Should cadets be allowed to conduct SUI interviews

[raivo]

I completely disagree with this statement.   I disagree with the NB's decision to award CP credit for cadet achievement.


I spent 16+ years in school from Kindergarden through highschool and getting my BA.......does this make me qualified to inspect a kindergarten classroom?  Heck no!

As I said before.....I got nothing against cadets being on the team, doing the leg work, and learning how an SUI is done.....but not being the subject matter experts.  Just as no one would ask a High School Senior to be on an accreditation team.

I think we sort of agree, at least partially.

I'm just saying I think it's wrong to dismiss a cadet's input straight away simply because they are not a senior member.

Which probably could have been communicated better in my post, I suppose.

[Ned]

I spent 16+ years in school from Kindergarden through highschool and getting my BA.......does this make me qualified to inspect a kindergarten classroom?  Heck no!

Pat,

Don't sell yourself short.

If the school board gave you a checklist as comprehensive as we give our SUI/CI teams, you could do a bang-up job inspecting a kindergarten class.

1.  Written lesson plans exist?  Check.

2.  Sleeping mats present?  Check.

3.  ADA-accessible bathrooms?  Check.

4.  Milk refrigerated below 40 degrees?  Check.


C'mon Pat, believe in youself!  I know I do.

[CadetProgramGuy]

I spent 16+ years in school from Kindergarden through highschool and getting my BA.......does this make me qualified to inspect a kindergarten classroom?  Heck no!

Pat,

Don't sell yourself short.

If the school board gave you a checklist as comprehensive as we give our SUI/CI teams, you could do a bang-up job inspecting a kindergarten class.

1.  Written lesson plans exist?  Check.

2.  Sleeping mats present?  Check.

3.  ADA-accessible bathrooms?  Check.

4.  Milk refrigerated below 40 degrees?  Check.


C'mon Pat, believe in youself!  I know I do.

Oh come on those checklists are more indepth than that....Look at the CAP version of the Kindergarten inspection....

1.  Written lesson plans exist?  Check. conformed to national department of education guidelines, provide proof of teaching certificate and additional edication credentials

2.  Sleeping mats present?  Check. Plastic covered, wiped with antimicrobial wipes 13 times daily, show proof of cleaning, with monthly steam cleaning.

3.  ADA-accessible bathrooms?  Check. Provide floor plan showing how ADA guidelines were met, also provide inspection team access to all bathrooms in the area to include those not in your immediate area

4.  Milk refrigerated below 40 degrees?  Check.  Provide charting and manufacturers manual on the refrigerator.  Provide emergency plans on how to conduct a "Warm Milk" evacuation to ensure all precious, never misbehaving children do not consume 41 degree milk.

[FARRIER]

I think only experienced members should conduct SUI interviews.

But is silly to think that a 20 year old senior with two years in the program is more qualified to do the interview than a 20 year old cadet officer with 7 years in the program simply because of their membership category.

Talk about insulting . . . .

If it was a TFO or SFO who had been in CAP since they were 13 and transitioned over to the dark side at 18. I see no problem.

[Nathan]

I don't really have a problem with a cadet doing inspection from the point of view that a cadet is "unqualified" or "lacks experience." I do think there are many cadets out there capable of following a checklist, as well as cadets out there who can't even conduct a uniform inspection of a single individual. And, frankly, I think it's the same story with the senior members. It's going to vary as much in the cadet world as it will in the senior world.

Rather, I would think that a cadet should have SOMETHING more important to than to be conducting unit inspections. Even a C/Lt Col  has the primary mission of promoting and continuing to excel in cadet programs, leadership, and so forth. I'm not really sure how conducting a unit inspection is going to help them progress toward that goal more significantly than inspecting a drill team or a barracks would.

So I say no from the basis that a cadet should probably be sharpening a different skill set than inspections as a cadet. When they go senior, they can pursue whatever specialty they want, but as a cadet, I want them focusing as much as possible on completing the program, and I think the inspection skills are developed well enough through other mediums that it would be of little benefit for them to focus on higher level inspections when compared to other things they could be doing at the upper echelons of leadership.

