Honorable Service Award

[James Shaw]

Before you read this post. I am simply putting an idea out there that has been proposed before. This proposal was made by our own Andrew Rajca. In my personal opinion this was a great idea and an honorable design thought. I have had this on my computer for a while. It was sent to me over a year ago but it is still fitting no matter the time. I have decided to post it because of some of the recent posts I have seen. This would be a good way for those who have served in the AD or RES to show that and still be in just about any CAP uniform. Thoughts and feedback welcome.

                                                              ********ORIGINAL PROPOSAL*********


                                                          Proposal for an Honorable Military Service Award


To help recognize the many veterans serving in CAP, I propose CAP create an Honorable Military Service Award. This award would consist of a red, white, and blue ribbon (Vanguard unit number 7846800, ribbon unit 3607) with three levels. A CAP member currently serving would wear the basic ribbon with no device. A CAP member who has been honorably discharged and is no longer serving would wear the ribbon with a silver star, and a CAP member who has retired from the military would wear the ribbon with a gold star. There would also be a miniature medal to accompany this ribbon. Members who have served in multiple services would only wear one ribbon. Military service is considered to be enlisted or officer service in the US Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, or their Reserve or National Guard components. Service in the US Coast Guard would also qualify.

Wear policy for this award would allow veterans to wear it in lieu of their military awards on the AF uniforms, meaning they would wear either their military ribbons or the CAP HMSA, but not both. They could wear it on the CAP uniforms, since military ribbons are prohibited on these uniforms. The ribbon would be worn above the Commander's Commendation and below the Meritorious Service Medal.

The requirement for this award would be either a military id card for currently serving members or a DD214 for discharged and retired members. The award would be approved at the unit level.

The heraldry for the ribbon is the colors represent the American flag, under which all American military personnel service. The "Ruptured Duck" on the coin of the medal is a historic symbol of honorable military service dating back to World War II. The seven sides represent the branches for which service qualifies – Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force, Coast Guard, Reserve, and National Guard.

CAPHISTORIAN*** I would also include NOAA and PHS....my opinion only.

[N Harmon]

So this is a CAP award for service not in CAP?

[capchiro]

I like it and think it would be a great way to recognize the veterans that have served.  Thank you and keep up the great work you are doing.

[James Shaw]

I like it and think it would be a great way to recognize the veterans that have served.  Thank you and keep up the great work you are doing.

I appreciate the sentiment but I did not have anything to do with this it was a member Andrew Rajca. Cant take credit for something I didn't do.

[arajca]

So this is a CAP award for service not in CAP?

Correct.

[Eclipse]

It should come after the comm-comm as do all service decorations.  Its not an award for exemplary performance, etc., simply acknowledgment of some other duty, and its not a military ribbon per se.

It could be the top of the PD rows.

[arajca]

I chose the precedence for a couple of reasons.
1. Military awards have a higher precedence than all CAP awards - including the SMV.
2. I believe it should be higher than the common CAP ribbons/awards.
3. To follow the service award arguement would be to place it below the PD awards, and, it could be argued based on the War Time Service Award, at the bottom of the precedence order.

Again, this is merely my opinion. Caphistorian argued that it should be below all the PD awards.

PS. NOAA and PHS are uniformed services, not military services.

[cnitas]

I like the idea.  Many other organizations have honorable military service awards. 

My only misgiving is that it should be at the bottom of the stack because it is for service outside of CAP.

[arajca]

I like the idea.  Many other organizations have honorable military service awards. 

My only misgiving is that it should be at the bottom of the stack because it is for service outside of CAP.

The same argument could be made for all military awards.

[cnitas]

On a CAP corp uniform, military ribbons are not allowed. 

I am not convinced military awards should be allowed mixed with CAP awards in the first place on any uniform.

I do like the overall concept of a 'military service ribbon'. 

[Always Ready]

I love the idea! This allows our members to be recognized for their military service without having to deal with people throwing a fit over them wearing military ribbons and/or badges. Great compromise!

For those who have served in multiple services, why not add an additional star? For example, Lt Col X retired from the AF, but was also honorably discharged from the Navy. Lt Col X could wear a gold star to represent his service in the AF and wear a silver star next to the gold star for his Naval service. It wouldn't look gawdy and still would recognize their services to our country.

