Firearm training

[RRLE]

A rifle is designed with one purpose.  To kill.

That isn't true. A rifle is designed to deliver a bullet to a target. That target could be an inanimate objecte or a living thing. It is the shooter that decides how to use the rifle. Some rifles are designed specifically for target shooting. They would not be any reasonable person's choice to take hunting or as a primary self-defense weapon.

A rfile is a firearm. A weapon is anything that can be used for self-defense, hunting or combat and is not specific to rfiles or firemarms.

I see no problem teaching firearm skills to cadets. As others have posted, I see a 'Disaster of Epic Proportions' if word gets out that CAP is giving weapons training to Cadets - aka minors.

[Thom]

A rifle is designed with one purpose.  To kill.

That isn't true. A rifle is designed to deliver a bullet to a target. That target could be an inanimate objecte or a living thing. It is the shooter that decides how to use the rifle. Some rifles are designed specifically for target shooting. They would not be any reasonable person's choice to take hunting or as a primary self-defense weapon.

A rfile is a firearm. A weapon is anything that can be used for self-defense, hunting or combat and is not specific to rfiles or firemarms.

I see no problem teaching firearm skills to cadets. As others have posted, I see a 'Disaster of Epic Proportions' if word gets out that CAP is giving weapons training to Cadets - aka minors.

I agree, to pretty much all the points made above by RRLE.

In particular, on the subject of the 'Public Perception' of CAP providing training, whether you call it 'Weapons' or 'Firearms' or 'Marksmanship' to minors, I do have to point out:  the various JROTC organizations used to provide this training in the High Schools of America.

Used To.

The overall public acceptance of firearms training of minors has fallen dramatically since Vietnam, and I wouldn't expect it to be a big PR/PA high point for CAP now.

I don't think it ought to be that way, but I am a realist about these matters.

CAP has enough trouble with lack of publicity, and despite what wonks will say, bad publicity is NOT better than no publicity.

Thom Hamilton

[Rotorhead]

I see no problem teaching firearm skills to cadets. As others have posted, I see a 'Disaster of Epic Proportions' if word gets out that CAP is giving weapons training to Cadets - aka minors.

When you substitute a "nice" word for a "realistic" one, that's PC, by definition.

I thought we didn't like political correctness.

[Major Lord]

Like it or not, CAP cadets are Air Force (aux) cadets, they wear the uniforms, they walk-the-walk, they talk the talk. The PC crowd already hates the military. Fortunately though, who gives a rodental gluteus maximus what they think? I think its safe to say that the Cadet program is shrinking, not in part due to the left-handed anti-military sentiments of some adults in CAP. Our lads and laddies did not join CAP because they really, really , love Power Point presentations, they did so because at some level of participation, they want to be members of the brotherhood of arms. If they loath the military, and hate and revile the people who have sworn a holy oath to defend the Constitution, they would be more at home working as a community organizer somewhere.  Most cadets know full-well what the Air Force does for a living ( See; Killing things and blowing ....stuff...up)

This parsing of whether rifles are designed to kill, make holes, or for use as bludgeons is moot. You can use a rifle for any lawful purpose you want, but thats not why military cadet programs teach riflery. Now, not every cadet may wish to be a combatant, and if I have prayers left in me, I would hope that the need for this would never arise again, but if its required, a would rather have the finest young men and women in the free world trained in the use of arms against the day the fecal matter  once again strikes the ventilators.

Major Lord

[Cadet Dan]

 :clap: Sir, those were some wonderful words. As a possible point of interest I have researched the UK's Airforce Cadet pragram on youtube and it seems to me that they do a fair amount of firearms training on their L85's and whatnot. Also, firearm training in CAP would teach firearm safety. If a Cadet stumbled upon a firearm would they know how to handle the situation safely and maturely? I agree that firearms can be used as weapons, but are pocket knives not in the same class? A knife can be useful and teach lessons in survival etc, but if used in such a way it can injure or kill just like a firearm. Just because a pocket knife has the ability to become a weapon, must that meanthat it should not be allowed on ground teams or whenever a knife might be used in CAP? Now if you will take that principle to firearms training. Sure the skills learned can be used to kill, but they also teach attention to detail and safety. Another point of interest, if someone joins the Airforce and enters a postiton nothing to do with small arms, such as aircraft maintnenance or cyber defense ( according to Airforce personel I spoke with ) everyone regardless of their position has to take firearm training and stay current with their marksmanship. Just because a Cadet might not want to join the military doesn't mean that useful skills won't be learned.