[Spike]

1.  Written lesson plans exist?  Check. conformed to national department of education guidelines, provide proof of teaching certificate and additional edication credentials

You Sir, would fail your inspection.  The word is education, not "edication".   

I know under the Department of Edication, things are tough, but come on! 

[lordmonar]

I spent 16+ years in school from Kindergarden through highschool and getting my BA.......does this make me qualified to inspect a kindergarten classroom?  Heck no!

Pat,

Don't sell yourself short.

If the school board gave you a checklist as comprehensive as we give our SUI/CI teams, you could do a bang-up job inspecting a kindergarten class.

1.  Written lesson plans exist?  Check.

2.  Sleeping mats present?  Check.

3.  ADA-accessible bathrooms?  Check.

4.  Milk refrigerated below 40 degrees?  Check.


C'mon Pat, believe in youself!  I know I do.

Gee....thanks Ned....I feel so much better about myself. 

I take your point and to a degree agree with it.  I know there are lots of cadet who are capable of pulling off an SUI.  Just as there are plenty of Senior Members with less then a year in the program who could do the same.   However the SUI team should be loaded with as many Subject Matter Experts as possible.  There is also the diplomatic/appearance aspect of any inspection team.  The team may be going into a situation where you got 20+ year veterans who simply are going to be stubborn when confronted with the fact they have been doing it wrong.  Adding the fact that a cadet is telling him so is not going to make it easier to effect the needed changes.  I don't see the value in adding a possible roadblock into the process if we can avoid it.

Like I said at the start.  I think it is a good idea to get the older cadets out on the team to observe and help out....but not doing the actual inspections.  (of course the can advise and consult with their team members behind closed doors)  .

[RiverAux]

While having the cadets inspect the senior staff positions obviously makes no sense and may not be within regs anyway, what about putting some of the cadet staff officers through this "fun" process?

Perhaps there should be a version of the SUI for the cadet staff that could take place at the same time?  Probably wouldn't be as paperwork-focused as the rest of the SUI, but having a high ranking cadet from another unit come in and interview some of the cadet staff about what they're doing could help keep the cadets on track, just like the SUI is supposed to keep the senior staff on track. 

After taking a quick look at 20-1, it seems to me that there would potentially be plenty to talk about

No thoughts on this?

[flyboy53]

In a word NO! Not even AE or Cadet Programs...As a former commander, the one thing I got really tired of were cadets that thought they were better then the senior members that commanded them. This idea would be one more nail in the coffin, so to speak. What's next cadet wing commanders? How about cadet generals.

[Ned]

No thoughts on this?

My usual:  A solution in desperate search of a problem.

Cadets already have a "higher echelon" present full time at the unit monitoring their work.  We call them the senior staff.

Also, many wings are challenged as it is to conduct the present SUI schedule without essentially doubling their workload and scope of inspections.

[Nathan]

While having the cadets inspect the senior staff positions obviously makes no sense and may not be within regs anyway, what about putting some of the cadet staff officers through this "fun" process?

Perhaps there should be a version of the SUI for the cadet staff that could take place at the same time?  Probably wouldn't be as paperwork-focused as the rest of the SUI, but having a high ranking cadet from another unit come in and interview some of the cadet staff about what they're doing could help keep the cadets on track, just like the SUI is supposed to keep the senior staff on track. 

After taking a quick look at 20-1, it seems to me that there would potentially be plenty to talk about

No thoughts on this?

Eh... seems redundant to me. No cadet from another squadron, even from Wing HQ, is going to be able to override the squadron commander or DCC. So the progress of the cadet program as perceived by a cadet, however valid or useful, is still going to be entirely at the mercy of the senior leadership. There simply would be no line of authority involved with the inspection. Besides, this is kind of what the CAC is supposed to be for. Case in point, they are an advisory body.