[Ned]

The problem will come with the AF-style uniforms, of course.

For those uniforms, the award would be redundant if the member chooses to wear any of their military awards.  (And every former military member has at least some.)

Unless the member chooses to wear this award in lieu of their military ribbons, it is just another piece of bling on the USAF-style uniforms.

What are the odds that a significant number of members currently wearing military ribbons on their AF-style uniforms will take them all off?

I have my guess.

What do you think?

(And, yes, I understand that this proposal will allow members to wear a military service designator on the corporate uniforms, which is not currently possible.  That is indeed a Good Thing, but it comes at a price -- more arguably useless bling on the AF style uniforms.  Do we want to pay that price?)

Unless the proposal is tied with a change that would forbid military ribbons on the AF-style uniform.  Just imagine the uproar.

[Hawk200]

An interesting idea. Not sure if I like it or not. On the CSU, I guess it would be better than nothing, but there is still the issue of the NLO's remarks. Would he consider a decoration that denotes military service inappropriate? I'd be interested on that answer.

It seems like it reduces all of a veteran's service to a single item. Doesn't tell how they served, only that they did. Maybe at least different ones for different branches. Serving in the Air Force is different than the Army (I've been both), so a single item doesn't quite cover it.

I could agree with a stipulation of "Military awards or Honorable Service award".

[N Harmon]

I don't think I would support this. Not because I don't think veterans should be honored, because I really do. I just think CAP awards should be for service in the CAP. Not only that, I think it could do some harm. Say for example  person A spends 3 years as a uniformed member of NOAA and person B spends 30 years as a uniformed member of CBP. You're going to make it CAP policy that person A rates an "Honorable service award" and person B doesn't? No matter where you draw the line, somebody is going to get left out.

I also think that if this were to come to pass, there would be less justification for getting military awards approved on corporate uniforms. Which is what I really think should happen as there is no good reason for prohibiting them.

I understand I am in the minority here, but nonetheless that is my opinion.

[arajca]

Actually, in your scenario, neither would receive the award. It's for MILITARY service, not uniformed. NOAA is NOT a military service. Nor is CBP.

I wrote the policy to allow for either military awards or the honorable service award on the AF style uniforms, not both. As for getting approval for wearing military awards on the corporate uniforms, I don't see CAP taking the iniative to request authorization. Not to be disheartening about it, but I really don't see it happening.

As for the NLO's opinion, I don't give a rat's behind.

As for the difference in the services, I considered it, but the award would get too confusing, unless a separate award were to be used for each service. Not something I am willing to put forth.

[Always Ready]

+1 for one award for military service not multiple. We don't need multiple ribbons representing the same thing...military service.

As far as people whining complaining about their service to another entity not being recognized but military service being recognized by this award, our organization doesn't recognize your service in the same way that our organization recognizes military service. We have the option to wear military ribbons on AF style uniforms, but on no CAP uniform can you wear ribbons from other entities (i.e. firefighters, police, border patrol, etc.). If you would like such recognition, please send your proposal up the chain of command. This is about the possibility of reducing bling by replacing multiple, optional military service ribbons with a single, optional award to recognize those who served without the heated debate of military bling on CAP uniforms. This way the AF Auxilary still sticks to its roots of recognizing military service, but it also meets the terms of those who feel wearing military ribbons, badges, etc. on our uniforms as inappropriate.

To the NLO (incase this person is reading this): This award has nothing to do with combat, it has to do with honoring the service of those who serve us the most!

</rant>

[N Harmon]

It's for MILITARY service, not uniformed.

Why not call it a "Military Service Award"?

[winterg]

The proposed title is for an "Honorable Military Service Award" as stated in the first post.

[RiverAux]

I would oppose this on the same grounds I oppose giving Medals of Valor or Lifesaving ribbons to CAP members for actions performed while not on CAP duty -- CAP ribbons should recognize CAP actions only. 

[jb512]

I say go for it.  If a military member is unable or chooses not to wear the AF uniform then that would be a good, unoffensive (to those people) way to show their service. 

We're an auxiliary to a military branch so it makes sense.