Honorable Service Award

[tarheel gumby]

Works for me

[jb512]

Well I forgot to add that I am a proponent for getting military ribbons and badges approved for wear on the white shirt as an option as well.  I'll be wearing it someday long down the road and I'll want to bring mine with me too.

[ol'fido]

Well I forgot to add that I am a proponent for getting military ribbons and badges approved for wear on the white shirt as an option as well.  I'll be wearing it someday long down the road and I'll want to bring mine with me too.

Halleluah, brother! :clap: :clap:

[Hawk200]

I would oppose this on the same grounds I oppose giving Medals of Valor or Lifesaving ribbons to CAP members for actions performed while not on CAP duty -- CAP ribbons should recognize CAP actions only. 

Why? There are military awards that recognize actions while not on duty. The decs mentioned are awarded in the same manner.

Second, it is unlikely that anyone would ever get those decorations if limited to "CAP time". Either that, or things would be artificially inflated to justify them.

[RiverAux]

I wouldn't favor military ribbons for actions taken for something not related to duty either. 

By definition any organization is a separate entity and it just makes no sense to give awards for actions taken outside of the context of the organization giving the award.  Once you start down that slippery slope its hard to stop. 

[Hawk200]

I wouldn't favor military ribbons for actions taken for something not related to duty either. 

By definition any organization is a separate entity and it just makes no sense to give awards for actions taken outside of the context of the organization giving the award.  Once you start down that slippery slope its hard to stop. 

Say what? That makes no sense. Off duty actions don't count? When in the Air Force, a lot of off duty actions were accounted for on my performance report. It was the "whole person" concept. One of my decorations is solely for volunteer service outside my normal duties. You telling me that it's worthless? If not, what specifically are you saying?

The military wants to give decs for off duty stuff. It shows that we are still part of our communities, and not a microcosm. Limiting to on duty only is essentially blowing off everything else, giving the impression that only the military counts. Bad way to go when you want the support of the public. How many times have you seen something on the news that a military member did, and a comment is made that "that person should get a medal"?

Out of curiousity, how many decs have you recieved for actions "outside" your duties? Would you have the conviction to decline any referencing something you didn't do at work?

[jb512]

^ +1

[TankerT]

As a person who has served, I really don't see a need for this award.

But, as an FYI - Guard members don't get a DD214 when they separate.  They get an NGB 22. 

So, by not including that, you're eliminating a large number of folks that receive an honorable discharge.

That being said, CAP awards tend to recognize CAP achievement and service.  I personally don't care for this suggestion, as it creates the "haves" and the "have nots" in a sense.  Sure, we have it in the blues category, but, why further it?

[PaulR]

I think that it is a GREAT idea, if the veteran is given the option to either wear the CAP ribbon or their military ribbons. 


Great gesture for those who use the Corporate Uniform. 

A sort of "Hindenburg Cross" award!  Nice concept!

[arajca]

As a person who has served, I really don't see a need for this award.

But, as an FYI - Guard members don't get a DD214 when they separate.  They get an NGB 22. 

So, by not including that, you're eliminating a large number of folks that receive an honorable discharge.

I was not aware of that, but adding it is a minor change. If you read the description, I expressly included National Guard.

That being said, CAP awards tend to recognize CAP achievement and service.  I personally don't care for this suggestion, as it creates the "haves" and the "have nots" in a sense.  Sure, we have it in the blues category, but, why further it?

Every badge, ribbon, wing, etc, creates the "haves" and "have nots". Grade included. Should we ditch all of it?

I think that it is a GREAT idea, if the veteran is given the option to either wear the CAP ribbon or their military ribbons. 


Great gesture for those who use the Corporate Uniform. 

A sort of "Hindenburg Cross" award!  Nice concept!

As written, the veteran makes the decision. They would wear EITHER their military ribbons OR the HMSA, not both.

A caveat, if wear of military awards was to be authorized on the corporate uniforms, I'd happily make this proposal go away.

[RiverAux]

Out of curiousity, how many decs have you recieved for actions "outside" your duties? Would you have the conviction to decline any referencing something you didn't do at work?

None.  I think in the second question you're asking if I would turn down a CAP decoration for something done outside of CAP?  Well, I haven't had that opportunity, but I have done at least one thing in my real job that would probably qualify for a CAP Lifesaving Award and maybe a a Medal of Valor (given the apparent standards they use), but I never brought it to the attention of CAP so that I could get something.  And we've heard more than a few members on this board whose real jobs would probably qualify them for several CAP Lifesaving Awards a week.  Should they put in for them? 

[jb512]

And we've heard more than a few members on this board whose real jobs would probably qualify them for several CAP Lifesaving Awards a week.  Should they put in for them? 

Common sense would answer "no".  Unfortuately people who are involved in professions where they save lives on a regular basis aren't what the spirit of the lifesaving award is about.  It would be an act outside of the norm.

[RiverAux]

Common sense would say that an organization gives awards to its members for activities the members perform on behalf of that organization and if that member belongs to other groups, let them worry about giving that person awards for stuff they do for them.

