Hurricanes Hannah and Ike

[cnitas]

DNall, the previous post to yours just said that the NOC did not approve 4 or 5 A-mission requests in the past year alone...even when the asset (CAP Ground Team) is available and ready to deploy.

That effectivly tells the local EM that he/she cannot rely on that resource in local situations, and they will plan accordingly. 

[davidsinn]

You are right until you drop to levels below wing.  Only Wing and higher can commit CAP resources.  Local squadrons should not enter into relationships where they cannot guarantee the allocation of their unit resources in the event they are called in an emergency.  The local authorities do not want to waste time with folks that do not command resources.

You are correct, and I should have emphasized that more.  What I meant to convey is that local units should meet with their local EM and let them know about CAP and our capabilities so that in the event that CAP is needed, the proper requests can be made.     I didn't mean to imply a direct MOU style relationship, but merely that the local EM should know the local CAP folks so that they are a known quantity, even if the requests come from higher up.

And the "waste time" factor varies from EM to EM in my experience.   

Interestingly enough Indiana law requires the Commander or his designee of the local squadron to sit on the County EMA council

IC 10-14-3-17
County emergency management advisory council; local emergency management organizations; power of political subdivisions; public work
     Sec. 17. (a) A political subdivision is:
        (1) within the jurisdiction of; and
        (2) served by;
a department of emergency management or by an interjurisdictional agency responsible for disaster preparedness and coordination of response.
    (b) A county shall:
        (1) maintain a county emergency management advisory council and a county emergency management organization; or
        (2) participate in an interjurisdictional disaster agency that,

except as otherwise provided under this chapter, may have jurisdiction over and serve the entire county.
    (c) The county emergency management advisory council consists of the following individuals or their designees:
        (1) The president of the county executive or, if the county executive does not have a president, a member of the county executive appointed from the membership of the county executive.
        (2) The president of the county fiscal body.
        (3) The mayor of each city located in the county.
        (4) An individual representing the legislative bodies of all towns located in the county.
        (5) Representatives of private and public agencies or organizations that can assist emergency management considered appropriate by the county emergency management advisory council.
        (6) One (1) commander of a local civil air patrol unit in the county or the commander's designee.

Looks like I'll be making a call on the EM for my county and introducing myself on behalf of my commander.

[RiverAux]

The NOC and the AF have been totally and absolutely inconsistent about what missions are "local" and won't get AFAM status and which ones are and will get AFAM status.  How about a situation I am aware of where they refuse AFAM status for a Presidentially-declared disaster because earlier a few flights for the same incident had been done as non-AFAMs?  Explain that one to me. 

[DNall]

DNall, the previous post to yours just said that the NOC did not approve 4 or 5 A-mission requests in the past year alone...even when the asset (CAP Ground Team) is available and ready to deploy.

That effectively tells the local EM that he/she cannot rely on that resource in local situations, and they will plan accordingly. 

There's a couple parts to that...

First, A-missions are not & should not be approved for non-presidentially declared disasters. If it's state declared then the state pays the bills, if it's a local situation then the local EMA pays, otherwise you can get an unfunded C-mission number & do the work. It's fine to push it up & see if higher will pay for it, but don't count on that, and don't be frustrated when they say no.

The mission still absolutely can happen. It's the responsibility of that local liaison to know what level of govt they're dealing with in the request & aid the local EM in making the request correctly to NOC so that it will be approved accordingly. It's also that LO's responsibility to know what resources are accessible at what levels & timeframes. They can't promise anything, but they can know what's out there & talk to the ICP/Wg about availability subject to priorities at higher.

If that LO goes across there playing amateur hour, then yeah you can burn that bridge for a little while. I wouldn't recommend that. I know there's a learning curve for all sides of the scenerio. I recommend the LO make contact, then build up the relationship over time by educating both the EM & Wg thru conducted joint exercises. Do NOT just tell them what we got & wait around for a call. Even if you sell it real well & get those calls, it'll miss the target a lot of times, as ref'd above.

[DNall]

The NOC and the AF have been totally and absolutely inconsistent about what missions are "local" and won't get AFAM status and which ones are and will get AFAM status.  How about a situation I am aware of where they refuse AFAM status for a Presidentially-declared disaster because earlier a few flights for the same incident had been done as non-AFAMs?  Explain that one to me. 

Look at the CAPabilities guide we have for customers. Check out the decision trees toward the back.

If a federal response exists (presidentially declared) then the 1AF makes a call if the missions asked for are necessary to that response & the most efficient way to do it with available resources from all responding agencies, or not.

They may also give you an A number during non-presidentially declared disasters if they feel it's in their lane & proper use of resources. It's their money & their resources. They have every right to decide where & how they will be used, or at very least if they'll pay or be liable for it. 

[RiverAux]

I'm not disputing their right to granting AFAM status, just pointing out that they don't follow their own guidelines very well.  For example, refusing AFAM status for a Presidential disaster.  They approved the mission, but not as AFAM.

[DNall]

Again, being a presidentially declared disaster does not automatically confer AFAM status or approval of all missions/sorties/requests. I hope you'll agree that the federal govt should not pay for absolutely every request that comes across the table. The presidential declaration just gives them the ability to fund missions out of a different pool of money with some more open rules, it doesn't say they have to or should.

We're never going to see all the moving pieces at that level to second guess those calls. All we can do is learn the ropes & help the customers frame the requests in a way that will be more effective.

And, when it's not appropriate to fund as an AFAM, but they think CAP should do the mission with state or corporate funds, they'll say that, which is appropriate. When they don't say that, it's a real good idea to think real hard if we should be doing it or not.

