2009 CAP Homeland Security study bill

Started by RiverAux, March 06, 2009, 05:02:36 PM

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RogueLeader

CAP has saved me too many times to count.  I'm grateful, and I can only do what I can do.  I serve, and that saves me even more. . .
WYWG DP

GRW 3340

Flying Pig


JayT

It's getting deep, but the Government is also not to fund us to provide psychological first aid to wayward cadets or the families of plane crash victems.
"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."

Smithsonia

#23
JThemann;
You are missing the point. Those items are FREE!!!! No one pays for them now. So your sophistry is clear. The main mission of CAP is now SAR. The main mission of CAP was NOT always SAR. Before it was SAR it was things like guarding civilian airports, running buses for military pilots to get to town, filling in at the typing pool and the swimming pool as typists and life-guards. When CAP started the Army/AF weren't sure what to do with us. In Dec. '42 we did our first acclaimed SAR mission... one year after the birth of CAP. In April '43 we got the SAR portfolio (or official sanction for this duty). 16 months after our birth.

What was CAP in the beginning? Planes and Pilots who wanted to help the county. That's the idea the Gill Robb Wilson took forward. That's the thing that Fiorella LaGuardia picked up and took to John Curry. John Curry figured out plenty to do with us and John Curry figured out the SAR portfolio too. BUT not a CAPs First Commander but as AF 2nd Air Force Technical and Training Commander from Denver.

"We are planes and pilots and what can we do for our country?" Only by embracing this simple little phrase will we have a future. By the way, I have to write this down fairly often as you guys seem to think we are only SAR and can make our way in this world only in the SAR realm. WRONG!


Find the next job the country needs and that they'll pay and train us to do... preferably in a plane. We'll be fine.
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

RADIOMAN015

I just don't see CAP getting that much work in the Homeland Security missions area. In my opinion, there are very strong civilian government employees unions, that see volunteer unpaid service, as basically taking away their opportunities for more paid positions, and/or overtime.  >:( CAP is best to stay under the AF umbrella for providing disaster support, in simple roles as photo recon & typical air defense exercises. (or yea, possibly being the local "muscle" for filling sandbags & helping with shelter management)  I think anything else is 'fantasy" thinking among members.

Furthermore (if by chance we do get "some" DHS missions), I also don't believe long term recuring DHS missions (e.g. border patrol) should be done for "free" labor by CAP members.  Disaster Medical Assistance Teams (who are also volunteers), most get paid at the GS9 level or above when activated to support FEMA.   We should be realistic in expecting better reimbursement for our training & volunteer efforts.
RM

RiverAux

Oh, I wouldn't worry too much about this making any significant difference. The original bill was much stronger, got watered down to what we have now and even then couldn't get passsed.  So, this one probably won't go anyplace either. 

Smithsonia

#26
We are qualified to the level that we are trustworthy, organized, equipped, self sufficient, and have already shown a proclivity to learn. The professionals lead... always have... but we've got their 6. Or perhaps better said... we're there to help.

That said, we have pilots that can beat the Air Force flying. Two guys in my squadron won Gunsmoke '81 as National Guard Pilots in A-7s up against F-15s. Great story!

I can beat the Air Force all day in what I do. I know guys that know more about what they do than anyone in the Military will ever know. I teach the military. They pay a lot for my services. They take notes. They look confused and befuddled. Considering I charge the armed services for my services but give it away to CAP -- CAP looks like a good deal to me. I'll bet you it'll look like a good deal to others. How about you. You got something to give the country they'd otherwise have to pay for?
With regards;
ED OBRIEN

flyguy06

Quote from: Gunner C on March 07, 2009, 09:09:33 AM
Quote from: Flying Pig on March 06, 2009, 11:21:20 PM
Our standards are great, as long as we train to them. 
And that's what I was referring to: in my old wing, if you insisted that members actually train to the actual standard, you'd get shouted down.  There's nothing wrong with our standards, there's something wrong with our organizational culture.  It's the culture that keeps us from achieving our potential as an organization.


I agree with Gunner C and Flying Pig,


We have to take an honest look at ourselves and ourlimitations. The other day I was talking to an influential person at Region levelabout flying the G-8 Gippsland. he told me there are specific requirements to get checked out in that plane.Youhave to be a Mission Pilot and be available to go out on "special" missions for days at a time. Now, Most of u have jobs and families and have to pay bills. The only people that can volunteer to make themselves available for an unknown amount of days are retired folks or business owners or independentaly wealthy people. SO, that severely limits people.

We are a SAR organization. But we do have limits. So we need to be careful we dont take on more than we can chew.

And I also agree that the culture of our organization needs to change. I was discussing this at a TLC sesion yesterday.People are always saying that we are very differnt in terms of culture from the SDF. My question is why? Why is the SDF, who are also volunteers more disciplined, more military, and more structured than we are?

RiverAux

CAP as a general rule is already more involved in homeland security issues than most, if not all, SDFs.  Frankly, most of them don't have near the capabilities of CAP in terms of funding, manpower, or equipment so the fact that they are actual military organizations is sort of irrelevant. 

Major Carrales

Quote from: flyguy06 on March 08, 2009, 04:19:58 PMWhy is the SDF, who are also volunteers more disciplined, more military, and more structured than we are?

What does that mean?  More disciplined...military?  You mean standing in formation and polishing boots?  The fact that they swear more? Their uniforms look more like "real ones?"  I would like to read some specifics on this and what that means and how CAP will be improved by that?

Seems like we have a good structure..especially now with NIMS and ICS.
"We have been given the power to change CAP, let's keep the momentum going!"

