Flying Club

[Short Field]

It has been funy to see that more people on here think that this was an okay event and very few agree that it needs to be resolved.  I am afraidn CAP as a whole is headed toward deactivation and our SAR turned over the the USCG Aux.  Planes and all.

I just reviewed all the posts and didn't see where anyone said it was an okay event.  You got some discussion about it being a bad flying day - but no one said the person didn't have to do it again and actually pass the Fm 5.  Also no one say it was OK for the non-pilot wing/CC to just sign-off the Fm 5.

If you think the wing IG is covering up the event, submit your complaint directly to National - with names, places, aircraft IDs, and dates.   I have seen complaints sent directly to National that were unsigned and didn't contain much event information.  The complaints were quickly acted upon and the results provided to all the wing members.  The last was just this year accusing a senior wing member of damaging an aircraft.  The IG system does work.  If the wing covers it up, raise it to region, then national.  Do not think for one minute that National Headquarters, the USAF, or the membership at large condones this behavior. 

[Rob Sherlin]

  No, I agree, no one ever said it was an OK event. But, just in my last post, I did say that the said person who failed should be made to do it again.....it's the ONLY right way to do it.

  Sorry...I meant to state that (thought I did)....but, I'm in agreement.....That person should go through a proper check ride and approval, and not be allowed to go any further in any other way.

[Rob Sherlin]

  Sorry...I was going to stay out of this one in the beginning.................

  The person who authorized all this after the "testee" failed should be reported....BOTTOM LINE! The "testee" should be allowed to go through a checkride again with another person if so warrants (if that person claims an "unfair" checkride after so many...then there's something going on, and if that person feels it's necessary, should dispute it). The point here is that someone approved someone after failing a standard. That is wrong! That should be reported!

[Auxpilot]

The way CAP I.G. system is used by those individuals in positions of authority take it as an insult to their leadership skills rather than a tool to identify discrepancies and repair deficiencies. CAP Members are reluctant to file complaints for fear of retaliation/35-3 actions and this prevents the system from working as designed. To often I hear CAP Members say "if it doesn't affect me then I don't care . Allegations like these that are not investigated WILL lead to an accident and potentially loss of life. The chain of events needs to be broken in cases like these. I will give Mr Fedor :clap: on this one.

SPY, you need to report this. You just might save someones life by doing so. :clap:

I can not agree with you more RAZOR.  Fortunatley thi shas been turned into a complaint.  The main purpose of this post was to get folks on a National Level thinking and you hit the problem on the nose, if it does not affect them they don't care and it keeps going.  You also hit it on the nose when you say they IG system does not work.  This incident is already being cleaned away.  Paperwork has already dissappeared.  It has been funy to see that more people on here think that this was an okay event and very few agree that it needs to be resolved.  I am afraidn CAP as a whole is headed toward deactivation and our SAR turned over the the USCG Aux.  Planes and all.

Now that this is an open IG investigation I don't suppose that there is any problem with names and dates being published here. My guess is that there is either a lot more to this story than is being told, or there is some other motive for running this up the flagpole.

[CAP Spy]

The way CAP I.G. system is used by those individuals in positions of authority take it as an insult to their leadership skills rather than a tool to identify discrepancies and repair deficiencies. CAP Members are reluctant to file complaints for fear of retaliation/35-3 actions and this prevents the system from working as designed. To often I hear CAP Members say "if it doesn't affect me then I don't care . Allegations like these that are not investigated WILL lead to an accident and potentially loss of life. The chain of events needs to be broken in cases like these. I will give Mr Fedor :clap: on this one.

SPY, you need to report this. You just might save someones life by doing so. :clap:

I can not agree with you more RAZOR.  Fortunatley thi shas been turned into a complaint.  The main purpose of this post was to get folks on a National Level thinking and you hit the problem on the nose, if it does not affect them they don't care and it keeps going.  You also hit it on the nose when you say they IG system does not work.  This incident is already being cleaned away.  Paperwork has already dissappeared.  It has been funy to see that more people on here think that this was an okay event and very few agree that it needs to be resolved.  I am afraidn CAP as a whole is headed toward deactivation and our SAR turned over the the USCG Aux.  Planes and all.

Now that this is an open IG investigation I don't suppose that there is any problem with names and dates being published here. My guess is that there is either a lot more to this story than is being told, or there is some other motive for running this up the flagpole.

Well there is an official Wing IG inspection going on now and the person who filed the complaint ask that those of us involved to not talk about it any more till the investigation is over.  I will try to post what happens.

[DNall]

It's appropriate that public comment not occur from people that do know, or speculation by those that don't, while an investigation is going on. That only hampers the process. If it is not conducted with integrity or published transparently, then by all means there will be significant further comment.

Events like this compromise the hard work and skill of all our members in & out of the air. It requires swift & decisive action to find the problems & correct them so this kind of thing doesn't happen again.

[Trung Si Ma]

If it is an active investigation you may not talk about it.

From the CAP IG Complaint Investigating Officers Guide (Revision 1, 1 Feb 08) read in script for a taped interview :

"You are requested not to divulge the nature of this investigation or the questions, answers, or discussions included in this interview with anyone except a chaplain or your counsel (if you have one) unless authorized to do so by the Appointing Authority, higher authority, or me.

If anyone should approach you regarding your testimony or the matters discussed here, you are required to report it immediately to me or (state the name of the IG and the Appointing Authority) "

Mods - I believe that this topic should be locked until the investigation is complete.

[bosshawk]

If locked, it may be a long time before you hear anything about the investigation.  I filed an IG complaint in CAWG and it took five months for solution.  Things do not move quickly in CAP.