance to join a more "military" organization.  Look at the dramatic growth of the Young Marines.  They only had about 50 units back in 1993 and now have over 300.

It would be very interesting to plot out the location of all JROTC (all types), Young Marines, CAP, ACA, and Sea Cadet units and to see how much they conflict with each other. 

I know it is very hard to recruit cadets from schools with any JROTC units.

The only real advantage we have over other cadet organizations is the potential to do ES work (though the Boy Scouts do have some SAR units).