Major Joe Ely "Sparky" Carrales, CAP
Commander
Coastal Bend Cadet Squadron
SWR-TX-454

wingnut55

"I just don't see CAP getting that much work in the Homeland Security missions area"

Absolutely an uninformed statement!

CAP is flying missions daily for federal and State. many we do not here about on the Blog or NHQ. I have flown many.

We have a serious problem with the amateur status of our security clearances (they fit nowhere in the Federal Security Clearance guidelines)  We need to deal with that.

Archer was designed for HLS, but it has severe  technical deficiencies never corrected, so the HLS agencies use equipment from other contractors. The Archer sits unused, hundreds trained to use it, but only a few dozen are willing to fly.

there are several high priority items that NHQ can do.

1. Create a  reconnaissance and information gathering specialty SQTR. This will include Photo, Video, GPS Tagging, GIS presentation, Real time imaging system. Wing staff level Operation. 100% implementation in 24 months.

2. Security Clearances for operational air crews compliant with DOD contracting specs (CAP is an Official Contractor Corporation). Members can sign a 5 year pay pack clause ( if leaving CAP)

3. Require proficiency evaluations yearly of all aircrew members, Pilot, MO, Scanners. people willing to volunteer to do the time (On call, etc.) free proficiency flights and training.

3. Cut the FAT, we neither use nor need 350 aircraft nation wide. Sell 5 archers to get the other 10 upgraded and working correctly.

5. Eliminate the redundant  or specialties not used, cut the bureaucracy for squadron commanders.

6. Allow the AF reserve officers to fly missions with CAP (if fully qualified to CAP SQTR).

the list goes on.

RiverAux

Please provide some examples of homeland security flight profiles that CAP is unable to fly because of a lack of security clearances?  I'm not being snarky -- I really don't see there being a whole lot of stuff that we could be doing that we're not in this area.   

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: RiverAux on March 08, 2009, 07:27:48 PM
Please provide some examples of homeland security flight profiles that CAP is unable to fly because of a lack of security clearances?  I'm not being snarky -- I really don't see there being a whole lot of stuff that we could be doing that we're not in this area.   

SEW, there are special clearances and not all of us have been cleared.
Another former CAP officer

RiverAux

Having also been a member of the CG Aux when there was a major malfunction based on an mistaken relating to security determinations for a lot of members who actually had no need (causing many members to leave the organization), I'm more than a little skeptical of a need for the sort of general need for them expressed by wingnut.  I'm going to see a demonstrated need for them before I'll support them as a general rule of thumb. 

wingnut55

Why do you people insist the CAP as it exists has no need for a security clearance?

we have one it is called CD qualified or cleared.

This Blog is not a forum to discuss any special activities that we do .


I get really PO ed when members imply CAP is not involved in a number of important tasks that are of HLS, or LE significance, but maybe your just constantly egging people on, stirring the crap.

I have always been aware that within CAP we have several organizations.

1. Those who are general members.
2. Those who can get a Clearance above the general membership.
3. those that actually get involved in missions.
4. those who do Nothing, except pay dues.
5. Those that do only correspondence courses, and pay dues.
6. Those who want to be an Admiral because they only made it to corporal, or the highest rank they made was boy scout third class.

actually some of you are stuck on this blog, it is turning out to be a colossal waste of time .

Thank you, but I hereby resign from the CAP blog. I think i will take one of those CAP correspondence courses to be a CAP admiral.

RiverAux

Quote from: wingnut55 on March 08, 2009, 09:17:59 PM
Why do you people insist the CAP as it exists has no need for a security clearance?

we have one it is called CD qualified or cleared.
Gee, all I asked for was some examples of why the Air Force or CAP would want to spend the large amount of money it would take to do this.  And by the way, the security check we do to perform CD work is not a real security clearance. 

flyguync

#36
Quote from: wingnut55 on March 08, 2009, 09:17:59 PM
6. Those who want to be an Admiral because they only made it to corporal, or the highest rank they made was boy scout third class.

Maybe they should of stayed in scouts a little longer and they would have known there is no 3rd class scout.
Scout, Tenderfoot, 2nd Class, 1st Class, Star, Life, & Eagle

flyguync

Some questions that would need to be answered are whos purvue would we fall under for the clearences; DOJ, DOD, DHS, OPM, etc. A SECRET at DOD dosent get you to much over at DOJ.

Waiting time -  It takes about 2 weeks to do an "average" SSBI but it takes 6+ months more like a year before te review panel can decide on whether or not to grant the clearence.

Cost - @ $4000 for the clearence

How often would it be used vs cost

What true benefit seeing CAP is prohibited from being an intelligence resource.

As a side note with the economy being what it is Im sure people that had decent credit  before probably have a spot or two on there now. Credit kills most applicants for S & T/S.

RiverAux

I think the bigger problem with using CAP more for homeland security purposes are the law enforcement-related restrictions placed upon us.  One possible benefit if this bill were to pass and were the study to be conducted might be some recommendations relating to posse comitatus. 

flyguy06

Quote from: Major Carrales on March 08, 2009, 07:11:18 PM
Quote from: flyguy06 on March 08, 2009, 04:19:58 PMWhy is the SDF, who are also volunteers more disciplined, more military, and more structured than we are?

What does that mean?  More disciplined...military?  You mean standing in formation and polishing boots?  The fact that they swear more? Their uniforms look more like "real ones?"  I would like to read some specifics on this and what that means and how CAP will be improved by that?

Seems like we have a good structure..especially now with NIMS and ICS.

I wasnt referring to ICS or homeland security. Thats not what the SDF is all about.