And, like I said earlier, I think cadets get plenty of chances between Phases I-IV to inspect people. I as a cadet inspected cadets in every uniform, inspected four different types of barracks to four different standards, judged two encampment drill competitions, decided who fulfilled criteria for awards, etc. And while it is true that most of this took place after C/Officership, I am not imaging anyone on a cadet inspection team for a unit would be less than a C/Capt...

Cadets get plenty of inspection experience. If it doesn't benefit the unit being inspected (due to lack of authority), and it doesn't benefit the cadet doing the inspection (not really learning any new skills when compared to every other inspection the cadet is likely to do at some point), then I don't really feel like putting a cadet in that oh-so-exciting position is necessary. I'd rather my cadets be doing something more productive with their time than rehashing skills they likely already have.

[RiverAux]

Nathan, I think you misunderstood.  I wasn't suggesting that they do a uniform inspection, but actually inspect the program itself and what the cadet leaders are doing.  Basically a cadet-based version of the SUI. 

There would be just about as much "line of authority" for such a cadet program as there would be with the senior members actually doing the SUI.  Don't see that as an issue.  The cadet doing the inspection would note any violation of the regulations they are tasked with checking compliance on and it would be included in the overall report along with all the others.

[lordmonar]

I think that would be too far.

It would require a new SUI guide...then it would require a cadet on the SUI team.

Like I said...got no problem with a cadet on the team....but not as an "inspector".

[RiverAux]

True.  Someone would need to go through all the appropriate regulations and see exactly what would make sense to include.  May not be enough regulatory requirements that the cadet staff are responsible for for it to be worthwhile. 

I bring it up because we do hear complaints here every now and again about some cadet units being pretty messed up and getting a cadet's eye on them might be helpful in making a real evaluation. 

[flyguy06]

True.  Someone would need to go through all the appropriate regulations and see exactly what would make sense to include.  May not be enough regulatory requirements that the cadet staff are responsible for for it to be worthwhile. 

I bring it up because we do hear complaints here every now and again about some cadet units being pretty messed up and getting a cadet's eye on them might be helpful in making a real evaluation.

How aboutgetting a Cadet Programs officers eye on it instead?

[Major Carrales]

Give an aspiring cadet a shoulder cord and let this cadet serve as a "runner," however, it think it is reasonable to hold the SUI teams to all working CAP Officers.  FOs, TFOs and SFOs may be an exception...they exist, in my observation of things, as members in a "gray area,"  are they cadets of seniors?  I believe they are Senior Members merely held back because someone doesn't want 18 year-old officers.

[davidsinn]

Give an aspiring cadet a shoulder cord and let this cadet serve as a "runner," however, it think it is reasonable to hold the SUI teams to all working CAP Officers.  FOs, TFOs and SFOs may be an exception...they exist, in my observation of things, as members in a "gray area,"  are they cadets of seniors?  I believe they are Senior Members merely held back because someone doesn't want 18 year-old officers.

FOs are seniors because they can be unit commanders.

[ZigZag911]

As a team member, no way.

However, when I had a group some years ago, we would always interview the cadet leadership (C/CC, C/CV/, C/1SGT) as part of the SUI focused on cadet program & activities.

[Eclipse]

As a team member, no way.

However, when I had a group some years ago, we would always interview the cadet leadership (C/CC, C/CV/, C/1SGT) as part of the SUI focused on cadet program & activities.

Really?

Which page or section is that?  What, specifically, did you ask them and where did you note the responses?
I don't recall seeing anywhere in the SUI guide that gives the inspection team carte blanche. 

You ask the questions on the page, note the answers, and take your leave.

[Flying Pig]

I completely had no idea what it took to run a CAP unit when I was a cadet.  I was a C/1Lt., Cadet Commander, and everything below.  There are very few cadets who understand the business side of CAP.  As it should be.  I would have quite if I had to deal with these issues.  On top of that, cadets may be given the job, but they ultimately have no authority or responsibility.  It ALWAYS lands back on the Senior side.