[RiverAux]

While I can understand why the AF makes the calls it makes (most of the time) in regards to when local disasters or SARs get AFAM status, if there is a presidentially declared disaster and we get a properly made request for a mission within our capabilities for which we have resources ready, there is no valid reason that it shouldn't be an AFAM unless it is totally crazy.  But, for example, requests for aerial damage photos durinng a Pres. disaster should always be AFAMs. 

[DNall]

Again, the 1AF/CC determines is it is the best use of resources, if it's the right resource for the job, etc.

If that request comes across & he thinks it'd be better to use an ANG UAV or something to get the level of detail they need than 5 CAP sorties over a day long period, then he gets to make that call. Maybe the state is asking for something that's also useful to other folks, like FEMA or the President, and he wants to cover it all with one sortie rather than dividing efforts.

Or maybe he just doesn't think it's important enough for the feds to pay for. I mean I feel for New Orleans for example, but is the fed govt really responsible for paying for everything just cause it's a major (pres declared) disaster? I think not. The state and local communities bear some responsibility, and they each have a lane of missions they are responsible for doing. If it's out of the federal lane, it should get turned down. If they have time to tell you the state or local govt should be paying that bill, or that the mission should just not be done, is not necessarily required.

[RiverAux]

If can't expect at least a minimum level of consistency in this, we're going to have to stop the minimal efforts we have now to maintain relationships with local and state governments.  If we can't tell them with a fair degree of certainity, when we can and cannot provide them assistance at AF expense, they're going to stop asking pretty soon. 

Sure, its never a guarantee, but if they call us for a totally legit mission on a Presidential disaster and our response is "we'll fly if you pay" when the exact same type of mission request several months earlier was approved as an AFAM even though it wasn't a Pres. disaster, they're just not going to take us seriously.

[Eclipse]

My issue isn't as much who pays, you can always agree to that as part of the mission planning, and some MOU's already accommodate the issue.

My concern is the lack of FECA coverage for my people that would come with A-Status.

Generally if a mission is waiting, we get approval through some channel, but my people should at least be protected if they get hurt throwing sandbags and have to miss work, especially if its a prolonged time.

Heck, some monthly proficiency flying is A-Status, but legit DR isn't?  That's just not right.

At a minimum there should be objective guidelines.

[DNall]

You want to talk about FECA & member protections in general, by all means I think it's jacked up that those even have to be debated. That should be 24/7 coverage, either FECA for AFAM, state alternative for state/local missions, or CAP corporate provided for any other circumstance including not on missions.

[Major Carrales]

You want to talk about FECA & member protections in general, by all means I think it's jacked up that those even have to be debated. That should be 24/7 coverage, either FECA for AFAM, state alternative for state/local missions, or CAP corporate provided for any other circumstance including not on missions.

We moved the Mission Base from Stinson in San Antonio to West Houston, are you there helping?  They have lots to do and need help at mission base.   I know, I was at Stinson from Sunday morning until last night when we transfer the ICP and changed ICs in favor of field operations.

You wanted something to do?  Now's the time, lad!!!

[DNall]

I've been back & forth between CAP & national guard duties since the thing started. I guess I can go back over there. I gotta go to Ellington again too. I guess I can put one of those off till tmrw.

[AlphaSigOU]

Heading down to IWS/KIWS late Friday night... don't know where they'll put me to work at mission base.

[DNall]

I went over there this evening, after I got done working for the guard in the morning, and did nothing. They're flying the sorties. There's a few people running WIMRS, uploading a few photos to WIMRS, and putting data stamps on photos to be flown back to Austin. Otherwise, there's not a lot going on. The flight line folks were overstaffed. Comm wasn't getting a whole ton of use from the truck parked across the way. The biggest need I saw was for aircrew. They have to fly a whole lot of sorties & keep up with crew rest, so they really need more folks then they got. Certainly we're going to need to rotate the base staff along the way, but it's not at all busy like a normal sarex.

[Major Carrales]

I went over there this evening, after I got done working for the guard in the morning, and did nothing. They're flying the sorties. There's a few people running WIMRS, uploading a few photos to WIMRS, and putting data stamps on photos to be flown back to Austin. Otherwise, there's not a lot going on. The flight line folks were overstaffed. Comm wasn't getting a whole ton of use from the truck parked across the way. The biggest need I saw was for aircrew. They have to fly a whole lot of sorties & keep up with crew rest, so they really need more folks then they got. Certainly we're going to need to rotate the base staff along the way, but it's not at all busy like a normal sarex.

Did you meet Lt Col John Barfoot?  He's one of ours.

[DNall]

Didn't but I wasn't really being excessively social.

I was out running a FEMA POD site today. Local media & NHQ PA folks around. Pushed out literally tons of stuff. The ranking cadet there lost everything he owns on Galveston & isn't even allowed back to see the mess. He's sleeping out of his car since the storm, refused to let us put him up anywhere (we ended up forcing him anyway), but he's still out there working all day in the sun helping people not nearly as bad off as he is. That's what volunteer spirit means right there.

[JoeTomasone]

That's what volunteer spirit means right there.

Absolutely.

We should think about a fund for our members who need it.

[Eclipse]

One of the most important intangible benefits of CAP is having something to hold on to in times of crisis,
whether its just being part of the team that is helping, and maybe having a few extra tidbits of information
than the average Joe, or actually rolling up your sleeves and getting involved.

Unlike the millions who do nothing but watch on TV and wait for life to happen, sometimes we get to push back.

After 9/11, most were glued to the tv, while thousands of us were checking into HQ and hundreds were actually
getting involved.

The Challenger, Katrina, the Olympics, and the hundreds of smaller events had us in the fight.

For Ike and Gustav, units all over the country were planning deployments and packing gear.

Altruism aside, without CAP that young man would likely be locked in a hotel somewhere counting ceiling tiles
waiting for the call to go home - not the healthiest place for a kid who has lost everything.