[Eclipse]

Also, firearm training in CAP would teach firearm safety. If a Cadet stumbled upon a firearm would they know how to handle the situation safely and maturely?

Which part of "leave it alone and dial 911" is difficult to impart to anyone?

[Thom]

Also, firearm training in CAP would teach firearm safety. If a Cadet stumbled upon a firearm would they know how to handle the situation safely and maturely?

Which part of "leave it alone and dial 911" is difficult to impart to anyone?

It's not that difficult, but it just doesn't get done.  There is a reason that the NRA has to run the Eddie Eagle Safety Programs.

There are parents who won't speak a word about 'sex' to their children, and there are also parents who would never dream of saying the word 'gun' to their children.  Not even to say, as Eclipse put it above: "Leave it alone and dial 911."

So, not difficult, but not something we should assume has been imparted to anyone.

Personally, I'm in favor of making many of these 'common sense, real-life' things mandatory in high school:

How does a Credit Card or Checking Account Work?  (Note: some school systems are already including this...)
How to plan a Budget for a Home
How does one Get a Job?  (Interviewing, dress code, punctuality...)
Firearms Safety
Emergency Preparedness for the Home
etc., etc., etc.

Thom Hamilton

[wuzafuzz]

Also, firearm training in CAP would teach firearm safety. If a Cadet stumbled upon a firearm would they know how to handle the situation safely and maturely?

Which part of "leave it alone and dial 911" is difficult to impart to anyone?

That's fine when it's age appropriate, but at some point people ought to know how to make them safe instead of always relying on "someone else" to take care of things for them.  My kids learned firearms safety pretty early because you just never know what will happen at someone elses house. 

All the efforts in the world to control where your kids go, and who they hang out with, go right out the window when they get wheels or have friends with wheels. 

Firearms training does something else worthy, IMHO:  Done right, it removes the unreasonable fear of guns instilled in many people by the constant media assault portraying firearms and their owners in a negative light.  It's not indoctrination, just exposure to the facts of safe handling and legal considerations.  Everything else is opinion.  Let them decide after that.

[Smithsonia]

I agree with Wuzafuzz;
I think having firearms training is important for Cadets - so that they understand these implements do NOT have power in their lives. These devices are mechanical tools only. My rifles and shotguns can be used on paper targets and never human flesh.

These items are to be treated, not as objects of desire, but as responsibilities in whose care you have been trusted.

What these things can do is big medicine. On the range treat them with respect. In the gun case, forget about them until a rifle match or hunting season. In this way, my sons had control, exercised proper precautions, and never related to them in the prevalent fantasies of Hollywood.

Guns are tools or objects. Never let them be more in a Cadet's (kids) head. Do not make them Taboo. That will make them sexy, forbidden, exciting. I am both a CMP and NRA instructor. There are additional items of self reliance but not germane to the current postings.

[majdomke]

The NRA training course is not mandatory, we do have a couple of other options. The NRA course has little to do with shooting to live, but its good groundwork.

Major Lord

I was referring to the requirements in our SQ and BSA.

[Major Lord]

Roger that. I have no problems with the NRA ( except they are a little soft on gun rights.....) their training curricula is perfect for cadets, and of course, let us not forget the value of NRA bling to be worn on the cadet uniform! I think it would be awesome to have Squadrons competing in three position matches against each other ( maybe we could challenge ACA?)


Major Lord
Remember, when seconds count, 911 is only minutes away!