Heck, if I don't even have to be on CAP time to earn a CAP ribbon, there isn't really any reason to restrict what ribbons CAP members can wear to ones awarded by military services (or authorized by them).  Why not let police and firefighters wear their ribbons on CAP uniform?  Heck, lets make a Police Service ribbon for wear on the CAP uniform.  Are you a doctor?  Lets have a Medical Service ribbon. 

[arajca]

Common sense would say that an organization gives awards to its members for activities the members perform on behalf of that organization and if that member belongs to other groups, let them worry about giving that person awards for stuff they do for them.

Heck, if I don't even have to be on CAP time to earn a CAP ribbon, there isn't really any reason to restrict what ribbons CAP members can wear to ones awarded by military services (or authorized by them).  Why not let police and firefighters wear their ribbons on CAP uniform?  Heck, lets make a Police Service ribbon for wear on the CAP uniform.  Are you a doctor?  Lets have a Medical Service ribbon. 

Where are my chest waders - it's getting deep around here.


CAPHistorian, given the attitudes of some of the members here, I am starting to wish you hadn't brought it up.

I'm through here.

Lock please...

[jb512]

Common sense would say that an organization gives awards to its members for activities the members perform on behalf of that organization and if that member belongs to other groups, let them worry about giving that person awards for stuff they do for them.

Heck, if I don't even have to be on CAP time to earn a CAP ribbon, there isn't really any reason to restrict what ribbons CAP members can wear to ones awarded by military services (or authorized by them).  Why not let police and firefighters wear their ribbons on CAP uniform?  Heck, lets make a Police Service ribbon for wear on the CAP uniform.  Are you a doctor?  Lets have a Medical Service ribbon. 

Again, apply common sense. If a member saves a life outside of a CAP activity under conditions that were not the norm, then CAP has established that we will recognize that member because of the qualities it takes to do that and to show that we appreciate a person of that caliber. We are an auxiliary of a military service so military ribbons and badges have a commonality with our parent organization. We don't perform police or fire duties nor do we practice medicine so those types of awards would not be applicable.

[jb512]

Common sense would say that an organization gives awards to its members for activities the members perform on behalf of that organization and if that member belongs to other groups, let them worry about giving that person awards for stuff they do for them.

Heck, if I don't even have to be on CAP time to earn a CAP ribbon, there isn't really any reason to restrict what ribbons CAP members can wear to ones awarded by military services (or authorized by them).  Why not let police and firefighters wear their ribbons on CAP uniform?  Heck, lets make a Police Service ribbon for wear on the CAP uniform.  Are you a doctor?  Lets have a Medical Service ribbon. 

Where are my chest waders - it's getting deep around here.


CAPHistorian, given the attitudes of some of the members here, I am starting to wish you hadn't brought it up.

I'm through here.

Lock please...

We're with ya.

[Hawk200]

Common sense would say that an organization gives awards to its members for activities the members perform on behalf of that organization and if that member belongs to other groups, let them worry about giving that person awards for stuff they do for them.

Heck, if I don't even have to be on CAP time to earn a CAP ribbon, there isn't really any reason to restrict what ribbons CAP members can wear to ones awarded by military services (or authorized by them).  Why not let police and firefighters wear their ribbons on CAP uniform?  Heck, lets make a Police Service ribbon for wear on the CAP uniform.  Are you a doctor?  Lets have a Medical Service ribbon. 

Decorations aren't necessarily awarded for actions on the behalf of the organization. They're to recognize accomplishments, many of which aren't duty related, or are for going "above and beyond". 

Many people have saved lives because of what they have learned in CAP or the military. You're saying that it shouldn't count, even though that's where they learned the values that led them to their actions.

As to other organizations presenting awards,  if it's relevant to them, then yes, let that organization make the awards.  But if there isn't anything such as that for them, then we should recognize it. If I save a fellow soldiers life in some manner that is considered commendable, and I get an award for it, great. Do I think I should get one in CAP as well? No, I don't, and I would decline any such award submitted.

As far as people who save lives regularly, I think awards would be appropriate if it's "over and above", but not for multiple times that relate directly to their job. EMT's and paramedics are trained to deliver life saving care, so I don't consider an award for just doing the job proper. But a paramedic that braves flames, and risks life or limb to save someone is definitely going above and beyond, and deserves to be recognized publicly for their actions.

Most of what this post started on was recognizing military service, which many people here consider commendable. Which is why they wish to honor those who served and aren't permitted to display their service on an alternate uniform. Why is recognizing that so wrong?

[RiverAux]

Why is recognizing that so wrong?

Its not wrong, just unnecessary.  Those who have served in the military are already recognized for that through special promotions and credit for various schools they have completed.  Isn't that enough? 

[Hawk200]

Those who have served in the military are already recognized for that through special promotions and credit for various schools they have completed. 

So now you're telling me that everyone with military time is getting credit for all their service by promotions and school credit. I can tell you that is not accurate in all cases. If there is even a large majority, I invite you to prove it with verifiable facts. I doubt you can.

[PHall]

Those who have served in the military are already recognized for that through special promotions and credit for various schools they have completed. 

So now you're telling me that everyone with military time is getting credit for all their service by promotions and school credit. I can tell you that is not accurate in all cases. If there is even a large majority, I invite you to prove it with verifiable facts. I doubt you can.

What he said...