[Gunner C]

RAISES HAND.

And also have been on the receiving end=NOT FUN

ditto

For me too!  But I don't look at them as having saved my life, the firearms helped me get the job done - destroy the enemy target.  My life was incidental to it.

[Flying Pig]

Roger that. I have no problems with the NRA ( except they are a little soft on gun rights.....) their training curricula is perfect for cadets, and of course, let us not forget the value of NRA bling to be worn on the cadet uniform! I think it would be awesome to have Squadrons competing in three position matches against each other ( maybe we could challenge ACA?)

Major Lord
Remember, when seconds count, 911 is only minutes away!

HAAAAAA...Ive never heard that before :clap:

[majdomke]

Roger that. I have no problems with the NRA ( except they are a little soft on gun rights.....) their training curricula is perfect for cadets, and of course, let us not forget the value of NRA bling to be worn on the cadet uniform! I think it would be awesome to have Squadrons competing in three position matches against each other ( maybe we could challenge ACA?)

We are going to start  competing against 4-H and local JROTC that practices at our range. I'd love to see CAP invited to compete in the CMP nationals against the JROTC crowd.

[Flying Pig]

As long as Marine JROTC isnt there......everyone else might have a shot a second place.

[Spike]

At Encampment is fine.  Provide me the CAP reg that spells out how to conduct rifle/pistol training and I will be the first to start it up as a unit activity!

[davidsinn]

At Encampment is fine.  Provide me the CAP reg that spells out how to conduct rifle/pistol training and I will be the first to start it up as a unit activity!

52-16

1-4. Safety Policies Related To The Cadet Program.
c. Weapons. There will be no firearms, air guns, paint guns or any device that could be used as a weapon at any cadet activity. The only exceptions to this policy are:
(1) Deactivated Firearms. Cadets may use facsimile or deactivated firearms only as part of an honor guard or color guard. A deactivated firearm is one that will prevent the insertion of ammunition or the firing of a weapon. A facsimile is a copy that is not capable of firing ammunition.
(2) Firearm Training. CAP cadets may participate in firearm training if the wing commander approves the training facility and sponsoring personnel or agency in advance and in writing. For additional guidance, see CAPR 900-3, Firearms: Assistance to Law Enforcement Officials. Training must be sponsored and supervised by one of the following:
(a) Qualified military small arms range personnel.
(b) Local law enforcement officers qualified as firearms instructors.
(c) Personnel of the National Rifle Association, National Skeet Shooting Association or Amateur Trap Shooting Association qualified as firearms instructors.

[majdomke]

At Encampment is fine.  Provide me the CAP reg that spells out how to conduct rifle/pistol training and I will be the first to start it up as a unit activity!

There really is none because the regs only give the rules. That was the reason I took the NRA instructor course and then teamed up with a local NRA/CMP club. The club has been instrumental in helping supply the equipment, supplies and even additional instructors to get our program going. It help to look around your area and call local shooting ranges about youth training programs. If you need help, let me know.

[Airrace]

I agree with Wuzafuzz, Smithsonia and a few other that having firearms training is important for Cadets - so they that they understand the basic use and safety procedures in all firearms. Without some sore of supervised training I think we could have more fatilties with firearms then we have now.

[Spike]

At Encampment is fine.  Provide me the CAP reg that spells out how to conduct rifle/pistol training and I will be the first to start it up as a unit activity!

There really is none because the regs only give the rules. That was the reason I took the NRA instructor course and then teamed up with a local NRA/CMP club. The club has been instrumental in helping supply the equipment, supplies and even additional instructors to get our program going. It help to look around your area and call local shooting ranges about youth training programs. If you need help, let me know.

How did that turn out?  Do the Cadets get a patch or certificate from the NRA.  I have to honestly be honest and say that my Cadets would most likely want something in return for doing firearm training/ competitions.

Does anyone else agree with me.....that Cadets like to get rewarded for doing things that (are in themselves) rewards?  Or am I just not understanding Cadets these days??